Sorry to hear that gary. If you are letting them dry out between watering's, I doubt that the water crystals would be hurting you. I mixed in some MG moisture control in some of mine and they seem fine. Repotting, if not the problem would set you back even further. The only suggestion I could think of is trying some kind of foliar feed and see if that perks them up in a few days. Hope you find the answer and the cure.

An experienced grower such as yourself is probably guessing correctly, the only difference was your potting soil so therefore, in combination with your normal watering regimen, it is probably to blame.

I've had repots save a lot of vegetable plants over the years, and most of your plants do seem salvage-able. At the very least i would water a tad less, but if it were me, i would put them into new potting soil. I wouldn't shake the roots totally clear, leaving a little of the old soil behind should be fine.

Good luck,

Steve

Raybo and a couple of others have posted in the past about the problems with using the moisture control stuff in containers, especially self-watering containers (I know these aren't). If I recall correctly the issue was as you describe - yellowing of plants and root rot - but don't quote me on that. Never used it personally but as Sherlock Holmes said, once you have eliminated everything else, what remains is the cause no matter how impossible.

Easy way to find out but will cost time - transplant some into something else and see what happens. Results should be noticeable within days.

Sorry to hear about the problems but you still have time before planting out.

Dave

I've commented often against using beer cups or growing plants. You may have got away with using them before but their ability to drain properly depends on too many factors. The good news is that you have them set on a tray that will allow water to drain but in my opinion to have these cups even close to recommended plastic pots, the slits (bottom openings) should be 10% of the base area and extend up the sides at least 1\4".

Don't blame the media; blame the pots.

I also tend to blame the potting soil.
MG potting soilS are basically PEAT MOSS based, which tend to have a high PWT (Perched Water Table).. This means that maybe close to 3 inch at the bottom won't drain. That is significant in a small cup. That high PWT tend to keep the soil above it also too moist fro a longer time.
To make the bad case even worse, MG has added certain material that soaks up a lot of more water, beyond and above the PWT ( Moisture control is really a high moisture retention). .
If you cannot formulate something like 5-1-1 , you can use ProMix.. Kellogg seems to have a better potting mix too. JMO.

Sey

The principle of PWT

I would not argue against anything that was said above. We all have slightly different ways of doing things and different routines so it's really hard to say. I grew mine in solo cups and in MG this year. I have had to water twice a day and still have come home to plants that were wilted down slightly from becoming too dry. A perched water table is not always a bad thing as it will wick back up and keep things moist longer in a dry environment.

They do not look that bad. Agree it is a medium problem. I would replant in promix, put few more holes on the bottom of cups and give folialr feed. Lots of work though. I bet they will recover. My mode of foliar feed has been very helpful for me. http://www.smilinggardener.com/sale/calculator

Gary, how many years have I know you, I just can't remember but it's MANY, and you are one of THE most experienced tomato ( and also rose) growers I know and if you think it's the xstals, then I trust your opinion.

And you wouldn't be the first one to blame them either.

Carolyn, who is once again faced with remembering the name of that sprawling pink rose you sent me as a wee baby, blooms just once a year and is spectacular. And I had perfect memory, ahem, only two years ago, I think.LOL

I am a very experienced grower of hundreds of tomato plants each year. This was the first year I used the Promix moisture pro, and I've got the same problems: wimpy, yellow, weak plants weeks behind where they should be, looks like overwatering. I've been tooling around on the forums looking for others with a similar issue, and all the ones that do have one thing in common, Promix moisture control (as opposed to BX). I had early plants for my greenhouse planting do the same thing, and as soon as I put them into their final production containers with a different media, they took off like a rocket. Like the conservatives say... blame the media!

OK, you guys have sold me, that must be some bad stuff.

Hey, thank you for your helpful comments, not to mention
moral support; I benefited from each one.

It took some time but I popped every plant out of its cup,
enlarged the holes and made slits up the side, and in most cases replaced a
fair amount of the medium below and above the roots, followed by a light foliar
feed of Neptune fish/seaweed emulsion and a bit of Epsom salts. I saw only one case of actual root rot, but much retained (heavy) moisture. So, while I believe the crystals were a big factor, I
don’t think they’re entirely to blame: see Operator Error; in any case, I’m
done with them. As Dave never tires of telling us, though in much politer
terms: “It’s the overwatering, stupid!”

Carolyn: Nice to hear
from you, but so much for my “experience” J There’s always more to
learn—even for an old dog like me—especially from folks like those who
responded to this post. And, yes,I remember the roses very well. They were Lillian Gibsons, prairie hardy and,
as I recall, rooted in 10 days (a record).

Again, thank you all. I'll report back in a week or so with an update.

Gary

Gary, I start my tomatoes in Pro Mix and move them to MG without the water crystals as it has fertilizer so don't have to fertilize them by hand and they don't dry out as quickly as the Pro Mix ones. One year I used the MG with water crystals in my deck container pots and had to re-pot them because they stayed too moist. Other people may have success with it, me, not so much. I expect I was over-watering by not compensating for the extra water holding soil.

Regarding the cup issue: For years I used 4" square pots to re-pot. I've used cups for three years and don't notice any difference in growth. Think I will go back to pots next year as they are more stable. Hate it when a cup tips over and either a stem breaks or the whole plant pops out.

I don't have a green house so they stay under lights in my basement until hardening off.

Hope your plants green up and do well.

I planted five tomatoes in Wall of Waters yesterday just as the storm came in. Got soaked.

With the warm spring, will you plant out early or wait until May 15 or May 31st? I usually wait until the end of the month to plant unprotected tomatoes. Am watching the long term forecast.

Well, it's been more than a "week or so" (plus one year). Last year's crop turned out fine. This time around: I've just potted my seedlings into 4" pots using ProMix (no crystals) and they look pretty good so far. I thought bumping this thread might be of interest to others at this point in the season.

Thanks again, all, for your help last year.

Gary.

Good to hear everything turned out well. Glad you bumped this as I ran a little experiment last year after your post. I had a couple of plants that were getting a little large so I transplanted them into 8 inch pots with pure moisture control. They just sat there looking sad for several weeks while everything else outpaced them. I had some room open up in the garden and I went ahead and stuck them in the ground and they finally took off. I think you had a good intuition into the "root" of the problem. :)

Never purchased the Pro-Mix with moisture crystals but every year for past 8 years I've mixed Agrigel moisture crystals to Pro-Mix BX for final potting and it performs great. Without it my watering time in late spring would be unmanageable.

IMO the Agrigel is the greatest invention since sliced bread. Further, I would Never plant strawberries, raspberries or other bareroot transplant without dipping roots into a soln of Agrigel water first. The differences in transplant response are dramatic.