There are other recent threads on this. Do a search and you'll find a variety of solutions.

Good luck! I hope you find a solution that works for you.

Try this thread

http://ths.gardenweb.com/discussions/3061945/new-ikea-sektion-base-cabinets-and-stone-countertop-install?n=16

I'll be watching responses to this as well. The thread Lily Spider posted is the only one I'm aware of, other than this one. Can anyone else with Sektion cabinets chime in on their experiences with stone counters?

There are a couple of things going on here.

Yes, some stones are more brittle than others and are prone to cracking. Let's assume your fabricator is looking out for you .

But, you might ask him what is supporting that stone over an opening for a dishwasher ??? That's 2 feet of span unsupported.

What species are you looking at ? How thick ?

Ask him to rod the cutouts for the sink and cooktops to add structural integrity to those openings. Steel/metal and stone are actually a very good combo for strength when married together. Every highrise in every city in the world is constructed with metal inside stone or concrete.

Ask him if he thinks the flexural modulus is greater for the Ikea metal cross member or the partical board stretcher found in SieMatic or Poggenpohl cabinets from Germany that cost upwards of $2000 each ?
Hint - it's the metal. And you can bet that the million $$$ homes those german cabinets are going in have granite and marble top and the cabinets weren't modified to support that granite and they haven't failed either.

The fella just needs some education.

Sorry, but hogwash! Look at pictures here. Tons of stone.

Do you really think Ikea would build cabinets that would not be able to handle having one of the most common counter top materials installed on it?

The dishwasher analogy is inappropriate, since it was stated that the sink cutout specifically was the problem. Now, if you cut a big hole above the dishwasher, that would be different.

"Do you really think Ikea would build cabinets that would not be able to handle having one of the most common counter top materials installed on it?"

That's a pretty naive statement. Do you really think McDonald's would sell BigMac's if they weren't good for us?

To the OP, have an in-depth conversation with your fabricator. See if you can come up with a solution, which could be rodding, or choosing another stone, or something else. I'm not familiar with IKEA cabinets or Sektion, but is it possible to replace that metal piece with a hardwood piece?

Yeah I get your point catbuilder, but for the granite to flatout make his statement in not correct either. But you know know what I meant as well.

Sorry cat , but the DW opening is totally appropriate IT"S A TWO FOOT UNSUPPORTED SPAN - which is what qwerty's fabricator is concerned about. SUPPORT or lack of in this case.

Perhaps your hardwood suggestion is naive , maybe even not well thought out. What's species would you suggest ? What is its modulus ? Think it's greater than metal in general ? What about ikea's metal since we're talking specifics here. Wouldn't titanium be better than either from a structural standpoint ? There are many ways to skin a cat.

I'm not sure idiot is warranted here Joseph, at least yet. I think the guy may just be lookin to cover his backside since he hasn't worked with ikea and his reputation is at stake, not the internet collective's.

We still don' know how thick this stuff is , or what species it is - all of which are important to the conversation.

Shame on me for name-calling. I should have said he is old-school. He's used to seeing cabinets waste wood with solid 3/4" backs and tops and bases that go to the floor.

These old-schoolers can be dangerous and wasteful when it comes to rodding countertops too. Engineering and progress are wonderful things no matter if Uncle Guido is rolling over in his grave.

xedos:

According to the Marble Institute of America's Residential Installation Standards, 2cm stone can span two feet between supports and 3cm can span three. See page 3, please.

Although I installed quartz countertops on my Ikea cabinets, Ikea sells this reinforced rail specifically for the sink cabinet:
http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/60284581/

That rail should help relieve your fabricator's concern.

That rail is still very flimsy. I have it installed, but am now worried that my granite due to arrive soon may need better support. I'm not going to sleep well tonight. :(

Just have the openings rodded and sleep better.

We just had granite installed over Sektion. Our installers had only installed Ikea one other time since we are in an area that has no Ikea. They didn't blink an eye or complain about the strength. This is our second Ikea kitchen with granite and have never had a problem.

Thanks everyone for all the comments. I went out in person to talk to the "granite guys" and they came up with a way they would put a reinforced "l" bracket on the sides with the sink that they felt would comfortably support the granite. Ironically, it was an older gentleman, not the younger ones there that felt we could make it work.

Ultimately, I was going with granite because laminate quotes were so high. I finally found someone who gave me a reasonable quote on template, fabrication and install of a custom laminate counter....including one of those new undermount sinks.... that was almost $2k less than the granite. So, we went the laminate route because we are saving so much there. The difference will pay for so many other things in the kitchen.

use plywood under the granite!

probably solved by now, it was a year ago.

I wouldn't call using laminate instead of granite much of a "solution"! Yuck!

We are in Houston and flooded with Harvey like so many. I like the godmorgon cabinets and plan on getting 3 31in to put all side by side to create a long cabinet space. We plan on putting one single piece of quartz to make them look custom with 2 non ikea vessel sinks. Will 3 godmorgon cabinets support a nearly 9ft long piece of a quartz countertop?

yes

I built a 2X4 studded wall at a counter height adjacent to a set of cheap cabinets with just a bit of clearance which took some of the weight off of the marble slab I put on top,15 years later no problems!

"Will 3 godmorgon cabinets support a nearly 9ft long piece of a quartz countertop?"

Yes, and do so without side supports or feet either. No plywood underlayment either.

I have granite in the kitchen on top of Ikea cabinets and no problems with them at all 2 years later. There are 2 long sections with 7ft and 9ft runs both of which have sinks including one with a 36inch cabinet and sink that is so large it barely fits. There is also an island that is roughly 8ftx4.5ft that has cabinets on one side and an overhang on the other for bar stools. The overhang does have iron support bars from a small 2x4 wall under the granite, but if I had put cabinets on both sides I would not have needed that wall. The island also has the granite continuing down in waterfall sides at both ends.

All that said if you go to the local Ikea in here in DFW you'll see lots of examples of them having quartz on their counter tops running spans of 9ft or more that you can buy from them. They used to have granite in the store too, but they stopped a few years ago I suspect because they couldn't compete very well on price with local companies.

I am a fabricator. Over almost 20 years and thousands of jobs I've yet to see cabinets that are inadequate to support the roughly 18 lbs per sq. ft. load of a 3CM granite top (and I've seen some trashy cabinets!). Sink rails can need additional support to prevent cracking if the potential for someone to step on the rail to access the light over the sink is a worry.

You're all wrong . Think about it. The thin strip of metal is not designed to hold the countertop. It only keeps the sides of the cabinet spaced correctly. really? Any of you thought that will hold a spliced piece of granite? Hold it in your hands and it will bend easily. Stay with me folks. The undermount sink acts as a steel beam when properly installed . In order for the Granite to deflect and displace the joint the sink would have to bend . It's rigidity along with the the splice epoxy combine to make the span worthy. But, I have used many other methods to support the span, including notching a piece of mild steel angle into the sides of the sink base to span the gap. Just remember to make it flush with the top of the cabinet. I have been remodeling kitchens and baths for 40 years , and have never had a sink splice fail. But I don't stand on them either. Thanks

Randall:

You are correct that a double bowl sink reinforces a countertop, but only when it's strapped, not clipped, in place. A clipped single bowl offers some reinforcement, but again, not like a strapped sink. It's physics.

What have others done regarding the slight difference in height of the metal joining bars and the actual base cabinet height- about an 1/8” difference on IKEA Sektion cabinets especially with the corner units that are 47” long? Would you suggest adding something to shim up the melamine tops of the cabinets to equal the height of the metal bars? We plan on installing granite.

Photo of metal bars

Shim to flush and caulk the front exposed gap please.

Ikea sells this, which you can attach to the cabinet to bring the height up even with the metal. Or shim, as Joseph said!

https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/fixa-countertop-support-fixture-galvanized-70274628/

Our granite installers used an adhesive that hardened and filled any gaps between the cabinet and the granite. This is the normal adhesive they use to hold the granite in place (some sort of epoxy if I recall correctly) as it addresses any minor variances in the cabinets over a longer distance. This photo was taken last year. Cabinets were installed several years ago when Sektion cabinets first came out. We never had any problems with the cabinets or the granite. Sadly we sold the house last year. :( But always love our Ikea cabinets and would do them again!

IKEA ”fixa” brackets are sold for this.

Thanks everyone- I’ve ordered the fixa strips - for some reason the person from IKEA who helped with the kitchen planner didn’t mention this item!

Hi we have just installed IKEA cabinets and are now faced with how to install the quartzite slab (not quartz which is man-made material but quartzite the natural stone). It’s a leathered black stone with few veins and we were told it appears hard by the fabricator. It‘s 2 cm thick and from Brazil.

Our problem is we want no edging. We like the thin modern look of the natural 3/4” and do not want 1.5” required to hide plywood subtop. We have given thought to thin metal sheet support under all but the fabrication costs were almost as much as the stone and we’d have to be exact with the measurements. Now the fabricator is saying it may be fine just to lay on top of the cabinets with no typeof subtop. Where as before he was insisting we needed something.

Our peninsula will be a 24” dishwasher, 36” sink cabinet (undermount), 36” cabinet with a waterfall down the edge and an 8” island overhang off the back (no support other than the waterfall at end and the wall next to the dishwasher as he plans to sink it into the wall. The stovetop wall has 24" cabinets on either side and will have stone going up the back too.

Does anyone have experience with this?

The cabinet installer currently has the flimsy bracket that came with the cabinets on it. I went to Ikea and bought the SEKTION reinforced ventilated top rail which are stronger but have that lip on them so I can't use them on the front of the drawer cabinets. Should I switch out the flimsy ones for these and perhaps add another support along the middle of the cabinet instead of just the ends? I think the flimsy ones may be OK because it is about weight distribution. My partner thinks different. I also bought the FIXA countertop support and realize if I use that, I can’t add an extra bar in the middle. Any advice on what to install where or anything else I should buy to help our situation.

Any advice appreciated, Joseph Corlett you seem very knowledgable and experienced with IKEA cabinets and stone and would value your input too.

We are torn between the look we want and not wanting this stone to break. We have no kids and are really careful with what we own

Just use the fixa brackets to have more surface that is in contact with the top. We do custom IKEA kitchens (custom doors) and do this all the time with 3/4” material. Even have done 3/4” with over hang although it had waterfall sides so that is much more supported. Here‘s a few we did on IKEA cabinets.

Install the 2cm right on the cabinets. It will be fine. Maybe a cleat on the wall at the dishwasher.

Thanks, you 3 are letting me sleep a little better. We do have a 8”-9” overhang that is about 100” long only supported by the cleat (as joseph mentioned) at one end of the peninsula (dishwasher) and the waterfall at the other. We don’t plan on late night table dancing as we are too tall and would hit the ceiling, but hoping for the best.

Do any of you recommend adding center brackets across the middle where we can ? Or just use the fixa countertop brackets on the sides? bc we can’t do both. By the sounds of it, there is no need to swap out the originals with the SEKTION reinforced ventilated top sturdier rails?

jdesign, your eurofronts are the look we are going for except, we did ikea’s voxtrop beige which I think may soon be discontinued. I put some time into my design trying to make it look as high end as possible on a budget. Our stone is unique so I’m nervous of how to make it work. Yours look like quartz, which I’ve found out for sure can withstand not having any support

A 9" 2cm overhang with a 100" span will sag if not supported. I'd let 1" square tube steel into the tops of the cabinets every 16" and beef up the cabinets to support the steel.

You could add low profile steel brackets but they have to be fastened to something sturdy like a well built “pony” wall in front of the island cabinets which I always do anyway. All plumbing and electrical is run through there.

Thanks, I’ve ordered brackets like that for the desk we have in the far corner and spaced them on the studs to support the stone there. They are 22” long to support 24” desk so hoping that is enough there?

For the peninsula, unfortunately there is no room for a pony wall and we can’t add brackets as there is a dishwasher followed by a 32” under mount sink in a 36” cabinet, so there is no real way to attach it.

I guess we are back to making our original idea of 3/16 steel plate with a plasma cut out for the undermount sink and hole for the faucet cutting it just an inch or so short of the stone for the overhang. If you think that works?

Maybe to save some money we only do it to the peninsula with the overhang as the rest sounds like it shouldn’t need it?

The metal bars of the Ikea cabinets should bring those to cabinets to roughly the same height. I’m not sure why our installer said we no longer need the steel plate everywhere?

If we end up being closer to 7-8” overhang will we need support? Or is it the 9” that triggers it?

Would the weight distribution across the steel plate not be good enough? Here is a picture of peninsula in its current state, between that wall and cabinet would be the dishwasher. The stone would attach to that wall. The fabricator has suggest cutting into drywall to place the stone. From this view 36” cabinet, 36” sink cabinet with 32” under mount sink then dishwasher then wall. No where to attach brackets :( The stone will be on top with a small setting overhang as well as waterfall down this front edge. the back of cabinets will have a voxtorp panel which is 3/4” thick.

How thick are the tubes you are talking about? The other problem is we are a split level so whatever happens under that overhang one would see it from the living room. Hence if a steel plate works it would look good. We would remove metal ikea cross straps and attach plate directly to cabinets

I am not sure if matters, but we were told from a different stone yard in a different city that they tested this stone to have a mohs scale of 9. Their stone looks identical and came in around same time. Of course all stone has week spots. No stone yards in our area test for hardness which blows my mind!

I don’t see a problem. With only an eight or nine inch overhang and a waterfall end, a steel plate epoxied to the stone creating a layer sandwich iI would think is strong enough. It’s not how hard the stone is as much as if it has fissures that will create a weak point. Bonding to a steel substrate helps with that.

Thanks I just did the measurements and to center the countertop on that wall would give us max overhang of 7.75”-8“