Crenda, Turface has a state/province locator - here's Florida.

http://www.turface.com/distributors/state/

I'd like to think that something's near, but I'm sure you'd not need both Turface and pumice in one mix.

cactusmcharris, I feel for Crenda since I'm about 45 minutes from her. There is a baseball field that's less than 15 minutes from me and yet the closest place to buy Turface is about an hour from me (probably an hour and half for Crenda)

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but how I view the mix is:
Bark - holds water (long term)
Pumice - holds water
Turface - holds water (speeds evaporation)
Granite - does't hold water

So here in FL we probably couldn't use Bark, Turface and Pumice all in one mix. I think it would be too water retentive. Again I could be wrong.

Granite holds water on it's surface - not a lot, but perhaps more than you think. Same as perlite, but due to surface geometry perlite may hold more. It's very instructive to take a clear plastic cup or three, poke a hole in the bottom, fill with a single ingredient - granite, turface, pumice, perlite, whatever, saturate it, and see what happens. Having something like a scale around to take objective measurements is helpful but not necessary.

Maybe good news on the Turface front. John Deere Landscaping used to carry the product. They are now Site One - which is why my previous store closed, They are now open again under the new name and they do carry the product. Of course, they are out of stock at the moment.

Nicholas C. - there is a Site One on Enterprise Dr. in Port Charlotte. Maybe you can give them a call and see if they stock it, or if they can order a bag of it for you. The number is 941-235-1586. That's my plan.

What is the difference in Turface MVP and Turface All Sport Pro? Particle size? That may be an issue with Site One.

nomen, we were able to get a large garbage bag of it for around $10 (US) - of course that was 10 years ago....

Nicholas, pumice holds water only a little while. That's why it's the superior product that it is. But you're not wrong - if you want to use pumice, that would be all you need as an inorganic ingredient.

Crenda, I don't see/not familiar with the All Sport Pro you mention, but the MVP is the one you want for the mix.

I didn't see the All Sport Pro on the Turface site, either. That is how it is listed on the Site One website, tho. Need to see it up close and personal!

Thanks for the info everyone. Crenda, I'll try to give them a call tomorrow when I have some time. Thanks for the number.

My pumice is on its way! Should have it by end of week and will post pics for interested parties.

I guess there is a Turface All Sport after all. I found another new Site One store in Fort Myers. They asked how I was going to use it and said to get All Sport (in lieu of MVP that they don't carry) because it has bigger particles that All Sport Pro. He said this is what his wife uses on her succulents. (Of course I have no idea if his wife's plants are thriving, but she is smart enough to be making a gritty mix.)

It was $23 for a 50 lb. bag. Much higher than NAPA, but will be worth it if it works well. I have no idea yet about how much of this bag is fines. This is a handful out of the bag.

My boxes of pumice arrived today from General Pumice Products. I am happy to say the product is as described. I ordered the larger ⅜" pumice; I was undecided as to which to order first...3/16" or ⅜". Now that I can see the product up close and personal, I will order the smaller size, also.

The product arrived in two medium flat rate boxes.

Prior to opening the containers, I weighed each and found they were a few ounces light.

Upon opening the boxes, I found the product in heavy plastic bags.

I found almost no fines and the pumice is dry as advertised.

Here is the actual weight of the product without the USPS Priority box.

Other than being a few ounces light, I would order from them again. I am going to place another order for the ⅜" size today.

Thanks for the review Howard!

I ordered 2 sizes ytd.. 1/8 and 3/16. Will share mine when they arrive.

Thanks for the update Howard. I might place an order after I finish using up my current supply. $20 for a 15lb bag, with shipping included, and minimal amount of fines sounds pretty good!

Howard,

How much per box, please? $20?

Jeff, yes, $20.00 USD for a bag as shown above. There is a minimal discount for ordering more than one bag of the SAME size but no discount when ordering different size bags. So as Bernard stated he ordered a bag of ⅛" and one of 3/16", he paid $20.00 per bag while I paid $37.00 for both of mine. Also, I just measured the volume of product at roughly 3.4 gal. and not the 4 gal. stated by GPP.

Howard, thanks!

I'm very impressed that your initial estimate of 3.4 gallons for 15 pounds was more accurate than General Pumices :) (though, they were short on weight). Does seem the best choice of easily available pumice choice for those who can't procure locally.

It's more expensive by volume than reptibark ($3-4/gallon in the 6 gallon size, depending on sales) which I swore was way too expensive to really use though I've bought plenty of it. But I guess pumice has both mystique and desirable properties. I did order a bag.

Daniel

Daniel, who/what is "reptibark? Is this something local to you or online? What is the product they sell?

Reptibark is the name of fir bark for pet reptiles. Many pet stores sell it and some of us use it in our gritty mix. Chunks are a a little bigger than ideal, but I have used it right out of the bag.

So it is similar to the New Zealand bark I use in my mix.

Sure looks like it, bikerdoc. Reptibark (by Zoo Med) runs about 7-8 bucks for 8 quarts. I look for the special bags with 2 free quarts for the same price.

Yours looks like pine based bark. This is a harder less water absorbent material from New Zealand usually used for orchids. ½ cubic foot weighing 12 lbs is $18.00 retail.

Reptibark is labelled as being fir bark. I have used it in the past but it is too expensive here to use much, also the chunks tend to be too large in my experience

I think what is usually sourced from NZ for orchids is pine bark (orchiata for example), which is what Howard's looks like to me due to the darker color (but could be lighting).

Reptibark is fir bark (pictured by crenda, and, trust me, that looks like fir bark), where about half of each bag (in my experience anyway) is of correct size for classic al's gritty mix (1/8" - 1/4"). The remaining pieces can be for another container mix - 5-1-1 (bark/perlite/peat) - so it's not that wasteful.

It has relatively few fines or pieces smaller than 1/8". It is readily available in petstores and online everywhere, which is why it is popular. I wouldn't use it (or any bark really) in al's gritty mix without screening, but some people have reported good experiences doing so.

On sale it've gotten it at $16 / 24 quart bag in local petstores, and amazon has had same size for $17.99 with prime shipping at times, but not recently.

Also, that orchid bark is twice the price of reptibark - the 24 quart bag is something like .94 cubic feet.

but really it has little to do with pumice, didn't mean to derail.

Not derailed as it was my question because I had no idea what reptibark was. And you are correct. What I use is Orchiata® Brand New Zealand Pinus radiata. I get it from my orchid vendor for working the orchid shows.

2.25 inch TC pot view 100 % turface pot 9 months later

treated under the same day to day cultivating conditions as a pot holding a lithops with out a lithops

Company review question for Bikerdoc. On a 1 - 10 scale........ satisfied ?

nomen, we were able to get a large garbage bag of it for around $10 (US) - of course that was 10 years ago....

10 yrs later & you finally tell us LOL , and I though I was a hoarder.

if anyone is looking for bark fines on a budget ?

A 3.5 cubic yard bag from Agway yielding a low % of sapwood thin enough for easy hand breaking even easier after warm water soaking Cost per bag from Agway Each Agway varies some will have it some wont others will offer close to the same some may even offer bark mulch fines to be better than what you see. Can't remember exact cost but was less than 10.00 per bag.

I bought a bag of that agway bark for $4.95 myself, but the bag I got was very composted, with a lot of fines and a lot of pieces > 1/2". Also quite a bit of sapwood - more than I could easily pick out - I didn't like it very much. Perhaps I got an old or bad bag, many people do like using it.

I used the bag for larger pots with perlite added but no peat. It didn't drain that well, or, it held more water than I liked. I did like the price.

Nomen, 100%. I can deal with the minimal short fall on weight and will accept their response why this might happen. For me to receive a product that I can use 'out of the box' is worth so much more than something less costly that I have to sift and wash and end up with 50% less product. I ordered the 3/16" product also and will post pictures of what I have received from internet vendors and GPP's pumice.

To compare an area hydroponics shop/store. A 1 gallon bag of pumice ( from south east and central parts of USA) @ $ 7.00 U S with (0%) no discount for more bags bought has a wide range of sizes in each bagt are unsorted for size and unsifted. IME Finer powders require a triple soak and rinse resulting in apx 75 % of usable product. Bigger pieces over 3/8 are also sorted out most of which can be used as a top dressing. IME after one bag of black gold used ( no offence )A 50 % yield is a bit high but is also very possible if one where to use all of the over 3/8 sized pices in the bag resulting in a yield of 67 % use.

An update. I just received my order of 3/16" pumice from General Pumice Products. I am 110% satisfied with their product. Every bag (3) weighed slightly more than 15 lbs, the product is DRY and there are almost NO FINES! As a comparison: The product on the left is Nature's Footprint Pumice, 5 gal selling on Amazon for $23.75. It is evident the product is still damp after being open to the air for over a month and the significant amount of fines compared to usable pumice for succulents. If you go online and search Amazon for "pumice", you will see a picture of pristine pumice: not what is delivered. This is why they refunded my purchase price. The product on the right is from GPP. I think you would have guessed that on your own! For some of you, there may be less costly or better resources for pumice, but for me there is ONLY ONE place I will purchase pumice in the future! Thank you Lexi and Austin.

Night and day differences between the two of them Looks great Lexi and Austin thanks for the pic demos and feed back Biker

Thanks to both of you! We appreciate your reviews and business! So glad you are pleased with the product and we look forward to providing for you more in the future. Have a merry Christmas all!

A duel thread being crossed linked to each other

http://forums.gardenweb.com/discussions/3563803/pumice-vs-lava-rock?n=4

I commonly reference the three common colors that I have on hand as pumice

The three colors and what they actually are.

White: Pumice

Black: Lava rock

Lighter shade of red: Scoria

Dry stall, also white to my understanding is a highly compacted volcanic ash that tends to be more micro porous than any common color of pumice.

Dry stall unsifted

Dry stall sifted and rinsed with actual yield after soaking rinse and sifting

I need to take pictures, but wanted to provide my feedback on General Pumice 3/16" -

I like to get an idea of actual size of new ingredients so put about a half gallon through both 1/4" and 1/8" screens (while dry, before any attempt at washing).

About 15% is larger (not by much, but does not pass screen) than 1/4", and less than 5% falls through 1/8" screen. So maybe skewed a bit large on size, though quite good as compared to anything I've bough that was supposedly graded to a particular size. Pumice is also challenging to screen, it tends to get stuck in the screen more than even bark. Moving forward I probably won't bother screening this at all.

I also found (this seems to be the case with all pumice) that it really does require some washing. Even after screening completely dry with 1/8" screen, which did remove some dust, washing it in a colander shook out a bunch more dust.

Daniel

Nomen, lava rock = scoria. It comes in both black and red (and maybe other colours).

Daniel, for what it's worth, if you're ordering pumice, don't bother with the 3/16" size - it's too small to be worth the resources to get it to you. If it were available locally, that would be one thing, but as it's not.....get the 3/8" or 1/2".

Jeff, curious as to why you say that. While officially sold by weight, General Pumice is actually sold by volume - whatever they can shove into a flat rate USPS priority mail box. They pretty much said that's what they do above in this thread and it seems true based on both my and howard's observations. It might behoove them to start specifying volume (it's about 3.5 gallons based on dimensions, but the box can distort/stretch a bit, mine was overpacked (thx!), so can hold a bit more) instead of "15 pounds", since selling by volume is more useful for horticultural purposes at least, as we use it by volume (to fill pots of whatever size). And it's same price for same size box of 3/8", 3/16" or 1/8". With larger sizes I figure you get less total pumice by mass, and more air - this is echoed by howard's weighing - the 3/8" bag was a little light, 3/16" bag a little heavy (compared to 15 pounds).

Now, maybe you have reasons why you prefer larger particle sizes other than price - and those I'd find interesting, so please share. So far I'm only growing a few things in pumice, and when using pure pumice, I've been using something that's pretty much 1/12" - 3/8", with a majority around 1/4" for the longest period time so will only comment on that size (not very long - came from one of the many pumice sellers on ebay), washed/screened to remove dust, and it's been working great so far. Seems to me like pure pumice of around 1/8 or 3/16 would be ideal for a bunch of kinds of plants - add granite to taste if too water retentive, turface if not enough. I find particles approaching 3/8" and especially 1/2", if making up most of a pot, too coarse for my tastes/plants/environment.

time will tell....

Daniel

Biker: Am glad to hear you found Pumice w/ which you are happy. I was going to suggest you ask Al (Tapla) if he's got a source as he too lives in Michigan (IIRC).

Lena

This is how I see things with my eyes: GPP sells their product by weight not volume. As they have said somewhere in this thread, some bags will weigh a bit more or less by the fact of how they are filled; they do not just fill a medium sized Flat Rate Priority box and send it out. Again, they try their best to hit their advertised mark of 15 lbs. I don't believe, after reading GPP's post about weight, that particle size has anything to do with the final weight.

Yes, the actual volume is affected by particle size; you may get 3.2 gals of a ⅜" product and 3.4 gals of a 3/16" product.

It was difficult for me to visualize the different available sizes online. Once I had both 3/16" and ⅜" in hand it was easy for me to see which product would best suit my soil desires. Bottom line is we are not putting together something that must have exacting tolerances or it won't work. I would say the ⅜" pumice might be a bit big for my smaller Haworthia, but might work well for larger well rooted plants.

Daniel, in the picture above that I posted (shoveling the pumice) most of that is 3/8" - 1/2", and that's what I have had my greatest plant successes with in San Diego - half pumice of the size specified and half sieved Supersoil potting mix. I also think, also again based on just personal experience, that the larger particles used will resist compaction to a greater degree than if you used smaller particles, particularly if you don't repot often (as I don't - every few years, maybe). It may be as you suggest, but whatever works for you is what you should go with. I'm also writing this from memories nearly a decade old (I haven't used pumice in my mix since 2006 - it's all granite, Turface and sieved potting soil now for me), not that that changes anything really, but it's perhaps clouding my memory of extravagantly-well-grown plants of the past, particularly since I now look out the window at the 5cm of fresh snow we got last night / this morning.

Howard, the 3/8" isn't too large for your Haws, particularly the tuberously-rooted ones. I had a mix of half coir and half pumice that was the bee's knees for them. Again, though, this was in San Diego. I don't know if they'd like that same mix in the GWN.

Howard,

I was reacting to this: "Our product weight always slightly varies because each batch of pumice is slightly different in density. We assure every package has as close to 15lbs. or more as we can physically get into the package without it exploding in transit! :)", which can be interpreted how you like.

But really its a silly discussion to argue over weight/volume like this, and I'm sorry I started it.

The only reason was to point out that you get pretty much the same amount of 3/8, 3/16 or 1/8 pumice for the same amount of money from general pumice - i don't see cost as a reason to choose the size you order from this vendor.

Jeff,

Thanks! that's exactly what I was interested in hearing. I prefer to avoid the soil/organic part, which is why I like smaller pieces, I think. Also, I'm not primarily growing cacti - I only have a single one - mostly succulents and tropicals.

Daniel

Quoted : I was going to suggest you ask Al (Tapla) if he's got a source as he too lives in Michigan (IIRC).

Like other people on the forum I'm certain Al does have a pumice source and is more than welcome to adding his comments to this thread as well.

Quoted : Nomen, lava rock = scoria. It comes in both black and red (and maybe other colours).

Thanks for that correction. Yes indeed I've seen six different colors that aren't mentioned on this thread . Of what I've seen in a multi coloring (minus the whites) was/is only available in ' smaller than a Bonsai Murphy Stone size' per say. While strongly possessing the familiar lava rock/pumice looks I'm thinking at this size(s) they'd be used in part of a 10 - 12 inch pot sized landscape staging. Perhaps some of them include a cavity big enough for a slow growing tiny compliment succulent.

I got a 15 pound bad of pumice from General Pumice Products. Size 3/16. Haven't used it yet, but looks beautiful

Question: I was just reading more about how light weight growstones are. I wonder if that could be the solution for hanging baskets. Gritty mix ingredients are too heavy. Maybe using 2 parts growstones/1 Part pine bark, would make a mix that would allow water to flow freely, but still be lightweight

Just found this cool thread after the bump yesterday. Noted the current price at the GPP website is up by 25-35% from that reported above:

Feb 2016 - $25, $49, $73, $96, $119 for 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 bags respectively. Plus sales tax in the checkout cart - even outside CA.

I think it's worth it

Sounds great being pre-screened. Please let us know how it goes, hellkitchenguy (and bikerdoc).

Also from a pumice-free part of the US, and always interested in learning about new components.

Horti2791, I haven't taken it out of the bag yet, but seems to be good quality without too much fines. I will still wash and sift it, though, because I enjoy the process. Will take a picture of it later.

By the way, the 15 pound bag cost me $25.00. Shipping and delivery is included in that price.

Do as you will, but for me the product works just fine straight out of the bag. I just give the bag a healthy shake and all of the fines settle to the bottom of the bag. As for washing, when you water any dust will wash to the bottom of your pot and there isn't much of that, either so you won't have "mud" at the bottom. Again, if sifting and washing are your thing, have at it.

Biker: it's good to hear you use pumice for it's ease of use. Chances are real high that I would sift it out of the bag prior to use As some areas tend to be a little dusty from time to time in the substrate storage area. I think I should consider rinsing Don't get me wrong though I trust your word biker habits formed from cultivating disciplines are the most difficult habits to break. As I see a head shaking as I type why sift something that doesn't need sifting.

In the past you where using grow stones and had some problems with certain species in your collection.

Asking. A while ago on one thread or another I mentioned you wont over water with pumice. I may have used words to the effect that it will be difficult for ( even you) to over water. In comparison to grow stones is watering just okay ? easier ? more testing for you to determine ?

I find pots 'seem' to dry more quickly using pumice. Pumice 'seems' to weigh slightly more than Growstone®.

There is no question that some dust comes with the GPP product. It will wash out when I water plants so I don't bother to pre-wash. And, yes, we are all creatures of habit and this is good; heads not shaking. I will say the GPP product is significantly better that what I purchased from the Amazon distributer. The product was wet, therefor the weight was inaccurate. After screening you can see the portion of fines (right) from two bags that were supposed to weigh 20 pounds each and there are still some smaller particles in the screened portion. The GPP product I received (5 bags) required no screening.

Just an update for anyone following this thread who has purchased or wants to purchase General Pumice's product we have changed our website domain! It is now www.GeneralPumice.com ! Hope that's helpful!