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viper114

Trees For Very Poor Soil

11 years ago

Can you give a list of some trees that will grow in the worst possible soils (rocky, sandy, little to no organic matter)? I can only think of Pitch pine.

Comments (23)

  • 11 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Eastern Red Cedar (Juniperus virginiana) is something I often see on seaside cliffs. It's in the same league as pitch pine.

    Possibly scrub oak, northern red oak, black oak, black locust and white pine (according to google). Black Locust (Robinia pseudoacacia) is a nitrogen fixer so it can make it's own fertilizer. White pine is pretty tolerant of sandy soils, and spring up everywhere although not the very tops of mountains or seaside cliffs.

  • 11 years ago

    I have got that kind of soil on a large portion of my land so I have got some experience by now. Conifers like pine, spruce, fir and juniper seem to grow best, but they don't produce good organic matter. Broadleaves like many kind of oaks will do good, and so will aspen and larch. Beech, at least the european, will tolerate it. Birch, if you are on high elevation.

  • 11 years ago

    You can add Quercus marilandica. A nature preserve 25 miles from me is 100% sand and the Army corps of engineers in 1927 planted groves of Pinus resinosa, Pinus strobus, and Pinus banksiana. Blackjack oak is everywhere. There's also Quercus rubra and Quercus velutina. I suspect many oaks would grow there.

    There's no question we need to know your location (you should update your profile so you wouldn't have to mess with this anymore; and be specific... not just a zone.)

    Dax

  • 11 years ago

    i dont accept your premise.. sand is just about the best soil to work with.. in regard to trees ... and rocks are just large grained sand.. lol ...


    tell us your soil ... and let us go from there... and where you are.. as noted ...


    also .. i am wondering about your comment of low organic material.. as i grow all mine on glacial sand ...


    i am concerned you are making assumptions ... at the starting point.. perhaps leading us down the wrong path ...


    what trees do you see in the general area ... that is a good key .. to what survives naturally ... in your area


    the most important thing with trees ... is usually drainage .... and frankly.. nothing drains better than rocky sandy soil ... [digging in it.. it a different issue.. lol]


    ken

  • 11 years ago

    Depends on where you live.


  • 11 years ago

    this question is for a friend...he lives near a superfund site that got some really bad soil. In zone 6 PA.

  • 11 years ago

    If the idea is reclamation, I'd start with black locust. If finances are not an issue, then diversity is always good, but the locust is a fast grower that will spread on it's own through root suckers. Plant one and it will multiply exponentially. Black locust is actually a legume. It will take nitrogen from the atmosphere and 'fix' it in the soil, continually benefiting soil nutrition. It's leaves are very small and quickly decompose, increasing organic matter in the substrate. Those small leaves allow dappled sunlight to reach below the canopy. This will encourage a good second-story undergrowth of woodland plants and allowing slow-growth trees like oaks and maples to eventually supplant the locusts.

  • 11 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Black locust is a nitrogen fixer and tough. It is considered an invasive species in places. Where is your friend located? What exactly is the problem with the soil? Are you sure it is sandy and rocky, and not compacted by construction equipment? Any heavy metal contamination? If they did a good job on the superfund site, it may have better soil then some newly constructed housing developments. I understand poplars have been used to clean up superfund sites, while willows, cran apple, redbud, alder and black locust have been used to reclaim mines.

  • 11 years ago

    this question is for a friend...he lives near a superfund site that got some really bad soil. In zone 6 PA.


    Ouch. Call the Extension Agent or a professional. If you are going to save money on cheap land, you have to pay for it elsewhere.



  • 11 years ago

    Since black locust, Robinia pseudoacacia, is a native species it cannot technically be considered invasive. Weedy, yes; messy and suckering, possibly; but not invasive. That term should restricted to non-native or exotic species only.

  • 11 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    Native to *WHERE*. It is native to parts of the United States. It isn't native to Massachusetts and is on the state invasive species list because it is ecologically disruptive in cape cod. It fertilizes the soil so much it allows a number of other invasive species to grow under it. Another reason it really is important to know what part of the country you are in.

    Massachusetts Invasive Species List

  • 11 years ago

    Right^. Whether or not a given species is an exotic invasive rests solely on location. To use this very example, black locust is native in certain sections of southern Wisconsin, but a troublesome invasive in northern parts of this state. Location, location, location!

    That said, if OP is in an area where this species was once a part of the flora, and even if it was not, it may be an excellent choice for mitigating bad situations. This hinges also on whether it can be put back in the bag once its job is done. And that, of course, is a big question mark.

    +om

  • 11 years ago

    ^ but this is on a Superfund site, likely with imported rubble and therefore likely little to no actual, real soil. Best to start with the Extension Agent to get the background on the site, then a professional to mitigate. Some random guy asking his friend for help is likely going to have a lot of false starts, wasting valuable time.


    .02

  • 11 years ago

    You know Dan, your post led me to re-read OP's initial statements, and indeed, this is not one ecological restoration professional talking to another! Point well taken. I suppose the friend is indeed a layman but would like to know more generally about some aspects of the project. Who knows? I do know that any actual EPA Superfund site will indeed be highly engineered! Even just the vegetation part, something a guy like me might get involved with, would make the eye's of more than a couple readers here pop out of their respective sockets.

    In any case, I will maintain, leguminous species like black locust in the N. temperate zone-that's the other "location" involved here, we don't know where this is, do we?-are very often selected for this kind of use. Another genus is Alnus, the alders. Many, many others.

    +oM

  • 11 years ago

    I'm presuming the site has already been cleaned up by the appropriate professionals, and he's just looking for good landscape plants for the location.

  • 11 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    yes the site has been cleaned up but the soil is still crap and trees seem to have a hard time getting established. Also there is an absence of soil microrgansims in this location....a test was done not long ago.

  • 11 years ago
    last modified: 11 years ago

    What trees has he tried? You can buy Mycorrhizal Fungi Products, although the science behind them is shaky. I used Epsoma Bio-Tone at one point. Also, volunteer trees transplanted from an established woodland and potted should come with their own bacteria...if you have a friend with a wooded lot. Oh, and some say adding compost helps.

  • 11 years ago

    Viper, you are indeed wise to be looking into soil microorganisms. This is the key really. Although we don't talk about it much here, the fact is, trees long ago "realized" that it made more sense to let mutualistic fungi do most of the rummaging around in the soil for nutrients, and to then give these fungi photosynthates (carbohydrates) to live on in return. Where such organisms are lacking, tree establishment can be very slow.

    Ed said such science is on shaky ground and he is right, except for this exact situation. In mining tailings piles and other sterile soil situations, mycorrhizal fungal associates have worked and worked well. In fact, this is the one area where real progress has been made.

    I have been a long-time fan of the work of Paul Stamets, he of Fungi Perfecti. I don't know that anyone has done more research into the use of fungi in soil remediation and so on. Maybe look up some of his work as well as his company. Good guy.

    +oM

  • 11 years ago

    if the soil problem is low pH, you could try chestnut

  • 11 years ago

    Hmmm? Chestnut is adapted to deep, rich soils and is, like most trees, at its best in slightly acidic soils. Not at all what I envision this site to consist of, apparently being a brownfield industrial site of some kind. Viper, what more can you tell us about the previous use of this site?

    +om

  • 11 years ago

    Chestnut is growing really well in my thin, poor, sandy soil, about as well as oak and beech.

  • 11 years ago

    http://arri.osmre.gov/AC/OS08.shtm - they are using chestnut a a mine reclamation cover, including in PA. Of course, we don't really know the site characteristics....