Thanks Brad. While I understand that, I have limited space and a limited budget at the moment. This will have to do for winter. Thanks for your critique though.

Deva - thanks for posting your new setup! Keep us in the loop on how it works out and if you have any tips. =)

I found the first couple weeks was the trickiest. Lots of pot shuffling to figure out the best spots.

My plants are still being shuffled around even... it's tricky trying to make space!

Brad - The addition of fans seems to be a fairly big hog on electricity too. One of my larger fans uses around 100W so my bill a bit higher than expected.

Lately I've been turning them down to a lower setting and off at night. It's given me a bigger variation between day/night temperatures (approx. 30C/20C), which might not be a bad thing at all.

Deva, yay on the new set up! Please share with us periodically how your plants are doing. I was thinking of getting the same light set up and would like to hear your thoughts!

Paracelsus- that makes sense about the distance relative to the amount of light a plant gets. Too far and it doesn't help, too close and they roast.

Mayo! Do you find the sunblaster lights produce a lot of heat? The temperature variation is a good thing, and your plant set up sounds mighty warm! Could I get your advice on how to configure a light set up with plants in variable heights. Most of my plants are on the smaller scale but I have a few which are significantly taller- should I keep my lights all one level or tip one side down?...

Minty - All T5HO bulbs/lamps should pretty much have the same efficiency. 54W is essentially the same heat dissipated, regardless of brand.

8x54W = 432W in my loft, which is quite a bit of heat at the highest point of my home. Add in the two fan motors and that is over 500W of heat.

Here are my temperature readings for the past month. The biggest fluctuations are due to changes in outdoor temperature. The smaller differences on the peaks are me trying out different things:

• Lights on all day vs off at noon for 1-2 hours
• Fan on all day vs off at noon for 1-2 hours
• Fan on all night vs fan off at night
• One or two fans running (one directly on plants and other up stairwell to loft)
• Etch.

As for distance from lamps, I increased the height of my growing trays as per plant height. And then for some pots, I raised them as well.

One end of the fixtures is raised slightly higher than the other as well, since my plants keep growing taller. The good thing is that the higher light is encouraging bushier compact growth and restricting vertical growth.

This is my Crassula aborescens, which has grown probably 4 new leaves in the past month:

Mayo, thank you for the detailed readings and temperature graphs! Wow that plant really took off, very tight and compact growth, those lights are doing a great job!

How many degrees on average would you say the lights add with fans or without fans ? That makes sense to elevate the shorter plants instead of being brain dead and tipping lights, that was stupid of me to ask. Also the white rocks on the top of your medium are very aesthetically pleasing, what are they?

Also apologies to the board and ninkasi for hogging this thread, just very curious about grow lights!

Minty, I'm glad you asked these questions, I've been wanting to myself.. I am trying hard to resist grow lights, but they are so tempting right now, heading into a long dark winter.......I saw the Sunblaster fixtures for sale locally the other day, but they were pricey...

Minty - The temperature difference was about 10C between fan and no fan running. This really depends on your room size and airflow within your home.

With some assumptions, you can approximate how much the lights will heat up your space using the formulas: P=U/dT, U=c*p*m*dt.

• Let's assume a hypothetical loft that has a closed door and perfectly insulated.
• My loft volume is 10'x12'x7' = 840 cu ft = 29.78 cu m.
• Heat dissipated = 8*54W + 68W fans = 500W (approx.)
• Time duration, let's say in an hour (3600 seconds).

And the calculation goes as follows:

• U=500W*3600s=1.8MJ
• dt=1.8MJ / (1*1275*29.78 cu m) = 47.4C

Which means in an hour, my ~500W setup would increase the room temperature by almost 50C. That's a lot!! It makes sense because 500W is a fair bit of heat and essentially the same as a 39" electric baseboard heater running at max.

Just imagine a baseboard heater running full blast all day in a closed room... that'll really be something.

Of course, this is a bit crazy because I don't think anybody with a grow room like this would keep the door closed. And in reality, my loft doesn't even have a door and the stairs up are VERY open (5'x10' area completely open). Even without fans, there is a lot of space for air to move around by itself.

The most important realization is that 500W of heat is constantly being generated and ends up circulating around my home.

It's not a very straight answer, but how many fans you need and how effective they are really depends on your house temperature and configuration.

As for the white rocks I'm using for my top dressing and mix, they're a combination of white granite grit and "Crystal Lake Aquarium Substrate" by National Geographic. Thanks for the comments on my C. aborescens!

What a great discussion! Everybody has such beautiful indoor gardens! I live in a townhouse with no yard so have to grow indoors.

Like mayo said, there's really not a lot of science about which spectrum is the best. So it's not worth being torn between different kinds of bulb spectrums. The most important thing is really the intensity / brightness of the light. That is more important than the spectrum.

One thing I do to cool my room in the winter is to:

-run a window fan on exhaust

-stuff an old towel in the grow room central air vent so there's no hot air coming through it

-crack open the other window in the growroom so cold air comes in to keep the temperatures ~78° always

- only run the lights at night when the outside ambient temperature is cool

-the window fan only turns on when it gets too hot, using this thermostat

Take a look on craigslist there's often people selling grow lights at half the price of a hydro stores.

Happy Sunday!

mr seabird

How do you guys water all your plants with these setups? Do you bring each one individually to the sink/tub, or bring a whole tray of plants? Any specific type of sturdy tray that you are using and where did you get them? I recently set up similar lights (based on some of the tips here, thank you!) on a wire shelf/cabinet, and was thinking of placing a tray for water collection on the floor so that I would at least not have to move all the bottom shelf plants, as it is somewhat tedious to fit them back into crowded place with varying sized pots, etc. Currently most have single plastic saucers beneath them which probably also takes up some space.

Also, just to clarify, the fans some use are primarily for cooling the room, correct? Or do they play a role in cooling the plants with fluorescent lights (which I understand don't generate much heat)?

Fans will move air for better circulation, you don't need a strong fan to cool the room. Fluro tubs or CFL bulbs or LED bulbs do not generate much heat.

I have wire mostly shelves to keep plants on, they are on trays and do not carry them to the sink I would take me whole day :) I use some shoe trays that many plants fit on. Very few have their own saucers.

You could probably buy sturdy trays, not sure where and do not know price.

Thanks Rina. Doesn't a lot of water accumulate in the tray if you water sufficiently with a gritty mix?

If you use standard pot sizes, you can buy grower trays that fit them perfectly. I'm considering this for my plants but haven't gotten to try it out yet.

Fans help me keep my loft cooler as the heat rises and it gets a bit too warm up there if I don't have them running. They also help reduce plant leaf temperatures, which improves growth. Lastly, they cool my lights and ballasts, which increases their lifespan.

I'm still soaking my pots in plastic tubs to water them when they are inside. It's a bit tedious but I haven't figured out a better way yet. Having more trays to soak, drain, and a tap with a flexible head are incredibly time-saving improvements.

I'm very fortunate in that my plants are in the basement and watering isn't an issue. Excess water flows through to the floor and down a drain and gone! I tried using a garden hose but the lights are too close, so I use a 3 gallon pump sprayer.

I know someone else who uses large plastic trays and drills a hole in the lower corner of the tray to which is fitted a threaded hose coupling. A short length of hose is attached and drains into a 5 gallon bucket.

I wanted a metal tray to try that, a threaded hose coupling. Never found the right tray. What kind of plastic tray did they use? I can't seem to find a good one for that.

Kevin, they found old USPS mail bins. These are a thick plastic. They drilled a hole large enough to accept a hose repair splicing kit which provides either a male or female end. I'm sure any large plastic bin would work, like large storage bins found in BBS

Wow, I'm really enjoying seeing and reading about everyone's setups, that is so helpful and all of the ones posted here look great! I'll take a few pictures tonight or this weekend to post of my setups (a work in progress).

A couple of years ago I bought two 4' x 4 lamp T5 6500k 54w with full spectrum bulbs but until this year have used them for plumeria and adenium, so I'll be using those that look like this:

and I also just bought two of these 2' x 2 lamp T5 6500k for $51.99 each with free shipping on ebay. I have the wire shelving Deva and a few others have so I was trying to get something that would allow me to go more vertical, plus these had awesome reflectors included (which I need to work on getting for my 4' lights):

I have to get things indoors and setup and see what will work and what needs adjusting.

I also just scored a great 18" Lasko pedestal fan at WalMart marked down to under $23 and it has strong airflow! Fans are getting clearanced right now, you might be able to get some good prices.

Volkoff - not sure if this helps but here's a link to a thread I just started so this might give you some ideas on trays you were asking about The Perfect Plant Trays!

Ok, please keep in mind this is a work in progress and I wanted to show the before and after idea but it isn't finished. For the past couple of years I've had the two 4' x 4 lamp lights and would fill two 5-6' tables with Adenium and Plumeria, put the rest in the garage and just hung the lights from the ceiling with large hooks, lengths of chain and S hooks - it wasn't that big of a deal space wise in this spare room before but now with succulents & cacti entering the picture I need to really use my space more wisely and I also bought 2 of these shelving units just this year so I figure I'd try to go more vertical.

Before:

And here's where I'm headed:

I had some shelf brackets that were the perfect size and I decided to anchor those in the wall and use the S hooks and chain to make the top light hang from the wall instead of the ceiling. I have adjustment ability of several inches.

I'm going to try to find some cheap reflective material to tent the sides and maybe back - what do I see everyone using, Mylar or what is that stuff? I'll hang the two 2' T5's from two of the shelves and then I'll go from there. It's late and I can't do anymore tonight but I'll post more when it's done.

May I ask what kind of racks those are in the last picture?

I'm using mylar from 'Space Blankets' purchased off ebay. It does a great job with a couple of clamps to hold down the edges. If you have a fan running they do make some crinkly sounds, but it doesn't bother me.

I have the same racks! Got them at the local Home Depot. I've shifted the heights of mine around so get just two levels of plants. The lowest shelf catches any drips with cafeteria-style trays from Ikea.

Since last October, my winter setup and plants have come a long way. Here are a couple photos of what each looks like now. Main setup with 6xT5HO:

Secondary setup with 2xT5HO:

Tertiary setup wtih 2xT5HO:

And my secondary and tertiary setups combined onto two shelves fastened together:

Ewwmayo, I have to ask: Do you move all your plants outside during the warm months?

Here is a picture of my preliminary setup. In retrospect I should have purchased taller wire shelving for two shelves of plants/lights. But I may be able to add some type of free standing light device (http://www.bghydro.com/grow-lights/fluorescent-grow-lights/sunblaster-t5-universal-light-stand.html) on the top to place more plants there.

Thanks for the tray suggestions elucas; I think something similar would be really good for transporting them from outdoors to indoors. I was thinking of placing a few growing trays on the floor so that I can remove the saucers and just water the plants in place with the trays collecting the water. Will also put the lights closer with time but still getting plants acclimated to it. Some are etoliated from prior insufficient light.

Any suggestions? Would all be ok under same lights or do they need to be separated more by lighting requirements?

I have an unhealthy obsession with heavy, ceramic pots.

Volcoff

Just a heads' up, I tried to buy one of those stands form my local shop and the clerk emphatically advised me not to, as almost all the ones they had sold had been returned as 'pieces of crap".. in fact the one I had in my hand had been returned and was missing parts. Apparently the bit that holds the lights up was failing, and people were resorting to duct taping it up...

I made a simple little stand out of bent clothes hangers..

Palmandsnow - Everything under my primary setup goes out for spring/summer/fall. Maybe 10% of the plants in my secondary/tertiary setups get moved too? They rest are much more valuable and rare plants, so I'm a bit paranoid to just leave them out on the roof even if they are covered.

Volcoff - For $25, I think you could make something much sturdier and cheaper out of 2"x2" wood pieces and some metal brackets. You could fasten the ends down to your shelving with cable ties.

The only thing I use saucers now are for holding different top dressings I use for decorative purposes. You could use one or two deep sturdy trays to catch the water.

To accommodate plants with different light requirements, you can raise some pots higher than others. As well you can put them in different locations under the lights. Here is a higher angle on my primary setup. The Haworthia, Duvalia, Gasteria are mostly on the light edges where it is darker, as compared to my Mesembs in the middle. The shorter pots are raised up wood pieces so that the larger succulents at the back like my Crassulas still fit.

Palmsandsnow - yes, as ewwmayo mentioned they are from Home Depot and although the online price says $44.97 I got mine for $39.99 and see them there for that price all the time. The 5 shelf is a lot more than the 4 shelf so that's weird. Wire Shelving Unit Like many others I will recommend the black over the chrome as it doesn't rust and look as rough as quickly.

ewwmayo - thank you for the tip on the mylar, I'm definitely going to look into that! Your setup and your plants are just fantastic, thanks for posting pics of them. Your pictures always also make me realize how much space those square pots are saving - I know at least my Lithops seedlings will go in square plastic pots in the future, possibly more.

volcoff - Your plants look great! I share your "in retrospect" moments and have had several today trying to get my light setup going!! One idea to maximize your space is you could possibly add anchored brackets to the wall like I did or anchor hooks in the ceiling and get some S hooks and length of chain (cut to size by the hardware stores, available in many sizes) and utilize that top shelf like you're talking about. The brackets are about $5 apiece if they're 7", a little more if you need a longer one. The hooks and chain are very affordable and make your light height adjustable.

This picture shows both the hooks in the ceiling (left) and the brackets I used on the wall (top right) with lengths of adjustable chain and S hooks.

And this is what I got done today. Got the two 2' x 2 lamp fixtures wired in place with s hooks so they are a bit adjustable. Got the plants arranged so top shelf is winter growers (except that tall Euphorbia on the right he's a stray), second shelf is winter dormant. Table is a mixture right now. One of my fixtures also arrived with a non-working bulb so trying to work with the seller to replace that now.

I realized early on I was going to need another light, unfortunately. I really struggled with 4' x 2 lamp or 4' x 4 lamp but in the end decided the shelving although convenient & compact doesn't allow me to buy the fixture that gives me the most bang for my buck. (the opening between shelves limits the width of the fixture too) I could get a 4" x 2 lamp for $49.99 but in the end I decided to get the 4' x 4 lamp for $81.99 + free shipping 4' x 4 Lamp T5 6500k and I'm going to add one of my tables back because it allows me the flexibility to change height freely and get much wider coverage. I'm going to put my Adenium on the 3rd & 4th shelves since they can actually go dormant but I don't really like them in the garage & then next year may add another 4 x 2 under shelf light.

Two of the smaller 2 x 2 lights were more expensive than the 4 x 4 light - often the bigger ones are cheaper.

Awesome. Those shelves look like a good quality + nice and sturdy.

This is the first time I've used T5HO lighting and it is impressive. A cheap stand and a twin bulb 24" T5HO fixture at each level. These have been inside for 4-5 weeks and all are looking good.

These should be in great condition when they go back outside next spring.

Thanks Breton; I'll avoid getting the stand. I might either get a taller cabinet or do something like elucas with the wall brackets.

Thanks everyone else for the help!

Can anyone recommend a specific T5 4 foot fixture? My head is spinning with the options I have been researching.

Sunblaster has a good one. Get it with the reflector as they are quite nice.

Thanks ewwmayo I will look for them. May I also ask your opinion on how many 4 foot tubes I would need to cover a diameter of 23 inches? I am thinking 2 but would appreciate your thoughts as the expert.

So is it over round table you want to put them on? 48" tubes will cover 23" plenty, but if round, some areas will not get as much light.

Not round, no. I think spell check changed my word to diameter! At least I hope it did or I am losing my mind.

I am looking at carts with shelving--so each shelf is 48" long x 23 inches wide. Would one tube be enough? I thought at least 2 side by side would be necessary.

+1 for the Sunblaster with reflectors ewwmayo mentioned. I have three Sunblaster units for my 12" wide area (probably would have been fine with two) but I mostly have Mesembs and I plan to have them under the lights all year round. I would think you would at least need three bulbs for 23" but I'm also new at growing under lights so maybe ewwmayo or someone else might have more to say on it.

While looking at Sunblaster I saw their LED strip lights. Now I am wondering if that would be better than T5 bulbs.

https://www.amazon.com/Sunblaster-LED-Grow-Light-Strips/dp/B01MXPLFY6

The Sunblaster LED strips do produce a little more lumens, draw a little less watts, and produce less heat but for almost double the price. You would still need to get about the same amount of strips for the size of your shelving.

For 48"x23" you will need at least two tubes. If you have high light plants or taller/awkward shaped ones then maybe three (but probably not).

I've heard good things about the LED strips but they are quite expensive so I've not tried them yet.

Thank you ewwmayo and noyade. I will start with 2 per shelf. I am good to do a big price search on the LEDs and see what the best price I can get is. Lately Amazon is not the cheapest.

In my search I have found these Jump Start lights by Hydrofarm---but I do not understand how they can be both T5 and LED?? Wouldn't they have to be either T5 or LED?

https://growershouse.com/jump-start-t5-led-strip-reflector-fixture-48w-4-foot

I believe T5 is in reference to the size of the tubes. The higher the number, the thicker the tube?

That makes sense. So T5 can be fluorescent or LED. Thanks mesembs for shedding light on the confusing area of lighting!

Like mesembs said, I think they are just comparing the unit size to T5s. Those are just strictly LEDs.

Thank noyade. I understand now.

I found this--is there something wrong with this light? It would be a very cheap intro into the LED world of lighting.

https://smile.amazon.com/iPower-System-Growing-Isolated-Assurance/dp/B01E9IO6LW/ref=pd_sbs_86_21?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B01E9IO6LW&pd_rd_r=TWPWRHG4DA47EBM3T9SC&pd_rd_w=75u2X&pd_rd_wg=Cb1YO&psc=1&refRID=TWPWRHG4DA47EBM3T9SC

I am not fond of the red/pink color they give off so I would personally pass on them but some people don't mind.

Thanks. I will have them in the garage so don't mind the color if the lights are good for the plants.

I just don't understand why these are half the price of Hydrofarm or Sunblaster strip LED lights. I wonder if they are inferior somehow to be so cheap. It is clearly a Hydrofarm Jump Start knock off.

I have only Jades and live in Siberia. So I use only blue\red leds

Your setup looks great. What are the technical specifications for your lights? I would love to copy you!

odyssey3

my setups are know-how of minifermer.ru

Hi all,

I'd be curious to any new tips anyone has learned over the years. I just re-read this threat and it's full of useful information. A few questions:

1. Regarding fans/circulation, does everyone have the fan mostly blowing directly on their shelves. Consistently or intermittently (side to side moving fan)? Other than affecting leaf temperature and promoting growth, does it worsen vs help pests such as scale or mites?

2. Ewwmayo, how do you secure your sunblaster lights onto the wood strips? I'm still using the sunblaster plastic things that you buy separately to secure multiple light fixtures together, but they are really flimsy, and it is difficult for the lights to fit in them.

Thanks

@volcoff - Forgot to respond to this!

1. My fans are blowing across my shelves. I have DC brushless fans which do not have any oscillation feature. If you have mites, the dry environment provided with the circulation fans makes it worse (if left untreated).

2. I used the metal surface-mounting clips that came with the lights and used a small screw to fasten each clip onto the wood strips. They are metal U-shaped pieces and snap on to the Sunblaster lights quite tightly.