Friends and neighbors. Referrals are best. After that, check any local neighborhood discussion forums.

I've been getting a lot of calls lately to turn carports into living space here in Florida. Although my license covers it, it's just not something that I do.

"....want to turn it into a bigger project." seems like code words for "we don't want to spend much money".

It's ISN'T a little project at all. Done properly, with permits, that is.

Whew that was an unexpected and somewhat hostile response. To be clear, the scope of the work is "little" compared to friends and neighbors who are doing second stories, tearing down and rebuilding and other huge undertakings. Our house has an odd layout so we are sort of flipping the design by turning the garage into a living room and thereby creating a more welcoming entry. We are also building a new garage and an enclosed patio as well as adding fencing. The construction bids are well within our budget, we just find that the follow through isn't as great as our friends promoted. In addition the architects we interviewed want to move walls, widen our kitchen, etc ...things that might be nice someday, but are out of the scope of what we are currently aiming to do.

We do live in kind of a high end community with a lot of estates and it tends to be harder to find people by word of mouth that are interested in smaller (by comparison) jobs.

Oh and yes we will be doing everything by the book with permits and licensed contractors. We aren't trying to cut corners.

What is your desired scope of work and what are you budgeting for the project? Habitable space has requirements for insulation. For electrical. For egress. The sloped floor has to be leveled, insulated, and raised. The windows and doors have to meet your locale's energy requirements which often means removing and replacing the existing Windows that do not meet the requirements for habitable space. And we haven't even covered the decorative finishes.

For you to describe this as a small job says that you do not realize that the above. It's not just slapping down some carpet straight on the garage floor and framing in where the door used to be.

again, I'm describing it as small compared to the scope of work that my friends have used the same professionals for. compared to knocking down a house and rebuilding it, a garage conversion seems small. We have a healthy budget, well over what we have been quoted for the job. Price is not the issue, it's finding professionals intersted in what to them seems to be a small job. I may have posted in the wrong board as I was really looking for advice on how to find the right professional for the project.

I used someone referred by a colleague/friend, and also checked references given - did not work out well. I think my project was too big to be one of his "small" side projects and too small compared to his multi-million $$ projects. So I think you are correct, you may be talking to the wrong contractors. Sorry, wish I had more helpful advice.

The construction bids are well within our budget.

We have a healthy budget, well over what we have been quoted for the job. Price
is not the issue, it's finding professionals interested in what to them
seems to be a small job.

You mentioned a couple of times about the bids being within budget. It's confusing that professionals are bidding on the job, yet they're up front about not wanting a "small" job? Why are they wasting their time bidding? Using the word "bids", this refers to not one, but more than one professional is wasting their time with you. Exactly where are you located where these professionals have nothing better to do than to waste their time? Very bizarre to say the least!

Are the people you've talked to saying "I don't want the job" or are they willing, but just trying to push you into a bigger scope against your will? If they're not interested in your smaller scope, you could ask them for a referral to someone who does "smaller" projects.

Do you see other projects in process around town? Try stopping in, looking at the work, talking to the person in charge and seeing if they are a good fit.

Perhaps the city/county permit office will share their list of permit pullers in the past year.

Keep looking, keep asking everyone you know or run into. You'll eventually find the right fit.

Thanks Weedy. Yes, we are feeling pressure from architects to make the job "bigger" by adding additional components. One architect suggested a huge addition instead of the garage conversion...things like that and the example I gave earlier of one architect wanting to add reconfiguring other rooms that are unconnected to this project.

The contractors are different situation. We have met 3 and all have given us rough estimates (not bids since we don't have plans yet) and promised to follow up with the week with other info we discussed (ex: houses we could drive by to see their work, contact info for their architect ) and all have fallen off the face of the earth.

pupu4u:

As I mentioned, I've gotten several calls for similar work. Why don't I respond? Not because I'm not capable of doing the work to everyone's satisfaction, but I don't believe I'll be able to charge enough to make it worth my while. I spend hours pricing the job and correcting mistakes on the plans that you get to see for free, only to have the job given to someone much less expensive than I.

I'm through with bidding, I'm only going to bill.

Joseph, I totally appreciate your frustration. I am upfront in the phone about the scope of our project and I wish that the contractors would have turned down the meeting instead of wasting our time (my husband and I are taking off of work to meet with these people and spending significant time walking through the specifics). So back to my initial question of how do we find the right type of contractor for this type of job?

Pupu4u, I am glad you started this thread because I am in your boat. Eager to hear what others say.

You're sending out red flags to contractors. There are no plans yet, so there really isn't anything to bid on. All the ones you get to come in that situation will give you a builder grade lowball guess. If they bother at all. All they have to hear is someone wanting to keep a project ''little'' that is anything but small, and they roll their eyes and get off the phone as fast as possible. That's code for ''I have Champagne taste and Grape Nehi budget.''.

If you want accurate quotes, make a spec list of the exact products to be used and any construction or design features that you want, with the layout. Using an architect is overkill for a garage conversion unless you need one for the permits and are building another garage to replace the lost storage space.

Don't cold call. Tell them how you got their name. Referrals always get a better and faster response than obvious time wasters. If you found them on Houzz or another site, say so, and say why their work shown or reviews encouraged you to call them. Show them that you are looking for the right person, not the lowest price.

Show them the layout and discuss the materials and then ask them if they have any suggestions that would improve the project, or that could save money. Ask them to tell you about similar projects and what budget range that they fell into. You ask about a ballpark range because projects have different priorities and none will ever be exactly the same. And you show that you aren't' all about the low bid guesstimate, which is all you will get from the approach you're currently using.

Then if things sound good, you give him his copy of the plans and specs and ask about his calendar, and when he might be available for your project. After you show genuine interest in hiring him, you then ask about references from those previous job and copies of the license and insurance. You tell him that you look forward to receiving his proposal, and that you will get back to him within 7-10 days after receiving it with either a check for a deposit or your regrets for not choosing him.

And then you do exactly that. If you aren't ready to give someone a deposit in 2weeks time, then you aren't really a serious customer and you are wasting everyone's time. And don't Think that they don't know it either. Experienced contractors have a pretty good radar to avoid time sucks that won't go anywhere. Inexperienced contractors either develop that radar or go out of business. Just like the cheap guys that don't understand the formula for pricing has to include overhead and profit for the business as well as wages for themselves.

Sophie, I appreciate your input. To be clear I don't tell the contractors it's a little project I just describe the actual scope of the work, which I'm sure I said above but includes a garage conversion, constructing a new garage and an enclosed patio. What I mean by keeping it little is sticking to those elements and not adding other unrelated areas or additions. We are also super clear about our materials as we have already renovated the existing part of the house and we want to carry forward with the same materials. And I'm not asking for an estimate per se. Maybe I'm meeting with contractors too early and need to wait until I have plans??

We are having trouble finding an architect so I was partially hoping that in finding a contractor we want to work with we would get referred to an architect...

I suspect you'll have better luck if you have a plan and specifications in hand at the first meeting. Doesn't need to be architectural drawings, but a good pencil sketch of floor plan and elevations with electrical and plumbing additions called out. Your specifications should include a schedule of windows and doors, preferably with brands and models called out, floor, wall and ceiling finishes, trim should be defined, exterior finishes, roofing material, etc. I think you'll find that contractors will respond better to a very well defined scope of work than a nebulous request to "keep it small", and better to a written list of specifications than "make it similar to this". Your project may well be too small to interest a good design/build company, especially in a hot construction market, so you're probably going to need to do some of the legwork yourself, or hire an architect.

The Kitchens forum is very active. I think you'd get useful input from other homeowners over there who are experienced with remodeling rather than the same runaround wasting your time that you are getting from disgruntled pros here. Also search the forums so you don't have to subject yourself to it. Others have posted on the subject before. You might also try Home Building forum.

You have yet to describe anything that needs an architect.

After everything you have wrote, I really don't believe you know what you want. Good business people know how to qualify potential customers, it's the exact reason why they are still in business. They are aware of the tire kickers. I truly believe this is the wall you're running into.

Here's just a couple of your quotes:

And
I'm not asking for an estimate per se. Maybe I'm meeting with
contractors too early and need to wait until I have plans?

We have met 3 and all have
given us rough estimates (not bids since we don't have plans yet) and
promised to follow up with the week with other info we discussed (ex:
houses we could drive by to see their work, contact info for their
architect ) and all have fallen off the face of the earth.

How you even got 3 contractors out is beyond me. It's probably fortunate you didn't get involved with any of the 3, because I can't see them being in business very long without knowing how to qualify a customer.

If I had someone driving by my house because a contractor gave out my address to who knows who, I would be outraged. And for this person to not even being a client of the contractor, it's ludicrous thinking.

There's no reason a contractor should give out their contacts (architect)to a person who is not even a client. It's not like the person would know the architect, because if they did, they wouldn't be asking for that information.

If you're really serious, get a design/build firm out. You will have to front some money before they take any action. You will have to disclose your budget. You will have to put money up front for any type of estimate or rough plans. If you won't get off your wallet, they're not gonna waste their time with you.

Without a proper Scope of Work developed, there is no way to have a meaningful conversation with a contractor.

You need to sit down and go through all of the major components of this remodel and develop that Scope, category by category.

Demolition: Remove garage drywall to access stud bays for required insulation and electrical upgrades. Remove garage door carefully so that it can be donated. Haul door to Habitat For Humanity ReStore. Place drywall and other incidental debris in 20 yard dumpster on site to be hauled off.

Framing: Place ground contact pressure tested sleepers on concrete over vapor barrier in order to level and raise floor to interior height of home. Create new stud walls to partition space per floor plan. See copy of scaled floor plan.

Plumbing: Trench slab back to main drain per plumbers specs in order to achieve 1/4" slope per foot fall. Install new branch drain and vent for new bath per IRC code and per scale diagram attached for fixture location. Koehler Cimmaron elongated comfort height toilet model K 3609--95 Ice Gray. Seat is French Curve K-4713-95 Ice Gray. Vanity bowls Kohler Kathryn K-2325-1-95 Ice Gray Top Mount with single hole, quantity 2.

And so on.....

Each category will have its own Scope and will list the products used.

Then you will be ready to talk to contractors.

I confess I am very confused by the comment that I don't need an architect? We do need plans drawn up and submitted to the city... Who would do that if not an architect?

A job like this that is without any significant structural alterations can usually be permitted with a simple diagram from the contractor that you hire. In fact, something that only involves closing in the garage door as the main structural change probably doesn't even need a construction diagram in order to be permitted in most places.

As long as you develop the plan for what it is you actually want him to do, the contractor can take care of whatever is needed for the permit. Some places do require more red tape, so, as always, the first stop in your journey is that permitting office to ask about those requirements, setbacks, zoning restrictions, and anything else that would affect the job.

We are building a new garage. That isn't considered a structure that needs an architect? Each of the contractors we have met said we would need to have an architect draw plans and suggested to budget about $3500 for that...

And on the 28th comment to the post is the information that should have been in the very first post. I can see why contractors are walking away from the job without a callback. You lack proper communication skills and bury the lead. No one should have to endure 28 posts worth of doling out tiny tidbits in order to get to the meat.

You need a design build firm. An expensive design build firm. You just crossed the 100K line. Both in scope and in pita factor.

I actually did mention the garage in my second posts and again throughout this exchange. It is not so easy to get a the details into a concise post but I did my best. Anyway I officially give up on this thread and getting help from "pros" on Houzz. I have never encountered a ruder bunch. I never anticipated this level of hostility and I will no longer be reading this thread. I do truly thank the couple if you that gave good and kind advice.

pupu4u:

You'll find that in remodeling, just like in life, the most valuable folks tell you the truth whether or not it's what you want to hear. It's unfortunate that you perceive directness and honesty as rudeness. I'll continue to help you as best I can, but I can't do anything about the taste of the medicine, I can only spoon it up.

Wow, it's responses like the ones given on this thread that drive people away from this site. God forbid someone on here doesn't give exactly the information you people want in the first post. People come here looking for help on subjects they know nothing about and instead of getting help they get chastised.

darby0501:

Let me tell you what pros get for posting here. Telephone calls and emails from strangers across the country asking for and receiving free advice graciously. And lots and lots of gratitude in writing. Mostly. And never a paying job.

I do the best I can and most are appreciative.

Working with contractors is like working with the free advice you get here in the forum. You have one shot to get their attention and give them the information packet that they need to do the job. If you ruin that first shot by being flibertygibet and not giving enough information, then you've ruined your chances with more than just the one person.

Word gets out.

"Hey Joe, didn't I see your truck at Mrs. Whatsit's on Tuesday? What's up with that? She gave me a call too.''

"Yeah, you can forget that one. Doesn't have a clue as to what she wants and it took a good 45 minutes of wading through her whining about gray paint colors before I even found out that she wanted a new garage built in addition to the old one converted. By that time, I just couldn't wait to get out of there, even though I coulda drew up a simple in about 20minutes. Enter at your own risk. Might went to have a pita tax if you do decide to give it a shot. I'm too busy and too old for that.''

Customers never know how they get on the PITA list. They just know that their projects cost double what everyone else's do. Here's a clue as to how to keep that from happening. For those that can actually get their stuff together and control their dithering.

There actually are contractors and professionals out there who know part of their job is working with customers and that they need to guide laypeople through the process of defining and executing their project. So keep looking. Noting whether a potential hire has those skills will save any project huge headaches and poor outcomes, and lots of a client's (and everyone else's) time and money. If they can not effectively steer and handle the bucks of the first phone call or meeting, then know that things are not going to get any better because they lack the necessary communication and job skills needed to get the job done well and efficiently.

So those skills, behaviors and attitudes are good things to look for. They will serve as a guide in making sound hiring decisions and in differentiating those who work at a professional level and those who do not.

It sounds like you have a pretty good idea of what a professional is and are seeking that level of hire and workmanship. You might look for someone who views or calls those they do work for 'clients', instead of customers, consumers and homeowners they have to deal with. Also look for someone who likes their job.

Some of the comments on here were not direct and honest, they were down right rude. If professionals don't want to offer their opinions in a constructive way that is not rude, then why bother. Most people ask for opinions on here to do a gut check to make sure they are being reasonable and to not be "that guy". Many times when they ask they are attacked for even asking. I'm an adult and I can take the truth. I'm sure you get tired of hearing the same ignorant question asked over and over again. I can appreciate that. But if we weren't ignorant on the subject we wouldn't be asking in the first place. I wonder if many would say the same in person. Business must be VERY good to be so selective. I wish I didn't have to deal with any difficult people in my line of work. Many times the client just needs to be educated and brought back to reality. If we can confirm this is the "norm" then we can usually move one. Sometimes we just don't have a frame of reference.

Back to the op, sorry. I think I have an idea of what you're referring to. My best suggestions is that you just have to stay firm on your expectations for the project. This is what I'm looking for, no I have no interest in addtional expansion at this time, and are you interested in the project? Lay it out and if they aren't interested then move on to someone else. I'm sure the professionals see other potential areas or things they could improve on, but that obviously isn't what your looking for. I think you have to be very clear and firm in your expectations. There were a lot of good suggestions in this thread that should help.

It would probably work out best if you started out by getting a set of plans drawn up, along with a list of your needs (materials you want to use, etc.) or constraints (no elevation changes in floors, etc.). That would give the contractors a much better idea of what you want.

When we started planning our kitchen remodel we hired a kitchen planner who could also draw the architectural plans for the remodel, and we paid her the fees for those drawings. I think it was in the range of $3000-4000 to get two variations drawn up in 1/8" scale and then go forward to draw the one we picked in 1/4" scale.

She typically worked with a construction contractor, but did not require us to use any specific company for the work. However, we decided to use her recommended contractor, which turned out to be a good idea. They had to make small adjustments as the remodel progressed and they worked well together. She also provided revised plans for the city when one of the changes was more significant (adding a structured beam to provide more open space) . Having the planner and contractor work together well was very valuable.

Bruce

"It takes a village to do a remodel."

I know I had no real idea of who did what when I started. I got referrals to a GC from the realtor that sold me my house (who specializes in my neighborhood and knows the placed inside and out.) The GC explained that I needed plans and gave me the name of a couple of designers. (Around here, for something like what I'm doing, an architect isn't needed, a fact confirmed by my architect friend.) The designer deals with getting permits from the city. She does most of the drawings and works with a structural engineer where required to get those parts of the drawings that require review by a PE. With permits in hand, the GC can start.

The GC's been pretty gracious, not charging me for some of the consultations that have occurred a long the way (though I offered). He said he'll wait until he's really working the job (which will be full-time for him for about 9 months.) All this after he'd been able to tell I was committed.

I had a gratis preliminary meeting with the designer but everything else has been on my nickel, including the time it's taken her to explain to me how all this works.

I talked to a number of folks before starting this whole mess and must have sounded pretty clueless to them, particularly at first. I was lucky to have this GC who was willing to help me (with the help of the designer he works closely with) to get where I wanted to be. I think others realized how little I could see about the process and probably decided they had other jobs that were less vague, etc. Locally, construction is very hot. (Too bad I didn't decide to do this back in the late 2000s.) GCs with good reputations are choosy. Which kinda sucks from a potential customer point of view but I can totally understand from their point of view.

Just reading GW, I've come to realize there's a huge spread of understanding of the details of projects. Sticking around long enough, I've seen people's (and my) understanding evolve.

For what it's worth, I did qualify the folks I talked to in terms of size of the project: I didn't want to do something too small or too large for them. Pursing that would have been a waste of time for both of us.

Anyway, to my mind, it's a process for us consumers. We have a lot to learn. I can see how it'd be frustrating for the professionals, particularly the really reliable ones. There's such a mixture of education in consumers and approach in professionals.

As to how to actually find people: I was lucky with my realtor (the one that sold my house.) In my area, Nextdoor has been getting a lot of traffic in my area lately. But I can see there, too, that many people that give recommendations don't have quite the approach/standards/expectations/understanding that I (and many here) do.