Question 3:

Wait? There's more soil parts other than Bark, Turface and Grit? Perlite? Pumice? Volcanic Rocks?!? You got to be kidding me!

Answer 3:

Modification can always be made to suit your watering habits, plants needs and environmental differences. So there is no one perfect universal mix that can please all plants, and in this respect, all succulents or cacti.

I believe this excerpt can shred you some lights for you and your plants:

Purposes of soil:

The soil mix provides physical support for the plant, acts as a source or reservoir of water and nutrients, allows circulation of air to the roots while protecting them from sun damage and desiccation. For some species it is also important that the soil serve as thermal storage allowing the plant to survive greater temperature extremes than it could in bare-root form.

Natural Soil Components:

Most cacti and succulents live in soil with perhaps 3% to 5% organics. The remainder is mineral and may include particle sizes from clay up to boulders. Finer soils allow less air circulation and tolerate much less water before risking root suffocation and rot. Conversely, coarser soils require more frequent watering to avoid root death due to desiccation.

Desert soils do not experience the cultivation that worms perform in temperate regions. Neither do they develop thick layers of humus from which minerals and humic acids leach with each rain. Rapid surface drying slows the breakdown of plant residues. In the Sonoran desert, carpenter ants may be the major force for removal of surface residues. In Africa, it is the termite. The major source of soil organics does not come from above. It is the roots of prior plant generations.

Except for plants with seeds that must be deposited by flowing water like the river paloverde, plants do not choose their soil. They try to survive where they are. The soil in which they naturally survive may not be optimal and may just be too poor to support any competitors. Not surprisingly, there are perfect soils in which practically any plant will do well. Such soils are so rare in nature that no species would evolve to depend on them and no collector would perceive them as the native soil for any particular species. Nonetheless, we can produce such soils artificially.

Available Natural Components:

Clay particles array themselves in a fashion that stores water and nutrients and in natural soils prevents both from sinking below the root zone. They also pack so tightly that root aeration is compromised. As much as 10% clay in the form of kitty litter may save mixes that would have been too friable to hold plants upright. Clay makes the mix stick together but must be used in moderation.

Fine sand/silt in natural soil holds moisture in narrow interparticle spaces and wicks moisture into the root zone from the subsoil. This service is not needed for potted plants. The particles pack too tight for good root aeration and offer little ion exchange capability. They also do little to support plants structurally. There is no specific need for sand in a soil mix.

Natural gravels and pebbles improve air circulation but do not hold water or nutrients. They are often so rounded that plants potted in pure gravel just tip themselves out of the pot. Sometimes a little clay will hold the mix together but pebbles are best used as a top or bottom dressing or as the starter medium for aero-hydroponic systems.

Those who want to screen their own should discard particles under 1 mm which would pass through the typical kitchen strainer. The 2mm to 5mm particles which pass through 1/4" hardware cloth are useful for soil mixes. The 5mm to 10mm pebbles which pass through 1/2' hardware cloth are best for hydroponic use or as top dressing for large plants.

Granular diatomaceous earth looks like kitty litter and has particle sizes from 1mm to 4 mm. It absorbs water in its pores and supports ion exchange. It is sold as a mechanic's oil absorbent and would be a perfect medium if it were available in coarser form. It is a great top-dressing because it does not stick together and the surface quickly dries to eggshell color. Even without much cohesion, its weight and wet-ability provide good plant support.

Crushed pumice shares the same characteristics and is available in coarser sizes. It is not cheaply available in most areas in less than boxcar-sized loads but is the product of choice when available. Crushed basaltic lava rock has larger vesicles and lower silica content. The particles cut into each other providing better physical plant support than any other medium. Lava rock is slightly soluble. Minerals leach out making the soil more alkaline and it breaks down into smaller particles over time. A high proportion of lava rock will cause the same problems as will sand after enough leaching.

Peat moss is the decomposed remains of temperate bog mosses. Its fine particle size requires moderation to avoid root suffocation. It releases humic acids which may combat some root pathogens but in breaking down it competes with the roots for available oxygen. As a primary component it resists re-wetting after drying but in proportions less than 25% and when ground with the other components through 1/4" hardware cloth re-wetting is not a problem.

Peat moss stores water and nutrients well while providing little of its own. It helps in physical support by holding the soil together but relies on fine roots and fungi to assist in that task. Peat moss is a thermal insulator and prevents plants from transferring heat to or from the soil. Plants potted in peat moss will have lower heat and cold resistance.

Peat moss lowers the PH of soil and is useful to compensate for lava rock. Otherwise, one to three tablespoons of lime must be added per cubic foot of peat moss to avoid excess acidity. Dolomitic lime is preferred to avoid an excess of calcium compared to magnesium. Peat moss is mined from environmentally sensitive areas with limited regenerative capacity. Many avoid it for that reason and use the alternatives described below.

Artificial Soil Components:

Vermiculite is an expanded form of mica. It holds water and minerals well between its layers. It tends to shrink when wet and expand when dry and moves a lot when watered. The volume changes can be compensated by about one gram of polyacrylamide crystals per liter. As with lava rock, the particles break down over time. Since the surface of vermiculite dries too fast for exposed seedlings while the depths offer too little air circulation for most plants, it should be used sparingly, no more than 25% of the mix.

Rock wool is derived from a mixture of ground stone which is melted, spun and compacted. It holds water and minerals well but slowly releases alkali like lava rock. Its fine pore size may suffocate roots except where the smallest cubes of rock-wool are used for seedlings. In hydroponic use, larger plants are allowed to arrange their roots on the surface of a rock-wool slab while plant support is provided from above. Bulk rock wool looks like grey cotton and can be used in soil mixes. The chunks do tend to stick together and aggregate. Breaking them down through a 1/4" mesh screen embeds a multitude of fine fibers in one's skin. There are many better alternatives to rock-wool in a mix.

Perlite is an expanded silica. It is slightly porous, offering some water and mineral storage capacity. It provides good plant support when wet or dry but tends to suspend itself during watering. It will let a plant fall over but will stiffen up when the water drains out. It will also float up through a top-dressing. The main value of perlite is its support for air circulation while also distributing water well through surface wicking. Many plants grow well in straight perlite with hydroponic feeding. A pot or tub of perlite can water itself via a fiber wick extending into a vessel of hydroponic solution. Perlite is an excellent bottom dressing to prevent potted plants from wicking up too much moisture from drainage saucers. Some sources of perlite have high alkali content, mostly potassium and will raise soil PH over time.

There is also a styrofoam product called styromull with characteristics similar to perlite. Some European experts recommend it but it does not appear to be available in the Americas.

The three products described above are thermal insulators having the same limitation described for peat moss.

Baked clay spheres or extrusions which are collectively called grow-rocks in the hydroponic trade provide drainage and air circulation and store significant amounts of moisture and minerals. They are too coarse to use in other than hydroponic systems and most are too smooth to provide good plant support. A variant made of expanded shale avoids those limitations and is the equal to pumice. These products are of little value in low concentrations, becoming expensive pebbles and are too expensive to use in quantity unless one has a local manufacturer. As with the natural mineral products, shipping costs far exceed the initial cost of the material.

As an alternative to peat moss, one can use mixed compost or composted bark chips. Mixed compost may contain manure, fallen leaves, grass clippings, agricultural residue, recycled newspaper and/or sawmill residue. Most are well composted and can be used like peat moss but without the re-wetting problem.

One superior product called "America's Choice" was long-fiber sawmill residue. The long fibers provided plant support but were coarse enough to avoid packing down and suffocating roots. Alas, Wal-Mart no longer offers it. Perhaps some of the list members can find alternate sources.

Bark chips have a much lower surface to volume ratio. They offer good drainage and can be used in high concentrations without suffocating roots. They do not offer good support and slide over each other easily but are much less likely to float up than perlite. Eastern sources of bark have predominantly 1cm and larger particle sizes while western sources are below 1 cm. One can screen it and use the same particle sizes as were recommended for gravel. Bark is not fully composted. It releases humic acids slowly so that little lime is needed to regulate PH but it can absorb significant amounts of nitrogen from the soil mix during its initial breakdown. One can add a tablespoon of dolomite per cubic foot and 2% to 3% by dry weight of nitrogen in some soluble form to a dampened mix and let it re-compost a few weeks before use.

Favorite Mixes (FLAME BAIT):

My favorite mix for aero-hydroponic use is equal parts of pea gravel and bark chips which will pass through 1/2" hardware cloth but not 1/4" hardware cloth.

My current favorite mix for daily watering with hydroponic solution is equal parts of granular diatomaceous earth, perlite and screened bark chips. All pass through 1/4" hardware cloth but not through a 1mm screen.

My favorite mix for gift plants which will be watered irregularly with our local alkaline water contains equal parts of peat moss, vermiculite, perlite and granular diatomaceous earth with 1/2 tsp of polyacrylamide crystals, one tablespoon of Osmocote pellets and two tablespoons of bone meal per gallon of mix. The mix goes through 1/4" hardware cloth just to break up the lumps.

Category 3: Light

Category 4: Water

Category 5: Air

Category 6: Fertilizers

Category 7: Temperature

Category 8: Dormancy

Category 9: Propagation / Growing with Seeds

Category 10: Pest

Category 11: Where to Buy?

More to be added as I go by.. This is definitely no one man's project, and in fact the more input the better! So please share a link, help a newbie and hopefully this takes up..

Bernard

Hye, no e-mail yet..I have not heard from you.I ahve another person lined up for that cutting if I don't hear from you soon)

Mike -- I just sent you an email! :)

Bernard: have you asked Houzz abt this? 'cause the old FAQs that had been written by multiple GW Members (including myself & some old friends from here) were sort of 'disappeared' & SOME of them have been jumbled together above GW Tamara's name, but are ALL credited to her.

Perhaps it's best to ASK FIRST before expending energy on something which either may not be allowed, or may be re-written either in whole or part by other folks, who it seems may not know plants or perhaps don't garden themselves.

Also, am sure you've seen Al (Tapla) has written pretty extensively on this btwn his multiple links which many here seem to know well.

Lena

Lena, like many newer post-gardenweb users here, I do not belong to the old gardenweb forum era. If you have an avenue to reach out to speak/write to Houzz about this, I would love to hear you provide some form of contact.

I do not post anything here for the purpose to steal any credit whatsoever, and I also know that there were once an FAQ page, but despite multiple searches, nothing surfaced. There were some requests from newer members here and there on an actual basic FAQ page, but no one actually followed up and those threads, and they just kindda died away.

Asking is exactly my perpetuity of starting this thread and my subject says it all.

I'm only trying to sync information and revive some old useful articles that are now dead links that I once stored using my email. If you can provide the links or more info on some of these well-written "disappeared" threads to the newer members, I'm sure the many, including me would benefit from that here.

In regards to Al's post, my goal here is to help and encourage newer users to read and have access to more organized information posted by him, instead of rummaging through pages and pages of links amongst alot of information that have not been indexed. It can be very discouraging and confusing for any beginner to start with.

If your point here is to rain on my parade or trying to discredit my experience as a grower to share, I suggest you be an enabler instead and take your negativity elsewhere.

Bernard

Not to be negative but..... There are just far to many plants and opinions to even think that one persons methods is always going to work and be better than another persons view. IE One person uses pumice and doesn't use turface someone else don't use pumice and insist on useing truface. Any idea as to who has the healthier plant ?

A updated FAQ has been a topic in the past as well ( Older GW It seems that no matter how sought for a updated FAQ is OR No matter how easy it is to "look things up" VIA an FAQ to find the words of just one persons ( so called ) facts on a FAQ of this nature dismisses any and all other conversations and options from folks with better cultivating skills a with hands on experiences that an FAQ would be able to answer.

There are no rain in your words that you call a paraade But why do you ask for your personal cultivating experiences be dismissed by your age on the forum and be replaced by a FAQ ? Is it also what you observed in your experiences are that you ask to be dismissed from ?

PS Merry Christmas to yah

I
apologize immediately Bernard, my point is NOT to rain on you parade at all.
Rather it's to try & avoid or prevent your time & energy being wasted
(if it's not allowed) or if it's then 'edited' by others who aren't gardeners
& simply don't know better or differently (that has been experienced here).

I don't know links
but can't provide routes to the 'disappeared FAQs' 'cause they're DISAPPEARED!

Example from past knowledge: I am personal friends w/ the
guy who had written the old FAQ on Aloes, which he collects. After some
'editing' & G_d knows what all else, the modified Aloe FAQ ends up
mentioning the use of sand as being OK (as 1/3 component, even tho it doesn't
say COARSE sand. The original author would not have said that w/out qualifying
it so). Nor would he have headed the FAQ w/ a phrase like "How to
grow Aloe Vera", & then provided a pic of a completely different
plant, not sure it’s even an Aloe, looks more like an Aloe/Haworthia cross to
me.

Having seen most recommendations here (at C&S) to pot up
ONLY an inch or TWO larger than the root ball, he'd never advocate potting up
w/ space 3-5 times the size of the root ball. Maybe for outdoor PIG Aloe
(Planted In Ground) but not indoors, that's an invitation to root rot.

“Asking is exactly my perpetuity of starting
this thread and my subject says it all.”

Sorry, not sure but, I assume it means to speaking to purpose,
as the Heading makes clear.

To Contact Houzz, scroll all the way down to the
bottom of screen ‘til you see Houzz logo on the left. You’ll see
multiple pull-down looking items, 1st on the left says
‘Company’, the 3rd item from the
bottom says ‘Contact Us’. That’s the one I’m familiar
w/. I see on the other side, over to the right, there’s a Pull-Down
marked “Connect With Us”listing multiple options of
Social Media. One could use that too I guess.

As
to the Existing FAQs.

From
the front of the C&S Forum the 3rd heading down from the top: Related Forums, the
5th &
last items reads FAQs.

Again,
Bernard, Pls. consider excusing my clumsiness & perhaps less than ideal
phrasing. It’s clear you are a caring, involved, engaged &
plant-devoted guy who likes learning, growing nice plants & sharing the
plant love as most of us here do. I had scanned quickly &
started answering & THEN (my bad) went back up to READ IN DETAIL. I
had no thought at all that you would be taking credit for Al’s work, just my
thinking that w/ so many seeming able to call his links up in an instant, that
I guess I thought they were available enough.

Again, I apologize, I am sometimes too direct or awkward in my
phrasing & it seems to have caused offense where none was meant. I
try hard not to be negative here & will try harder to do so in
future.

Nomen, I get where you are coming from.. I find that many a time, new members come here seeking help because, either A) they really want to ensure they want the best care for their plants or B) they want to be part of this community that love plants. But for any beginner, the information available here is quite overwhelming.. Even today, when I remembered certain topics based on memory, I still had trouble finding the links via the search button - meaning to say it is even more discouraging for a beginner to even try.

My ultimate goal was a thread with some handful pointers for beginners, and also a link page to other discussions on it, take soil for example, which till today sparks many variations and different debates as you had mentioned.

Happy Holidays to you!! Blessings and joy to you and your family!!

Lena, I'm sorry that we had a misunderstanding here. I hold no offense. I managed to find Tamara and I sent her PM regarding this. I appreciate your concerns, but it's never easy being an enabler, in fact, it's never easy to suggest change to anything!

I find sharing a joy in this forums, that's what makes this community feels special. My aim here was to make newer beginners feel more welcomed, or at least know where and how to start their quest by having some basic knowledge before making some informed decisions.

I understand the variations and opinions here are extensive and wide, but some key basics such as stating your Zones are good posting etiquettes to have that some beginners have no prior knowledge about.

I guess they is nothing else to discuss here, since having an FAQ is such an unpopular opinion.

Margaret, they are the extreme hobbyist and then the seasoned hobbyist. I agree there is no one size fits all, but I really do wanted to create something that welcomes newer members and make information more bite size and less condensed, that way if they would like to immerse into it, they can read more into the other posts.

Anyways, I can just save this time and spend them all on plants instead.

Blessing and joy to you and your family too! Merry Holidays!!

Bernard

I think it's a great idea, Bernard, except not as an omnibus thread that will eventually disappear in the nether regions of the archives. I'm sure you have noticed that at the top of the forum front page, under the forum title, at the very end of that row is a link to Cacti and Succulents Frequently Asked Questions.

There are, right now, 6 entries there, all posted by Tamara, probably to get things going. I have no clue whether these FAQ entries need to be refereed by GardenWeb (i.e. submitted to them for clean-up or what-not). But the mechanism already exists, it just hasn't been noticed much.

I recommend that the generous people here who feel competent to do so should write a FAQ for specific genus of cacti and succulents. Beginners like me are easily confused and perhaps the most frustrating aspect of using "search" on any website is coming up with results that one has to spend hours sifting in order to filter out the noise.

Just keep in mind that when you write them, you must give the broad strokes for the specific genus you are writing about. This way, drop-in members can be directed to that particular FAQ and then the forum can deal with specifics after they read that.

Pagan

This is a great effort Bernard, I hope it takes off b/c it's pretty encompassing and can serve the intermediate growers as well as the newbies. I have been thinking of something along this line as well, but much more basic. It seems the most frequent of the frequent questions are about a plant near death, and we discover it is water-retentive soil mixed with a generous watering pattern. And maybe after that would be etiolation due to weak lighting.

Not wanting to rewrite an answer every time, I thought it would help to link to a quick, *generic* blurb about increasing drainage, assessing soil moisture before watering, and lighting/pruning to treat etiolation.

Maybe it will be best to wait to see how your effort pans out, perhaps mine will be unnecessary. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!

ez

Bernard - this is not an unpopular or bad idea at all. But we have seen some good FAQ posts get edited - streamlined for clarity - and sometimes changed for the worse. We don't want that to happen to you.

You have a lot of info to offer. Maybe it could be broken down into sub-threads, so to speak. I like the newby thread idea as a starting point, but maybe you should keep it real simple.
1. Etiquette for getting help - zone and area, e.g. 10A SW Florida (my info)
2. Watering - why one size does not fit all. Here are some in depth pointers.
3. Potting medium - again one size does not fit all. Commercial soil is usually the worst, here is a discussion of why and some alternatives.
And so on with the other categories that you have listed. (Obviously I have greatly truncated answers!)

Each category can be expounded on greatly, but I can see a newby still being overwhelmed by a long post covering it all. An informative synopsis with a link to another FAQ post covering that subject in depth may work out better - such as you did for the IDs of plants. And maybe that will keep your posts from being edited for clarity. (not that it would need better clarity, of course!)

Just some thoughts on the project. I don't mean to sound like your original idea was wrong, just offering a different prospective. Maybe you don't like this idea at all, but it sounded like you are leaning this way in your last post. That's OK. More available info out there is always a good thing!

OH - please let them know that no matter how cute those terrariums are, or how convenient those glued on rocks are, and how unique painted plants are, and no matter how many places are selling them - they are bad for succulents! (LOL - my little rant)

Crenda, thanks for saying this:

"... But we have seen some good FAQ posts get edited - streamlined for clarity - and sometimes changed for the worse. We don't want that to happen to you."

You appear to have understood my point.

Pagan: in my comments to Bernard I pointed him directly to those FAQs; it's those I'm referring to as now a hodgepodge of what had been written earlier. Sadly if you read the Aloe Vera FAQ you can see the problems I'm referring to.

I completely agree with having a need for updated and accurate FAQ. I remember when I first came to the forums I was still growing my plants it that store bought junk. When inquiring about a better mix I was, of course, told to search Al's gritty mix. The only problem is that I searched "Al's gritty mix" and it took me quite some time to read through hundreds of posts that all said "go search for Al's gritty mix" but not a single one actually had the mix. It wasn't until a very generous person posted a direct link that I was actually able to read about it.

I'd hate for Bernard, or anyone to waste time compiling all of this information if it's just going to be butchered. I vote for waiting on a response from Tamara, hopefully with instructions, before anyone puts too much effort into this.

I am a newbie with several threads posted, of course with the pretty pleases' mentioned by the generous Bernard (: anyway I have found many extremely helpful patient and kind experienced caregivers almost always jump in to help.. it is hard as mentioned also to find specific links without having to first weed through 100's..also regarding Al and his brilliant gritty mix, among other users with other smart mixes, I really like the idea of being able to find help and resources from others in related zone as I believe mentioned by @Crenda (= I would love to be able to get my babies in the correct mix, and I'm doing my best. Being a single parent, and on a strict and limited budget it's hard to find the ingredients and be able to afford them at one go. I've noticed some members seem to think if one hasn't immediately followed the advice on gritty mix it's because they don't truly care for their plants..or maybe my guilty conscious interprets it that way. So possibly a thread on resources for affordable/thrifty mix ingredients on the newbie faqs if not already thought of, I personally would love to see this FAQ happen. I believe it would be a great resource. While I don't want someone to pour their soul out only to have it disappear, even if it last for a few months think how much will be gained by both the novice and the pro with the amount of traffic in just a couple of months? It would leave room for the pros to see more of Oldstumpys blooms or Ewws beloved lithops ;) really though all of you are appreciated and while some come across dry/jaded and others come across considerately concerned, it's obvious ALL of you care tremendously to even take a minute to comment, and that a newbie current FAQ section is being considered and discussed by you all says a lot!!! Blessings to all and a Very Merry Christmas!!! btw my 4yr old is still sleeping so forgive errors as I hoped to speed through before she wakes and discovers her presents ;)

Bernard : This thread will also become lost in archives Suggestion you should copy your FAQ progress and save it to a file on your hard drive

Hi Folks, I was thinking of starting a beginner's FAQ thread with a series of compilations of basic information ranging from Soil, Watering, Light to Propagating or even the need for Dormancy.

As any one of us have started, we all know how big the learning curve can be in growing these plants, and there are definitely a wealth of links/information and shared experiences within the forum. But it can get complicated as not all titles/data have been indexed or comes up easily without having to search the right keywords.

I believe if we curate a thread with repeated questions/pictures and answer them with links like a big mind map, it will certainly help new members find a better foothold into providing better care for their plants.

Here are some of the biggest category header I can best think off, then we can sort commonly asked questions followed by answers with links and more articled readings after..

I'm probably going to spearhead a few topics under each category.

It will be really exciting if you can post according to the format, so I can compile/curate and re-post onto an entirety on another thread in an organized format

Format EG

State Category No - State Category Name

Commonly Asked Question, Pictures if available

Answer, Pictures if available, followed by links/articles/more detailed reading on another thread

Category 1 - Beginner's Zone

Welcome to the Cacti & Succulent (C&S) Forums at the Garden Web! Recently with more attention given to the popularity for Succulents in general, I believe this is the most active growing community at the forums apart from the House plants section.

Before we begin, they are a few Etiquette rules in general, so as to help us members here better help you with your questions about you and your plants' needs.

Question 1:

Help!! My precious baby plant xxx is dying!! I just watered it last night but it's not coming back!

Answer 1:

1. Please state your zoning before any post asking for help, or climate region as growing C&S in the Arctic region for example in Ukraine (no kidding, we are a very diverse bunch and we have a few very dedicated members that grow such plants in the North) is very much different from growing them in the warm climates of Texas. That way members here can better understand your environment and post suggestions accordingly.

2. Pictures - the more the merrier! Not everyone here are gods of cacti and succulents, and can instantly fix your problem you shared by a mere few lines of description. As mere mortals like us, a picture of the roots (if possible), soil, foliage (closeup on the problems will be great)

3. Culture Information

Light - Where is your plant placed? If by a windowsill, what is the direction of the windows facing at?

Water - When did you last watered? How often?

Soil - When did you last repot? Where there any changes made to your soil?

Pots - What is your pot size? Does your pots have drainage holes? How many? How wide?

Question 2:

Please ID my plant please! I just want to know the name and can take care of it better. Pretty please! Pretty Pretty Please!!

Answer 2:

Congrats on your new plant! There are at least 11046 named and classified succulents in this genus according to the life form encyclopedia. The most popular families are Crassulaceae, Mesmembs, Euphorbiaceae just to name a few.

Nothing works best but do a little investigation work on your own. Here are a few helpful links that might able to help you on your quest:

http://www.llifle.com/Encyclopedia/SUCCULENTS/Content/

http://www.crassulaceae.ch/de/home

http://www.cactusjungle.com/cactus_and_succulents.html

http://www.smgrowers.com/plantindx.asp

Please note, do not double post! Be patient! Members here are doing this as a hobby, so nobody here is obliged here to answer your questions within 3 business days.

Category 2 - Roots/Soil

One of the biggest misconception is that succulents are great house plants, and therefore anything related to house plant including terraniums/garden soil works like magic on them.

We need to get one thing clear first, is that cacti are succulents, and these are xerophytic plants that have evolved thousands of years to grow in very arid, dry climates with very little rainfall each year. Each species has their own special mechanism to cope with such drought and stress with high amounts of light and wind, sometimes even at freezing temperatures. Most of these plants developed techniques to sort water in their fleshy leaves/stems by collection moisture from morning dew drops or the night mist. One thing in common for all of these plants is that their roots are perpetually kept dry through the majority of the seasons. That also doesn't mean they don't need water, or they need water in small amounts. They need water or roots will desiccate when the plant is experiencing prolonged drought, hence it is a balancing act that could go on for 10 more threads, and we would still be discussing the same thing.

The best way to tackle this, is knowing the nature of your plants' roots, and altering your mix to suit the needs of the plant.

http://www.botgard.ucla.edu/html/botanytextbooks/generalbotany/typesofroots/

Echeveria's or most plants in the crassulaceae family generally have fiborous roots, so they usually benefit with some form or peat/loam to help the finer feeder roots cope with nutrient shortage.

Haworthia's here generally have very thick tap roots that burrows very deeply into the ground to seeking moisture. Such plants benefit with long narrow deeper shape pots, when the smaller less thicker roots in the bottom do most of the job is absorbing moisture.

My knowledge on soil mixes affecting root types still needs more follow up or input from others. So correct me if I'm wrong..

Generally, most growers here do not go into such in depth details, even though it helps benefiting your plants greatly. So most people generally modify their mix into on a drier/gritter version. This way, water doesn't stay logged in the pots for too long, ultimately avoiding root rot/fungal infection, which is the biggest problem killing most xerophytic plants.

Question 1:

What do you mean by well-draining soil? I just bought these Miracle Grow, XXX Cactus and Succulent soil and potted my plants in them. They are sold commercially, so they must be well draining soil that are perfect for my plants!

Answer 1:

Sorry to ruin your dreams, but anything you purchase from any BBS when "soil" or "peat" in them are simply just not well-draining enough for your C&S plants. Most members here use a either a version of Al's gritty mix or a modified variation of it. You can read more here, here and here.

Question 2:

Gritty Mix what? Who is this Al Fella? And why there isn't a mix I can just buy for my new plants? This is all too complicated!!

Answer 2:

No perfect mix takes an overnight shipping express to your door step and into your plant containers. In fact, there isn't the perfect soil that will last you forever either. In reality, or in the wild, your plants can gather all of its necessary nutrient or resources from the ground that mother earth has provided. Right here, we grow plants in pots, and we can only do our best to simulate the properties of such environments.

Which A) first is not to kill your plants by logging perched water for too long, because roots switch off when it becomes too wet for too long, B) ensure sufficient air flow so water can be evaporated quickly into moisture so the roots can take in and C) protection for the roots from drastic temperature such as heat/freeze.

Having said that, Al had more than 30 years of growing experience, and he introduced this method of inogranic soil, which consist of 3 parts. Equal part fine Bark, Turface, Grit or Gravel. Each component needs to be screened between 1/8 - 3/16" for optimum effects.

Most growers here experienced great success with this mix, as it provides ideal conditions for succulent roots to be happy. With happy roots, you get happy plants!

Incidentally, this mix has gained so much popularity that a vendor has begun commercially selling this modified mix online here (word of advise thought, it doesn't come cheap because you pay for the acquired convenience and shipping), and you can actually purchase the soil without going through all the obstacles to collect them in bulk. The downside is that you still have to screen your mix, because like all soil, they break down overtime, and you do not want those powdered minerals in your pots with your plants.

Intentions would be to re post the entire FAQ when the question gets asked

I wonder, though, how many people here actually do use the 'gritty mix'. I know I don't, and I know another couple of forum members who don't. I really think there are many suitable soils; jades will thrive even in ordinary houseplant compost, as I have seen with my own eyes. The trick is not to overwater. Echeverias seem to be a different challenge, but seem much harder to grow, going by posters here; however, a neighbour has many, growing in 'ordinary' proprietary soil, and she has had them years.

I really think there are many suitable soils; jades will thrive even in ordinary houseplant compost

Interesting idea but one I'd rather not adventure even though I'm sure ordinary houseplant compost soil does work as we find time to either agree or disagree that pot sizes are the primary factor for a jade to thrive.

Bernard, thanks for doing this, and for sharing your wealth of information. Big fan here

i know this will inspire exclamations of quelle horreur but the fascination of gritty mix passes me totally by.

most of my sucs have, for the past two years, been repotted into ancient potting soil that i'm scraping out of a 25 year old wine barrel that's falling apart.

the time, effort and expense of gritty mix is a non starter for me. i just don't have the inclination to worry about whether my fines are too fine, or merde, not fine enough.

people who really want to grow fine plants will do so, others-not so much.

so, if i were contributing i would say; don't overpot, plant higher rather than lower, have a care about watering and give them good light, keep an eye out for bugs, but if you find some don't flip out-a little alcohol or windex is good for what ails you.

above all-pay attention and think about it, and success will be yours.

Hi Folks, thank you for all your feedback and comments. I really appreciate all the garnered concerns and suggestions. As this is all preliminary, format/content/layout can always been changed to flow better for accessibility and readability for information, especially more so for beginners to the community.

I've reached out to Tamara, and I have not heard from her yet thus far. As of now, I already had most of my quotes, links and writing backed up in my email. I plan to upload and set up a template via google doc, giving access to only a few trusted members as admin to readily upload/edit content to it.

That way, the tentative FAQ draft can be a work in progress, and also be accessed until we finalized how Houzz/Gardenweb or the admin in this forum will decide on this idea. Who knows? It can even be uploaded into the FAQ page just for C&S community alone!

Pagan - I'm glad you're onboard! As of now, I believe the simpler the FAQ content the better. There is always an opportunity to build on it later into specific genus/families if it really does catches on - and I'm sure your Haworthia and Padypodium expertise can come in really handy!

The first aim to target basic and credible information in an organized manner that are accessible to beginners on this forum.

I also do agree that not everyone can be as dedicated and wish to spend hours and hours filtering threads until they have the information they need.

Ez- Thanks for your input! What you had mentioned are all points I was addressing to, there should be a easy go-to 'five commandment hand book" thread that answers those common questions, and I hope this FAQ will lead into that.

Crenda - Thanks for your suggestions and streamlining my idea, I would definitely pencil down those points.. One such problem I encountered was, there were many great articles shared in this forum, and they were in forms of external links. It was very resourceful until the host of these links went dead.

I remembered a convo with Rina on a link shared by Mark on Steven's Hammers writings on Mesmebs care, and somehow the links are no longer active and the only remains were dead links leading to an empty page.

Good thing though, that I had printed some, copied and pasted some in my emails and I would like to upload them again, so that they could be shared once more.

I believe the idea you had mentioned creating subsets and many various articles through a directory page is a good idea, and I might need to figure out if that is possible through google docs.

PS I know exactly what you are talking about, I might just throw my original terrarium thread and couple of useful cartoon illustrations into the FAQ for "educational" purposes.

Nicholas - As of now, we have 1,562 gritty mix discussions in the C&S forum, 1,762 in the container gardening forum and 549 in the house plants forum. Al or no Al in the search results, that's still a staggering 3873 pages of long and short discussions to go through before finding the information you need.

Seasoned growers or not, that's a mammoth task to undertake to process the important info and index them out. I would like to invite you, and everyone else if you happen to encounter crucial threads that are worthy of a highlight, compile them in an email, forward them to me, or pm me if you like. That way all I need to do is consolidate them.

Onlytheclassy - I truly believe the advise that every member gives here are genuinely well-natured and are for the benefit and longevity of our plants.

I've noticed some members seem to think if one hasn't immediately followed the advice on gritty mix it's because they don't truly care for their plants.

Budget is an important issue, and it will always boils down to how much one is willing to invest? Time or money, they don't always go hand-in-hand together exclusively. But the most important value is knowledge, because no amount of time and money can accrue that but through real life experience. Though sometimes the advise givers might sound like they are giving death threats to beginners at knife point to only switching to the gritty mix or some variation of the gritty mix, it must be made known that it came from a good place, but I can empathize your point as I had gone through a good part of that learning curve myself too.

Note taken - I will include some short quick fixes or budget options, which I believe Rina is really good and creative mentioning them in some thread quite recently. Maybe I can quote her as a source.

Thanks Nomen, as mentioned all information posted here have been archived in my email or computer in some form or another. I would love to include you as part of the admin team in this FAQ for your knowledge, and we all love your comments and advice provided and helping many countless beginners here.

Margaret/Nomen - I'm sure there is that endless debate on gritty mix and moisture control.. in fact, there is one written by Kevin right here, and it is on my subway reading bookmark. I personally feel that Al's gritty mix is a great base for plants in general, but the beauty of it is that it can be modified - as not all of my plants thrive equally even if my soil were equal parts, screened of the appropriate size and components. I do agree that jades definitely do better with more fines and minerals in the soil.

HellKitchenguy - We haven't seen you in a while! Please keep us updated on how delightful your plants are doing!

Dave - I take no camps in the Gritty Mix debate, at the end of the day, like you said, it requires one's experience and knowledge in knowing how to water and understanding their plants needs to grow them well in any sort of soil/mixes. I personally have rotted plants in the gritty mix, underwatered and desiccated plants in the gritty mix and I am still continuously learning and modifying to make various mixes work for me, my plants and my environment. But in order to do so, it takes a reasonable amount of investment of time, reading, experiment, money and experience to know what and how to modify. So I believe this FAQ can provide that platform and help growers make their own informed decisions.

Bernard

Quote: I would love to include you as part of the admin team in this FAQ for your knowledge

My understanding is that Houzz already has an admin team and has no intentions of inviting members to be as such .

As I am more' experienced in some species of succulents I also have very limited experiences with other species of succulents With this in mind I think you should consider other folks be part of a ' FAQ ' who offer more cultivating epxperiance in a particular species where others ( like my self) are lacking in cultivating experiences

A general type of succulent type would also be a reasonable manner to sorting out a FAQ IE should a new updated ( basic guidelines) FAQ be limited to just Jades ? Or does the same FAQ basics guidelines include all Crassulacea

it's almost like a can of worms Bernard as not all Crassuleaceas are cultivated in the same timing manners as crassula/ jades.

Quoted : and we all love your comments and advice provided and helping many countless beginners here.

First off ' we" is not just you ( Bernard) I also say a few things that are a bit out of line from time to time and some times I say things thinks that help people to rethink & I know I even say things that have some people shake there heads in wonder. ( To easy to answer that one, it's yes believe it or not ! I live on the same Earth as all others ) What I mean is What you find helpful from me isn't found helpful as someone else reads the same exact words from me.

Some folks think they have a copyright and others are to follow copyright laws stating again ( re-saying word for word) what they wrote. Fact is nobody owns what they posted here and surrender all copyright infringements in accordance to copyrighting laws, meaning. If you find something helpful in any of the postings you are already allowed to use it ( word for word with out any credit to it's origin) as long as those words and or pics remain with in the Houzz forum with out ( any posting member(s) ) approval. See also forum TOS

Requoted : we all love your comments

Basic suggestion for personal growth FAQ Try allowing each person to speak for themselves then you can be thankful for what they say. In some cases some folks are/ and can be..... even more thankful for words that someone doesn't say.

Based on my interpretation of Houzz terms of use, I retain all copyright of my work and photos posted here in the forums.

Only that Houzz gains all non-exclusive rights for anything I post as well. But this does not apply to other forum users.

"You hereby grant to Houzz and our affiliates, licensees and sublicensees, without compensation to you or others, a non-exclusive, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, fully paid-up, worldwide license..." - Houzz Terms of Use.

One important aspect (as a photographer) are my rights, which is why I looked into it before posting anything.

I know this is not directly the topic of this thread, but it is a courtesy to credit those whose work you repost.

You hereby grant to Houzz and our affiliates, licensees and sublicensees, without compensation to you or others, a non-exclusive, perpetual, irrevocable, royalty-free, fully paid-up, worldwide license..." - Houzz Terms of Use.

Which means no person will be paid any monetary amounts by houzz for any pics or comments Also means that any person or persons are allowed to use same wording as another person with and with out permits and with out protest of the original parties statement

Example Bernard can choose any words or comments that are already in existence on the forum while giving zero credit to the original parties statement

Granted he is allowed to say thanks to any persons comments ( such thanks to a party would be a bit non FAQ ) that he chooses to re-post he is not obligated to say thanks

Example : FAQ By thanking person X is the manner one uses to get succulent X to maintain health and grow with vigor

We really cant put words in a TOS that aren't in it to clarify the same TOS .There is no mentioning of any person is required to ask to use any other persons words and then use the very same words in this or any other forum with or with out a TOS. In nut shell Bernard doesn't need or is required to ask any persons if he can use prior posted comments Non- exclusive simply means Houzz doesn't make claims to own any of the words nor should any individual make claims to owning what they said both past or present.

Although there are some individuals ( accurate as the words may be ) simply don't appreciate being worded word for word unless they say it on a topic of there own. Granted the use of same word is often upsetting to the person who doesn't get copyrights on what they said is something they should have considered before joining the forum.

I don't think by posting my photos here you can just take them and use them for whatever you please; such as commercial sale/use.

Nomen, are you a Houzz employee or affiliate, licensee, or sublicensee?

In Canada, law is that a copyright is on my work when I create it. No disclaimer required.

I don't think by posting my photos here you can just take them and use them for whatever you please; such as commercial sale/use.

That's correct and would be highly frowned on by some Houzz members and is a bad business practice. Yet at times such actions do happen as there is no possible way to stop a non forum member person from copying your pics and use them as part of ads for there own personal gain. It's a good idea to make your posted photos water marked or dated or posted in a manner that has such culprits not want to use them for self gaining reasons.

Pic posted fallacies onto this site from another and or any pics from this site posted to another is a matter for the individual of original pic to pursue.

Such frowned on actions ( regarding pics) are the primary reason why I choose not to post pics of rare species plants in my collection. I also choose no forum member be scammed ( pay a high end price )for a plant you'll never get from a cheating ( plant or) succulent vendor operating in a different internet site with a different TOS.

I am not employed or affiliated to Houzz in any way shape or form. I agreed to the same TOS you agreed to ( Written and underwritten with legal stipulations in accordance to USA laws )

Canada, law is that a copyright is on my work when I create it

Well I live in USA and just rewrote word for word exactly what Mayo said with out any consent, nor will I paying any fees to any one for the use of exact wordings in italics and will not use these words for any (monetary) gain

According to Mayo and the Canadian laws I am now guilty of copyright infringements ? Does any one member have a right to protest me because I used your exact words with out giving any credit ? Said protesting is subject to be considered a violation of the same TOS that they also agreed to.

Like any other person living on the planet earth that is a member of houzz
I simply don't need to give anyone any credit because they already agreed to not want any gains or credits for what they said.

Nomen - Pedantics aside, since you are in the USA, the Federal Copyright Act of 1976 applies.

Thanks for the quote and credit for my helpful statement.

I agree that watermarks can help, but I still have many images stolen by other companies selling products (not plant related) over the years. And I have gotten them to take them down over unauthorized use. Sadly your non-posting policy is the most effective one.

Which is a real shame because nearly all of us are here to help each other and share in the enjoyment of growing.

Mayo : the Federal Copyright Act of 1976 applies.

here is a challenge to the copy right act:

I say in few words the XYZ plant looks as though it may have been over watered Then I start a line or two regarding the usual good draining soil concerns

According to the The copy right act of 1976 no other person is allowed to repeat or use in any form the same words or concerns with out my permission.

And then I post a pic of an Aloe

( Like this one )

the same copy rights act of 1976 can also read ( or states ) no one person than me is allowed to post a pic of the same aloe and say it's a Aloe cv. Christmas carol

In accordance to the copyright act of 1976 nobody not even you can say nice aloe cause I already said nice plant ?

Try understanding that the copyright act of 1976 also limits a certain freedom of speech and a freedom of choice that plant cultivating enthusiast want and sometimes insit that their words and experiences are also free to share.

I don't think the above is a correct interpretation of the Act; I'd look further at the 'Fair Use' portions.

Nomen, I like how you set it up as a challenge here regarding certain issues of copyright and the legality for citation of sources. I'm sure there are many restrictions or laws as such, but afterall this is only a forum page where hobbist comes together to share their knowledge and joy for these plants. It's funny how we all here talk about quoting sources, but yet the forum doesn't offer a simple functionality of quoting members like other forums do. I agree that what I found useful from your advice, but others might not. There are no one size fits all answer as Crenda had mentioned, but the point is, many beginners come here to seek help or learn something out of other members willingness to share. I personally am not concern about opinions, in fact everyone should be entitled one, at the end of the day it's not about who's right or wrong, but about the people who can benefit from the resource as a support group, just like how we go about address new members issuing in the forums currently, but perhaps in a more streamlined manner and hopefully more helpful. As mentioned, I was thinking along the line in writing this FAQ in entirety on google docs as a file, and share it here as a link or can be easily distributed via links to new members.

Nomen - if you do not wish to impart some of your knowledge, especially your experiences on some very great growing genus, I shall not implore you any further. Afterall, we are only volunteers to ideas that we stand for.

The copyright act protects an author of a titled book and other things like music composing film productions ect

Bernard Hence the same confusion is why the forum has no current plant cultivating updated FAQ

IE as you said ( and I quote)experiences on some very great growing genus.

Imagine a new person asking a question with or with out pics.. Does one genus suggest in comments a plan of action or does a different genus suggest to the same question responding with read an FAQ .

Copyrights is the reason why nobody can re-invent the wheel even if it where possible it would probably be called a cog.

Your doing a good thing in developing an updated FAQ as the confusing part of understanding what is and what isn't copy written.

Keep it simple some plants have to much chit chat ( IMO) IE Is it a Species or is it a genus with in the species with in the same family or is it it's own type Sorting out if it has a family and then what is it's tribe can also confuse the beginner who simply wants a nice looking plant that flowers ( or then again the succulent might not flower for a few hundred years )

Are those pins spikes or thorns on a cacti ? Why don't the holiday cacti have none and are still a cacti ?

A sneak peek of another succulent I have

Copyright acts and laws in accordance to Mayo's wording to me prohibit me and anyone else from telling anyone what this one is ( Because it's name is clearly stated and can be found in books and encyclopedias or does the alleged wisdom status you mention allow me to say it's a ......

I think this FAQ is a great start, and I hope the project doesn't get
scrapped - I've just started poking around in this specific forum and I
wish it were already fleshed out. (Especially sections that give basics about the different families/genera/whatever make sense.)

I only discovered the GardenWeb forums in late November or early December, and I've now read through dozens and dozens of threads (primarily in House Plants, but in some of the more specific forums, too), but this is the first thread I've seen anyone mention there even is a "FAQs" link in any forum. I hadn't noticed it myself because the FAQs link blended in with other things on the page :\

Having one place to refer to basics would be fantastic, especially if the "basics" provide links to discussions/other websites that go into greater detail. They don't compete with each other, they complement each other. It could make finding the details so much easier! I saw mention of a 5-1-1 (or 7-1-1?) mix recently, and tried to search the forums to get the details and found pages and pages referring to it before finally finding a recipe. I'm sure people looking for details on the gritty mix have the same frustration, unless someone links them to one of the threads where Al has described it.

I've been bookmarking lots and lots and LOTS of threads related to various plants I keep, but most of what I need right now is pretty basic info, and I'd rather refer to one FAQ section than have to either ask basic questions people have probably answered a dozen times, or spend lots and lots of time reading lots of threads (or other websites) to find the one that actually provides the info I'm looking for.

(This is not to say it replaces actual conversation, because there's benefit in asking for help/answering newcomer questions: having people provide reassurance, or deal with the exceptions to basics is something an FAQ or old thread can't do. I also do not regret having read so much here in search of basics - there is an incredible wealth of information in older discussions - but FAQs can be fantastic additional resources.)

Nomen - Not sure really why you have an issue with me? I do like the idea of a beginner FAQ and have shared a lot of my own information and findings here for others to use.

If I wasn't into helping others and trying to expand my own knowledge, I think I could just bugger off and leave the forums.

Even though your post on this thread read you have a copyright to every word you type You seem to not understand that you surrendered your copyrights when you agreed to the TOS .

First off I don't even know you and certainly don't have an ' issue' with you Yet in your own words you say you favor an FAQ and have also stated that you have copyrights to the words you type on this forum seems somewhat odd. , wouldn't you agree ?

I do understand I am providing all rights to Houzz, but as per TOS I also retain my own copyright. This is why I liked the Houzz TOS.

I also do not think it's odd that I am in favour of a FAQ? I think it's odd that we are arguing for no reason at all and it's not the first time.

Quoted: I think it's odd that we are for no reason at all and it's not the first time.

You think there is an augment ? Another person thinks there is more than one opinion being tossed back and forth ( History of GW FAQ ) want a better looking succulent than the one you just posted ? Cultivating tips ? Any info at all ? Read the FAQ

Or you could poke it with that trusty stick thats often a suggestion or toss it on a gram scale or you can option to do nothing or do some research or put it under lights or set it on the sill or .... you can carry on with the doubts of doing anything at all

if you do something to improve the succulent that had been suggested then someone else suggest do nothing or they suggest do something else .. Being which an opinion or an augment ?

Shameless BUMP, and a serious question: Is there a way for me to FAVORITE this thread so I can keep coming back to it?

Depending on your browser you can book mark it or add it to your tool bar There are also other ways.