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help choosing between 3 blossoming trees

10 years ago

I live in Zone 6 in Ontario Canada. The town has kindly offered to plant a tree to replace a diseased ash tree on the north side of our house. I requested a blossoming tree and they have provided me with a choice of one of three: Japanese tree lilac, flowering pear (no fruit), or Service berry. I would be interested in opinions on these choices. Particularly how long the blooming period is, whether they have a good fall colour, and whether there is any nice scent. Also, I have some other trees nearby and they are sometimes much affected by the wind in terms of lots of branches coming down during storms. This is not such a big concern for me, though it would be good to know if any of these species will have the same problem. Any advice or experience to share is much appreciated.

Comments (21)

  • 10 years ago

    Flowering pear tend to be vulnerable to wind and ice storms. They have a scent to the flowers some find unappealing...though I can't say I've noticed. Many varieties have good fall color, though.

    Serviceberry is the most "Earth Friendly" option...it's a North American native birds like.

    Do you know what species of pear or serviceberry?

    actuary thanked edlincoln
  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    hi edlincoln, thanks for sharing that info. I plan to get more specifics on Monday and will share what species/variety then. The town is open to other species suggestions as well if they are hearty, and I imagine not too hard for them to procure. I just was hoping for something not too big with nice spring blossoms as a starting idea.

    There are a couple of neighbourhood cats that visit our yard and I think they may keep the vole population down. I like birds but worry I might be attracting them into a dangerous situation. So much to think about for one little tree.

  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Definitely remove flowering pear from the list, they are invasive in your area, and I am not aware of any that have no fruit.

    If you're looking for smaller size and spring blossoms, serviceberry is one of the best options. Generally, the birds pick the fruit off while it's still on the tree. Assuming it's a single stem tree planted by the street, cats getting the birds shouldn't be an issue. Autumn Brilliance, Cumulus, and Spring Flurry are some good varieties.

    Flowering cherry might be another option. Varieties like Okame, Pink Flair, or Sargent shouldn't be too difficult for your town to find.

    actuary thanked arbordave (SE MI)
  • 10 years ago

    Thanks for the additional tips. Very interesting about the flowering pear and will avoid that. We have no sidewalk, so the section of yard that might be mainly town boulevard and sidewalk for someone else ends up extending well up into our yard. So, while the new tree will not be close to road, I can confirm with the town that it will have one stem and branches not too close to ground. I see on the internet that at least some types of service berry have good autumn colour (autumn brilliance must be one of them.)

    One of our trees in the past was a choke cherry I believe. I recall that one year a spectacular profusion of blossoms was followed by some kind of black fungus and then the town had that tree removed. I saw a lot of other varieties of more ornamental cherry trees with this black fungus at that time too so I would worry about cherry trees though I love their appearance in spring,

    I thought of another consideration for choosing a tree as well. I like to plant perennials ike heuchera and lamium under some of our trees, but the other trees are quite mature. In particular I planted perennials under the ash tree that died. Those were surely killed when the stump was removed. In any event, the previous perennials were quite happy there, though I did water them fairly regularly. I imagine I should not plant anything under a new tree. Perhaps it depends on how deep the tree roots?


  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Cherry trees are notoriously short lived and prone to disease.

    Alleghany Serviceberry (Amelanchier laevis) is one of the few serviceberries that grow as a single trunked tree. Many other varieties are shrubs. Someone once suggested it to me as a tree that is wind resistant.

    Tree Lilac has the most "showy" flowers of the options you discussed.

    Most flowering pears that "don't have fruit" are really self-infertile clones of a species of flowering pear not many cultivars of are grown in the US. Since they are clones and self-infertile, they can't interbreed and don't set fruits without a pollinator. Once one person introduces a different cultivar of that species into the area, however, they can interbreed and produce lots of tiny fruit that birds spread into the ecosystem.

    Are overhead power lines an issue? This would be planted in a lawn, not a well in the sidewalk? Is your street aggressive in the use of road salt?

    Hawthorne has been recommended to me as a tree that is wind-resistant...it has berries that persist into winter and small flowers. I understand some kinds of dogwood and crabapple have good fall color and are wind resistant.

    Other options for flowering trees are sourwood (Great fall color and summer flowers but temperamental) Redbud (great spring flowers, no berries, and disease resistant but short lived and vulnerable to wind) Yellowood (great flowers every other year and fall color but bad crotch angles make it vulnerable to wind), Sweetbay Magnolia.

    actuary thanked edlincoln
  • 10 years ago

    That is so helpful. Learning more about the precise issue with the flowering pear, I now plan to politely share that with the town staff member in charge of this and maybe hopefully have a beneficial influence on other future plantings elsewhere.

    No power line issue or well in sidewalk. Nice big space for the tree. One would never think the tree belongs to the town because it will be sitting on such a big patch of our lawn, which really belongs to the town but you would never know it. We live on a corner with no power lines on the north side of the house where the tree is to be planted and a minor protected forested area across the road from the west side of the house.

    I should also mention that the soil is an awful hard clay. Every year I bring in a lot of mulch to put on the perennial beds to help amend things.

  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    actuary - yes, chokecherries are quite susceptible to "black knot" disease, but the cherry varieties I mentioned generally grow well in our region, and are relatively resistant to diseases and pests. Also, fruiting is sparse. Japanese beetles can be a problem on cherries if the beetles are plentiful in your local neighborhood. But if your clay is poorly drained, cherries wouldn't be happy there.

    Another early spring flowering tree to consider is Corneliancherry Dogwood. There is a variety called 'Golden Glory' that has upright form.

    actuary thanked arbordave (SE MI)
  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    I would either plant a Brandywine crabapple, a flowering cherry, or a quince tree.

    There are two types of quince: flowering quince and fruiting quince. Fruiting quince actually makes an attractive ornamental tree too, with its big yellow fruits, hard as wood that stay on the tree for a long time. The fruit from fruiting quince gives off a wonderful fragrance that wafts through the yard too. The flowers of fruiting quince are not much less attractive than flowering quince, the main difference is just they are white in color. You can see I'm trying to sell you on fruiting quince, hahaha.

    You might also consider Prunus mume (flowering apricot). see picture here.

    actuary thanked parker25mv
  • 10 years ago

    Wow thanks for all the intriguing suggestions. I did not see the flowering apricot picture so perhaps you can try uploading that again if it is not too much trouble.

    However, I keep thinking of more potential challenges to the location for the proposed tree beyond the soil quality. The other issue is plentiful aphids. It is one thing to spray a small plant or vine with soap solution, but trying to keep the things off a tree that attracts them seems another matter. In my experience, the ladybugs don't tend to arrive until the aphid situation is completely out of control. If anyone knows whether aphids tend to afflict any of these tree types mentioned, that would be helpful information.

  • 10 years ago

    Actuary, click on the word here in Parker's post. It's highlighted in, hard to see, green.

    mike

    actuary thanked Mike McGarvey
  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Prunus mume is probably marginally hardy here, and like many Prunus (including those I mentioned above) dislikes heavy clay. See 1st paragraph at this link: http://www.missouribotanicalgarden.org/PlantFinder/PlantFinderDetails.aspx?kempercode=d115

    If the priority is small size and spring flowers, for heavy clay soil I'd lean toward a Crabapple or Redbud. The redbud should be a northern provenance.

  • 10 years ago

    Sorry I got confused about that link. I saw the picture of the prunus. Very pretty. Oh well, it somehow does not surprise me that apricot would not grow in my yard-- it just sounds too exotic. This may be an ignorant comment, but I remember so many tent caterpillars on a crab apple tree in my yard growing up. Perhaps varieties like Brandywine don't have that issue?

  • 10 years ago

    Most common flowering trees that can live in places with real winters are part of the genus rosacea or prunus, which tend to be vulnerable to insects. I know crabapple, and cherry are particularly vulnerable to tent caterpillars.

  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Yes, crabapples (and cherries) are susceptible to tent caterpillars, but they're not something you'd see every year, and when they do appear they're easy to control. You may also see an occasional pest on redbud and serviceberry, but in general they don't have serious pest issues (although verticillium wilt on redbud can be serious).

    Where in ON are you - do you have a lake effect with consistent snowfall that might enable you to grow marginal species like P. mume ? How bad is your clay soil - is it poorly drained or does it drain reasonably well?

  • 10 years ago

    Thanks for the additional tips. I live one block from the north side of Lake Ontario near Toronto but I believe my garden could wish for more consistent snowfall. As for the clay, it is not like there are puddles of water ever anywhere. Also I think when they removed the stump it may help get a new tree started because the old tree stump was quite big and they filled that whole area in with good soil.

  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    That could go either way, actually. If you replace a section of soil with something else, it can cause drainage problems...water has trouble crossing the interface of the soil types, or something. (I don't fully understand the physics of it). Why they don't recommended amending the soil when planting trees anymore.

    I'm worried we're overwhelming you here. If you want to go the "path of least resistance" and choose a tree off the list, Serviceberries are good native trees. I don't know much about lilac trees but they have the "showiest" flowers of the trees suggested and no one here has really said anything bad about them. Also smell nice.

    Stay away from Bradford or Callery pear. (If that's the ornamental pear they are suggesting....we may be wrong about that.)

    People are going to throw things at me for saying this, but if you have
    had a lot of cherries have to be removed because of disease in your area
    and have clay soil, stay away from cherries and the genus "prunus". It's just borrowing trouble, and there are so many other options. I'm sure there are ones that would do well there, but there are so any other, safer options for your area.

    If you want to go "off list", crab apples are a good option. Prairifire Flowering is interesting.

    A couple people have suggested redbud...they don't handle wind or ice
    well, but because they are NOT members of the genus prunus or rosacea
    they are subject to a completely different set of problems then the
    crabapple and cherries. Very pretty. The straight species can survive
    that far North, but many of the fancy cultivars can't.

    Some "Earth Friendly" options are trees native to Ontario...Showy Mountain-Ash is native to your area and has pretty berries, Eastern flowering dogwood is also native to your area. Both are somewhat prone to disease.

    Personally, If I were to fight the city to go "off list" it would be to get something big and unusual. The list is all tiny trees probably selected with tiny tree wells under power lines in mind. If you don't have overhead wires and the tree won't be forced to live in a tiny tree well, that's prime space for a bigger option. This tree is replacing an ash, and ash trees are a heck of a lot bigger then quince or serviceberry. I think a lot of people are visualizing a more restricted space when they come up with options.

  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    ed makes a good point about the soil - if the new soil in the stump hole sits low and is surrounded by dense clay that doesn't drain, then the site will tend to hold water. But if the surrounding clay drains reasonably well, and the stump site is above grade, you'll probably be OK.

    Tree lilacs would grow well there, but they flower later (June), and their fragrance isn't as nice as the shrub lilacs. China Snow tree lilac has attractive bark.

    Prairiefire crab has become more susceptible to scab disease. There are a number of better scab-resistant cultivars available.

    Redbuds from a northern provenance should be OK. Southern strains are more likely to have trouble here in the north.

    The native mountainash species (americana and decora) are technically not native to the Toronto area, and they have a number of pest & disease issues. Korean mountainash has fewer pest/disease issues, but isn't widely available.

    There are hardy and disease resistant hybrid cultivars of flowering dogwoods that should be OK there.

    You could also check with local experts. Maybe try this arboretum: http://www.humberarboretum.on.ca/sites/pages/index1.html

  • 10 years ago

    Thanks for the further advice. The town tree guy seems very easygoing and not opposed to different suggestions. But I think I better get back to him soon. My only remaining question is to ask why mountain-ash is being suggested? Is this not susceptible to the ash borer that killed all the ash trees around here including the one being replaced?

    At this point I am leaning toward the service berry after all, but I will also inquire about the red bud because I am convinced I have seen a few examples of this tree nearby looking quite healthy.

    As for why I am looking for small trees, we already have 3 big town trees (by no means anything exotic) among the trees surrounding our house. My kids' schoolmates have sometimes referred to our house as "the house in the forest". I like it this way but also the big trees need to be trimmed because their branches reach our roof and it is difficult to get the town to come by and do that regularly.

  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Mountainash (Sorbus) aren't related to ash trees (Fraxinus)

    actuary thanked arbordave (SE MI)
  • 10 years ago

    Common names are a bit deceptive. Mountain ash is actually not even remotely related to the "true" ashes and thus not susceptible to EAB. It's actually more closely related to apples and susceptible to all sorts of other insects...Mostly tossed that one out because it is a North American native that looks pretty and does well in the north.

    Redbuds rarely get sick. Their flaw is they can get physically damaged by the weather. They tend to disintegrate in ice storms. Some of the "fancy" cultivars (eg "Forest Pansy") don't do well in cold weather in the North. So they look healthy until a big storm physically destroys them. (In which case they may grow back from the roots),

    actuary thanked edlincoln