HOAs may be fine for some people who like the uniformity and aesthetics of a "village" look. But, frankly, why spend $300 a month on HOA fees? My goodness, for that you can buy a pool and a gardner.

I totally agree Darzy! My daughter lives in one of the most affluent areas in Virginia, near Dulles International Airport and not very far from D.C. Paying for HOA's seems to be the normal for her.

ideas for updating this fireplace? going for a tasteful rustic look

Unfortunately, HOA's are a necessary evil in so many cases. Money does not buy class and there are some that will move into a beautiful neighborhood and have no house pride.

I have condo assoc. in all my condos. One gated and 1 not. Believe me, it is so much better to have the grounds taken care of by the assoc. Because many of the residents are snowbirds and who knows if they would keep up their places in pristine condition. Also some actually rent their places and most renters will let things slide. And you need assoc approval on renting,

My last gated community painted all the units about a year before I moved. I thought the colors were horrible, but when it was finished, I really liked it.

The place I am now is just one building with 18 units. So the assoc dues are higher. But it includes garbage, water, all outside maint. and building ins.

Yes, some of the rules are pathetic, but they are established by the owners.

Back to etiquette... I know not as exciting as HOA's-lol. Why do people invite you over for dinner and tell you what time it will be served and then when you arrive they tell you all the fun they had that day and ended up getting home later than planned so dinner is running much later (like 2 hrs) than planned. Since this has happened with a few different friends, I am wondering if it is bothering me because I wasn't having that fun with them or the fact that I wasn't important enough to them for them to get home and make the meal on time?? Or maybe I'm ornery because I haven't eaten and I'm starving and I will be eating much closer to bed time which means I won't sleep well, which means I'll wake up ornery. Next time this happens I'm going to suggest we go out for dinner and forget about making anything! Or maybe I need to find older friends who like to eat at the Senior hour of 5:00-lol.

That unfortunately happens a lot these days with all that people have to do in their lives Ted. Dinner at my house is always very prompt because I'm retired. The only time it is late is when we roast a chicken or turkey because we roast them in an oven bag and the bag is always off on roasting times.

You're so right Susan that money doesn't buy class. Most upscale neighborhoods look upscale by the sheer fact that they are "upscale". If purchasing a condo with HOAs helps with the uniform look you like, I say go for it. It's just that many of us have a problem being told what to plant and what colors to paint our house. And frankly, HOA "pathetic' rules established by the owners can be exasperating! Politics and personal vendettas. geez. Here's hoping your HOA folks have taste and logic.

I have never lived in a neighborhood in a single family home that has an HOA. Almost all gated communities in FL have HOAs whether it's a single family or 2-4 unit building. Yes, you are correct, a lot of the board members are A*****. but they have control over a lot of things, so if you don't like it speak out and be active. The 10 years I lived in a gated community, I went with the flow as the inside was mine to do as I pleased and I just accepted everything else. Life is too short to spend my time moaning about what color my condo was painted. I did not have much of a private garden area, but I did remove all the plants that were there when I bought and replaced them with flowers and better shrubs. No one ever said anything, as it was very pretty.

I have never lived in a place with HOAs, just have lots of friends and family members who do. Around here HOAs are at least $800, but more like $1000/month.They are lovely communities, but too cookie cutter for me. It is necessary to have uniformity though, can you imagine if everybody painted the color they thought looked good. Before buying a place with HOAs you should read the fine print. There is such a housing shortage around here, some people have no choice, especially in SF.

This is how much out of the loop I was--When my daughter and son-in-law purchased their house in Virginia was when I learned about HOA's and the rules they had. They purchased their house in 2005! I was living in the suburbs where we did not have HOA but we did have city ordinances that had some very simple and basic rules. Not letting your grass grow too tall; keeping your privacy fences mended and in good shape; not being allowed to park campers in your driveway; and if you needed your garage door, trim, and/or gables painted (all of the houses were made of brick), you did get a letter requesting you get this done. You were allowed to choose your paint colors but the city ordinances were there so that the people living there could keep their property values up where they should be.

Our community of residential homeowners have CCRs which have generic rules like no parking a motorhome or trailer or boat in front of your house. I DO like that rule. Most of the time a good neighborhood knows better than to park a camper, boat or trailer in front of their house. I do know people who LOVE the rules of an HOA and it works for their personality of uniformity and "order". Just not for me.

In a condominium where buildings and land are shared, Associations are necessary. To speak to Ted's point about this thread being about etiquette, the complaints are either that rules are indiscriminately enforced, either to an extreme or overlooked altogether, but the biggest problem is the unfriendly and unprofessional, rather hostile manner in which many are managed by board members, who are neighbors, and even hired management companies.

When I complained of ice damming before I was on the board, they had the essentially new roof re-shingled, wasting $5,000, insisting the moisture was from a leak, when I had multiple contractors saying insulation was the issue. The president refused to address insulation issues, even if they were causing problems like pipes freezing and ice damming. Another owner discovered his unit had NO insulation in the attic. In the end, between roofing, drywall, and finally installing missing baffles and insulation, the Association probably spent $10,000 on repairs on my unit alone that could have been made for $1,000.

In the short times I served on the board, I immediately addressed concerns in a friendly, neighborly, understanding, and TIMELY manner, even though most requests had a hostile tone because the previous board would fix nothing and I demanded that we resolve issues. I could sense people's frustrations calming down. But every board meeting was such a contentious battle, board members were drunk and combative, the old guard attacking me because they didn't want to pay for necessary repairs. I reached a point where I'd get anxiety attacks before meetings or even before retrieving Association mail. Having school aged children, I didn't need the aggravation. No good deed went unpunished so I quit and walked out. We still haven't deserved the aggravation. Living here has been terribly disruptive to our quality of life and our family.

We moved here from out of state for my husband to continue training. We purchased our condo because it was only 1 yr old and we planned to be here for only three years and we did not want to be in a rental environment, and with toddlers and my husbands 16/hr. day schedule, I liked that I wouldn't have to worry about exterior maintenance. The dues were worth it to me and I'd spend that amount of money on lawn care, snow removal and water anyway since I couldn't do it myself and I'd hire them out anyway. And our unit was new and more spacious than most houses in the area with water views so a good investment we thought. We never planned to live here as long as we have, but when the market tanked and my husband had a good opportunity here, and our children had settled here, we decided to stay.

Unfortunately, our housing market here stinks. Nothing like South Florida where I grew up or the Philadelphia suburbs from where we moved. It took us years to find a home in this area in which we were willing to invest and renovate as few are move in ready. We have been under renovation far too long but we will soon have our dream home.

I just want to say thank you for listening, and commiserating. I'm dreading the meeting next week, but I need issues addressed prior to listing or I would stay home. Ted is right, though, many will overlook things I know are wrong and see our unit for what is on the inside. The people here wear me down so much, I feel like I must be wrong when I know I'm not.

Good luck, J K, and I hope these horrid memories fade fast when you move into your new home. Not long now.

J K - I'm so sorry to hear what all you have been through! Your home is supposed to be your sanctuary--a place to get away from it all. Here's hoping that when you move into your dream home, you and your family will be very happy and most important, peaceful.

After a family Christmas dinner my brothers small son had on a pair of black dress shoes that I noticed were leaving scuff marks on the hardwood floors. I spent all the next day on my hands and knees cleaning those scuff marks off the floor. After that the request was for all to bring slippers. That was a tough chore.

Why in the world do overnight guests sleep on TOP of the bed? A guest recently bled on an expensive pillow sham!
It's not a fussy bed with tons of pillows.... Just peel back the covers and sleep on the sheets, those can be washed!

Wow. Don't know why anyone would sleep on top of the covers instead of on the sheets. At one family party at my house, however, I had just bought a new bed for a guest room and had covered it with a mattress pad and then with the bedspread, thinking I would go back and put the sheets on right before company came. But I forgot. And our guests were too wasted to notice. They slept on bare pillows, under the spread and on the mattress pad, which I didn't realize till I went in to strip the bed after they left. I called and apologized and they laughed and told me they were just lucky to find the bed that night.

After being a guest for dinner, I refuse to help clear the table and dishes! I don't let my guests touch a dirty plate, much less put their hands in dirty dishwater. The only exception I would make is for a mother with small children or an incapacitated person.

Among black Africans where I live it is almost automatic that the women guests go into the kitchen and commence washing up (at least if it's done by hand). They are likely to give the kitchen a quick wipe-down, too. Simple courtesy in that culture. I've more than once had the dishes washed up (after admittedly informal lunches) before I even knew it.

Incidentally, when I was receiving visits after my husband died, that applied to my boss's wife, too -- who was a pretty upper crust kind of person. Now that I did not expect.

Among white S Africans it's more usual for the guests to offer to help with washing up -- if they are close friends, one might say yes, if not, one declines and leaves the dishes until they are gone. Again, however, it's usually the women who offer. Hmmm. Wonder why?

Interesting thread - to chime in on a couple of things -- dishes -- I usually rinse them &load the dishwasher as I'm getting coffee & tea ready after the meal. To be honest, I prefer to load them myself so I can fit them all in properly. Often someone else will help taking things from the table though, as I do when I'm eating at friends'. Re shoes -- we pretty much automatically take off around here (Canada), but I wouldn't understand someone feeling upset if I asked them politely (& offered slippers) if they didn't do it automatically (unless reason like prosthetic mentioned above or elderly who require shoe for balance, etc). After all, as a hostess, I want my guests to be comfortable. As a guest, I certainly appreciate the trouble they've already gone to with the meal, etc, & definitely don't want them to have extra clean up the next day -- possibly even steaming carpets, & so on. Each other's company is the point of the evening together, so why would a guest worry more about their outfit perfectly matching their dirty shoes than about saving the hostess the extra carpet cleaning work? (I'm assuming hostess & guest are friends who care about each other). When invited to a party or dinner, we arrive clean, so sweaty, oily feet are not an issue, but stepping in bird poo raccoon urine or whatever between car & house is possible.

Here's my question. I have a small 2 bed/1 bath condo in the bay area where space is a premium. I'm lucky to have a large walk-in shower with plenty of shelf space in the bathroom. I travel for work every week and have a small collection of hotel amenities I keep for when I have guests. So when guests arrive, I put out fresh towels and packaged soap and shampoo as if they were staying in a hotel. Invariably when I walk in the bathroom the next morning, the amenities I put out are untouched and clearly my guests used my used bar soap and specialty hair products. A friend suggested I take my own products out of the shower if I don't want guests using them. How do others handle overnight guests in small spaces?

@nocal gal, how about when they arrive, you mention, in a friendly half-joking kind of way "welcome to Hotel xxxx, I've put out some soaps & shampoos. I hope I haven't missed anything, but be sure to let me know if there'sanything I forgot"..maybe that'd draw attention to it?

There is also the possibility that your guests brought their own toiletries and kindly did not leave them in your bathroom, but put them back in their travel bag in their room. You can only hope...

NoCalGal....I tell my guests to make themselves at home. So, I would only put stuff in the shower you are willing to share.

I bring my own toiletries...if I were sharing the bathroom with my guests, I would remove my personal items and leave options for my guests in case they did not bring their own or forgot something.

I always bring my own toiletries no matter who I am staying with, including my daughter. She does the same and for my granddaughter.

Sleeping on top of the bed is just too weird! I do have to remove whatever bedspread or comforter that is on the bed, whether it's in a hotel or I'm staying with my daughter since I get too hot at night. I do however sleep with at least a top sheet on and maybe a light blanket.

No Cal, maybe they thought they were being nice not spoiling yout pretty display for a couple uses.and leaving it for someone else..... argh, Id hate to use somebody else's used soap.

But still you could just make it light and say there are plenty more where these came from and to just use with abandon....

Years ago, my husband and I were very good friends with a couple (I went to church and school with the wife). They lived south of Dayton and we lived north. We loved getting together with them but it always had to be at their house. We only got them to come to ours a couple of times. We finally drifted apart and I have not seen them in over 20 years.

How about house & home & wedding etiquette? Is it ok to put parts of your re-model wish list on a wedding registry when you already have the linens, towels, wine glasses, etc?

I don't mind guests using my toiletries, but was shocked that someone used my razor to shave her legs, and did not rinse it. It was stuffed with black leg hair. Next time she stayed I made sure my razor was hidden. Gross!

Angie, I think not. I think it's a little off-putting already that one is expected to give gifts that the couple ask for—it's very impersonal, the fun of looking for something special or giving an heirloom is denied the giver. But to have it go to "we already have what we need, help us with our remodel," would feel like being asked to give cash. The two best wedding gifts I ever gave were ones I came up with myself, not looking at the registry. One was a very cool wine carrier from Argentina, filled with Argentine wine and set atop a tray full of pretty linens. Spent a great afternoon shopping for all of it, the niece who got it was very happy. The other was a covered cheese dish—large, a kind of delft blue, for another niece who, 17 years later, has built a collection of blue and white serving pieces around the one I bought her.

Angie, what's appropriate to ask for depends on the culture. For us, we would never dream of asking for cash directly. But when we got married, we told my Mum to let anyone know who asked, that we were saving for a house since we already had lots of stuff to put in one. Some guests chose to give objects and others chose to give cash. Both were gratefully and graciously accepted.

But in my family and circle of friends, everyone knows to ask the Mothers of the Bride & Groom what the couple needs to kick-start their life together. In other cultures, everyone knows to bring an envelope of cash. And others expect the wedding registry to be specified on the invitation.

If you've decided to go to the wedding, then you should choose a gift that represents the depth of your connection to the couple or their families. If you don't believe that your gift will be appreciated even if it's not on the "registry", then ask yourself a) why am I going to this wedding? and b) why is it more important to give a gift that you like rather than one the couple actually want?

If you are a bride, then make sure you are inviting people for themselves and not for what gift they are going to bring. I've been appalled at more that one bride or groom complaining that "the gift so-and-so brought didn't even cover the cost of her meal!". That's not the point.

Wedding etiquette is what most of the younger generation of the women in my family are lacking! I have been to weddings for female cousins and one of my nieces and none of them have ever sent me a thank-you card. I know that this is still part of wedding etiquette because I looked it up recently. After a wedding guest has spent time and money choosing a gift, the least the bride and groom can do is send a thank you card. That's all that is required!

When my youngest sister got married for the second time, I knew they did not need what most newly married couples needed--dishes, pans, linens, and so forth. I made her something she really loved that I had made for myself--a quilted Christmas wreath! I did get a lovely thank you note from her.

I think asking for money for a house or home remodel is the same as asking for a honey fund to contribute to the honeymoon. A little tacky. If I know a couple are just starting out and the gift registry has very basic things, no keepsake type China etc., I often give a nice big check. It depends on the situation.

any one who has put on a wedding knows that no one's gift covers the price of their meal... except perhaps that from grandparents. if you've not paid for a wedding in a while you have no idea whatsoever what it costs these days.

so, if you are invited, you've been invited because someone wanted you to be included. they are absolutely losing money on your being invited if its anywhere other than someone's back yard.

@nnigrt, Precisely! That's why I've been so appalled at the comment.

Thanks for the comments. elipres was correct. When I asked why they didn't use my amenities, they said they didn't want to use them up on me. I like her response. And I'll put liquid soap in and take my bar soap out for the duration.

After giving a big wedding last year with all the bells and whistles, it really opened my daughter's eyes to the lack of etiquette within her generation. She just went to a wedding of a very good friend, gave a beautiful gift, and got a " thank you text"!!!!!

All of the weddings that I have gone to except for my niece's wedding were just cake and punch at the reception, like I did at my own wedding almost 41 years ago. My niece did have food but it was casual--cold cut sandwiches, chips, and veggies plus wedding cake.

I come from a family without a lot of money so when someone gets married, it is pretty simple and basic. On my Mom's side of the family, her youngest sister, kids, and grandchildren are into having wedding's outside at a park, which is not a problem unless it's very hot and we are having very high humidity (around 80% or more). Again, I never get a thank you card!

Wow, appalled at the lack of thank you cards--always a must!! Our top registry item is going to be a raising funds for an underserved school we do a lot of work with for some specific items they need, but still several friends and family members have DEMANDED that we register for things.

My fiancee and I are a little older, but the cost of a basic wedding where the people we love most can come from across the country to meet each other and celebrate together means delaying our remodel in the home we recently purchased, hence the question. I would be thrilled to receive any hand made items, and as a crafter myself would treasure those gifts!

Is it ok to put your remodel wish list on the registry?

I think it is ok to put items like, skill saw or hammer or drill set if you are looking at a fixer upper. I don't think it's ok to put something like, "fund our new kitchen reno" on a registry.

I also don't like honeymoon registries, but I find myself in the minority.

Separate question - have you had a wedding in your home?

We have had 4. Each quite different from the others. My parents have a large house near the ocean with a pretty yard. Not huge, and you are near the street, but they have hosted weddings for 1) a daughter's bff; 2) a daughter; 3) a son and 4) a granddaughter.

Top tip is not really etiquette, but it is houzz related - hire a caterer! Don't assume because the guest list is small-ish that you can do the food yourself.

I know you mean well, Angie, but I would not appreciate a registry that included gifts to a certain charity. Good for you for supporting it, and feel free to raise funds outside of your wedding, but I prefer to support charities based on my choice, not feeling pressured by a wedding registry. Re home improvements, I'm with auntthelma, I don't like being solicited to fund a reno, honeymoons, new home, etc with cash, but if there are specific items that will be useful to the reno, sure add them to the registry. I'm probably the wrong person to ask though because I generally do like to choose my own gifts rather than pulling from a registry. When I got married a billion years ago, our registry was mostly dishes and flatware and the like, and we still have and use those sets (both everyday and formal) lo these 26 yrs later.

susan I also like to select a gift on my own without a registry. But I 'read the room.' I know one friend who would be upset if I didn't give her daughter a registry item, so I found something on the registry I liked and added a small gift of my own to it.

For others, I will review the registry and then, using it as a guideline, go find something beautiful.

One friend was married with a specific landmark as the backdrop/view. I found a painting with the landmark in it. One of my favorite gifts.

Bringing up the question of contributing to a specific charity. I volunteered for years at a non profit for children but find it difficult to ask others to donate to my specific cause. Those that knew me would ask, but I would not think of asking on a wedding registry. Yes gift registries are nice for families and friends who want to buy a wedding gift, but don't know the tastes of the couple.My daughter resisted a registry, but now that they have a home, are using all of their gifts from their registry.It's so sweet when we are at their home and she'll say so and so gave us this. It's way more meaningful than money. Some close relatives gave them money for their home, but most gave very thoughtful, special gifts.

Angie, if some of your guests feel lost without a wedding registry, then as a good host you should provide one. But since you're remodelling, register at Home Depot instead of Target.

Angie, I've just seen your top-of-the-list "registry" gift -- bless the two of you. That's wonderful.