I have Tarasenko 2, odessa and kmicic that I got from a seller on etsy that is in Ukraine in packages like that. I haven't tasted them yet but they're all growing very well- they were the first varieties to set fruit in my garden this year. Every seed I started germinated.

"Is something wrong with you?"

No, but there must be something wrong with anyone who accepts such a bad web page design and mindlessly attacks someone who doesn't. Ebay does a great job with its web page design.

"Is something wrong with you?"

I had to check it out and, although I really admire Tania and all the work that she has done on her fabulous tomato base, I have to admit that I find that tiny box rather claustrophobic! There must be something wrong with me!!!

Mind you, I don't have to scroll through the tiny box because I already know which tomato varieties I want to buy :P

Linda

The English names provided on the ebay pages are clearly loose translations of the Russian and something is lost in the translation. But some of them are very close to the common English names like "Bullock Heart Pink" could easily be Pink Bull's Heart, "Heart Bison" could easily be Bull's Heart, "Moskvich" is Moskvich, "Spaceman Volkov" is obviously Cosmonaut Volkov, Siberian Precocious could be Early Siberian, etc. all available from US vendors. But unless one was fluent in Russian it would just be a guess as to what you'd be getting.

And Tatiana's Tomatobase is actually quite easy to use and exceptionally informative as she offers numerous sub-categories of alphabetical, fruit size, fruit color, plant-type, country of origin (including over 1000 varieties originating in Russia), leaf type, growth habit, DTM, etc. not to mention an excellent search tool and seed ordering directly from every listing. You apparently only looked at the online catalog.

Dave

While I find Tatiana's tiny box not really so tiny (uh, that's the box that takes up about a third of her home page?), I also notice that the font size in that box is perfectly normal sized. When you feature more than a thousand varieties, you make some concessions in your web design that perhaps offend the claustrophobic. So just chill and enjoy.

I've ordered from Tatiana and find her service, knowledge, and quality highly praiseworthy.

Make that over 5000 thousand varieties and very likely more. :-)

Dave

I'm sure Tania is not going to cry over losing the likes of aruzinsky as a customer.

Sure, the shopping part of her website could be done better. But the seed-buying world tends to favor reputation and integrity over slickness of web design. I really cannot fathom giving business to random, unverifiable sources on eBay over someone like Tania, and the idea of being personally insulted by someone who devotes so much of her time to making information about tomatoes freely available to the public--and thinking that one' s personal sense of insult in this case is of any consequence--is simply laughable.

Yes, it says at the top of the box "1238 varieties matching search results", of which no search was specified. So I thought that was the total number. But I think you're right that the actual total listed varieties is something like 5000. Not completely sure how many of those are actually available at any given time.

Dave: "The English names provided on the ebay pages are clearly loose translations of the Russian and something is lost in the translation."

I actually chuckled to see Japanese Trifele Black translated as "Japanese tuber melanosporum".

I have purchased seeds from Tania for several years. Her integrity, professionalism and willingness to please knows no bounds. Her tomatodatabase is used by many of the State University agricultural research personnel who send her new varieties to test.

Using EBay you are relying on the sellers reputation. They may be reputable, or they may not. One tomato seed ordered last year had very poor germination rates. I mentioned this to Tania and she sent extra seed to make up for this problem. I will continue to utilize Tania's service. Even though her website is daunting, it has a tremendous amount of educational information. If only one will invest the time and patience to learn.......

Aruzinsky,

if you need to translate something in particular I can help you with it. Digdirt is right that some of the varieties are available in USA under similar names. The translation from Russian is kind of awkward and it makes me smile. Most of the varieties are new for me as well so I cannot really help with the advise. The seed packets belong to the reputable seed company Aelita, however some of those tomatoes might be duds and some might be good, who knows... I would also recommend to buy seeds from Tatiana. She grows her varieties herself and she checks if the variety is true to the description.

Oh, wow, I did not envision that Tania's website would be so controversial! It works great for me & she's very nice to email. Her Russian varieties (and all her others) are exactly as advertised with good germination. Who knows what's happened to the eBay packs before they get to you.

Well, as long as we're on the subject, I really dislike the label on my Southern Ag copper fungicide concentrate label. Really inartistic layout, insulting my sensibilities. I think I'll boycott them because of that! No, the fungicide works great, but I simply can't look at that label!!

WTG Dan!! Love it. :-)

Dave

I ordered one pack of

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tomato-The-King-of-giants-Russian-High-Quality-/291734253774?hash=item43ecb770ce:g:BgEAAOSwSzdXCnlG

and it cost me a fortune, $1.88, to find out whether it is a dud. Such risky behavior on my part. I am so excited, I might not even plant it until next year. That's what's wrong with me.

Incidentally, I noticed among my Russian acquaintances that they are unusually fond of satirical sarcasm. I assume it is a cultural thing arising from being brought up under an oppressive government.

Korol Gigantov gets good reviews on Tania's site. http://t.tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Korol_Gigantov

There is also good feedback on the variety on various threads on tomatoville over the past decade or so.

And nobody is saying you're taking some kind of absolute risk. Just that insulting Tania and saying eBay is a preferable source to someone like her just because you can't handle that her website isn't slick is ridiculous.

I buy seed from eBay on occasion when I can't find it from a vendor with a good reputation. It's a crapshootif you need it on any kind of schedule, can get held up/diverted in customs randomly if ordering internationally, and has about a 50% dud rate, although the seed in commercial packaging is usually fine as long as it's not very time-sensitive seed with short viability.

I often find that people who complain that others don't understand their irony are the most likely to not understand other people's irony themselves.

"Korol Gigantov gets good reviews on Tania's site. http://t.tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Korol_Gigantov"

Good. I observe that she isn't selling it this year and doesn't list other sellers. That's the best reason to buy it on Ebay.

"slick"

This is not synonym of "ergonomic." None of the above posters properly focused on the concept.

"box that takes up about a third of her home page"

I measured it and it depends on the screen resolution. For 1280x720, the box occupies 28% and, for 1920x1080, the box occupies 23.8%. The anti-ergonomic feature is that you have to use a control, e.g., mouse wheel, to see each item. It is more ERGONOMIC to scan several items with one's eyes before using controls. This is what is done on Ebay, especially with gallery view, e.g.,

http://www.ebay.com/sch/olzzzass2891/m.html?hash=item43ece1bd85%3Ag%3AbRkAAOSw%7EoFXDoo0&item=291737025925&_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=tomato+seeds+russian&rt=nc&_dmd=2

More importantly, I can't find Tatiana's shipping and handling costs. Is she hiding these costs until she has your personal information? Ebay is very forthright about these costs, right there, obvious, low flat rates. And, on Amazon, you can estimate these costs by entering your zip code. What are Tatiana's shipping and handling costs?

aruzinsky: "More importantly, I can't find Tatiana's shipping and handling costs. Is she hiding these costs until she has your personal information?"

Yes, I'm sure one of the most respected sources of tomato related information and seed in North America is only out there to do nefarious things with your personal information. By all means, smear her website and her intentions without doing any research at all--it speaks very highly of you and your mindset.

http://tatianastomatobase.com/wiki/Category:Seed_Order
Shipping information is on ^this page.

So, the cost to handle and ship one pack of tomato seeds is, at least, $3 for Tatiana versus $0.49 for the Ebay seller. That speaks very highly of me and my mindset.

Noooo it is clearly $2.50 per packet for tomato seeds and a flat rate is offered for bulk orders of multiple packets of seeds. It is Canadian shipping rates given her location in B.C. and still much lower than many US seed vendors.

But yes, if that is all that matters to you then ebay is cheaper in this particular instance.

Dave

"Noooo it is clearly $2.50 per packet for tomato seeds and a flat rate is offered for bulk orders of multiple packets of seeds."

Then, what the Hell is this?:

Shipping cost is calculated based on the size of the order, packaging type, and the destination. Unfortunately Canada Post raised the postage cost significantly after April 1, 2014, so we had to readjust the shipping fees.

• from $2 (small standard) to $7 (very large, bubble mailer) for Canadian customers
• from $3 (small standard) to $9 (very large, bubble mailer) for US customers
• from $4 (small standard) to $12 (very large, bubble mailer) for International customers (outside of Canada and USA)

Additional variable handling fee is included for all PayPal orders.

"How you talk about and to others is the issue."

Wrong. You are off topic. This is the Growing Tomatoes forum, not the Etiquette forum.

Your parents didn't do a very good job...

"The Bitterness of Poor Quality Lingers Long After the Sweetness of Low Price is Forgotten"

Or

"There is No Education in the Second Kick of a Mule!"

"Then, what the Hell is this?:"

That is clearly the bulk shipping rates for multiple packets - as many as can be fit into a large bubble mailer. If you are unfamiliar with what a large bubble mailer is - look it up for yourself.

And for most people common courtesy applies to ALL interactions regardless of the format or subject matter. Unfortunately a few people never seem to learn that.

Dave

"That is clearly the bulk shipping rates for multiple packets - as many as can be fit into a large bubble mailer. "

No, it clearly says "$3 (small standard)" and does not mention the word "bulk" or "multiple" anywhere. And, whatever, this confusion is Tatiana's fault. The key word that every single one of you overly verbose posters are missing is ERGONOMIC. The ergonomic thing to do is have the shipping cost calculated and displayed during shopping card checkout BEFORE entering personal information. That is the way most online stores do it.

Regarding all of the above posters attacks on me, they are morally wrong. Here is an analysis of what happened:

1. Marianne W (zone 10A)

...Tatiana's Tomato Base. Why not just buy from her?

2. I HONESTLY answered Marianne's question with, "That severe lack of ergonomics insults my sensibilities so much that I think she doesn't deserve my business."

3. And, then I am attacked for giving an honest answer. That is morally wrong.

Maybe, you overly verbose, off topic posters, are confusing me with Donald Trump. Thank you for the compliment but I don't have Trump's energy. Just addressing your overly verbose, off topic nonsense wears me out. Please, stop it. You are morally wrong.

aruzinsky: "That is morally wrong."

LOL! Yes, it is indeed heinous for people to point out that your high-handed offense-taking (yes, I'm sure Tania personally meant to insult you with her web skills, aruzinsky) and later questioning of Tania's business ethics is rude, ignorant, and uncalled-for.

I have found that, without fail, he who is the most unpleasant to others is most likely to claim victimhood at the slightest pushback, citing martyrdom of his own "honesty" while elevating the honesty of others with regard to his rude behavior to the level of high crimes against humanity.

"LOL! Yes, it is indeed heinous for people to point out that your high-handed offense-taking (yes, I'm sure Tania personally meant to insult you with her web skills, aruzinsky) and later questioning of Tania's business ethics is rude, ignorant, and uncalled-for."

That is a lie. I said nothing about Tania's intentions nor did I question her business ethics. These things only exist in your imagination.

"I have found that, without fail, he who is the most unpleasant to others is most likely to claim victimhood at the slightest pushback, citing martyrdom of his own "honesty" while elevating the honesty of others with regard to his rude behavior to the level of high crimes against humanity."

"slightest pushback" - certainly not measured by the amount of verbosity. You must really enjoy hearing yourself speak because you are too verbose.

"rude behavior" - You are mistaking tactlessness for rudeness. There is a difference.

Well, in that case, I must be the only person here who thinks you've been consistently rude and aggressive toward others here. But you are correct that I've wasted too many words on you. In my experience, people like you don't correct their behavior.

"I must be the only person here who thinks you've been consistently rude and aggressive toward others here."

No, here a Donald Trump analogy is appropriate. Attacks on politically incorrect people are very common. What you are doing is rioting and blaming me for inciting you to riot.

"But you are correct that I've wasted too many words on you."

Is that a promise to stop? If so, I don't believe it.

I almost hate to jump in here, since I have no personal experience with Ebay tomato seed sellers; had very good experience with Tatiana, great communication. But regarding Ebay, I note that the way I read it, Member id olzzzass2891 has 100% positive feedback on hundred and hundreds of sales, presumably many tomato seeds. Although there is a variety translation issue, it would seem that she sells many varieties that are difficult to find elsewhere. I give sellers the benefit of the doubt, not much of a risk from sellers with 100% positive feedback. Price is very good, shipping cost too. I hope not to be ripped to shreds for sticking up for a legit seller just trying to make a living!

Nobody is disparaging the seller. Only objecting to the rudeness with which Tania is being criticized and the weird and baseless suspicions voiced about how she's supposedly trying to hide her shipping prices so that she can collect personal information about people.

Ebay can be fine. But I've bought things from sellers with 99% approval rates and gotten dud seeds. Agreed that, if the tomatoes come in commercial packaging, the seeds are probably fine, especially since tomato seeds have pretty long vitality. I think it's just common sense, though, to remember that you're always taking a chance with eBay--nothing personal against any specific seller. It's just that there are many ways to manipulate ratings on eBay, but running a business under your own real name where there are real consequences to your reputation makes a sterling reputation mean more because it's hard to fake or manipulate that.

Last week, I received the seeds from olzzzass2891 but won't plant them until next year. There seems to be an expiration date, "12.2019", on the package.

My only criticism of Tania is that she has a poor sense of ergonomics.

Until now, I made no conjecture about Tania's intentions. Sometimes, people with too much energy don't mind wasting their own movements and therefore assume that others will similarly not recent having their movements wasted. I have a keen awareness of ergonomics and people who lack a sense of ergonomics because I have two chronic pain conditions that cause pain when my muscles contract, i.e.., I hate unnecessary motion. People like Tania and gorbelly literally cause me unnecessary pain.

Oh, please.

1) Tania's "tiny box" is 740px wide. The box containing the same information on eBay is 800px wide. That is a negligible difference.

2) Tania's seed ordering page has sticky navigation and search, meaning you don't need to scroll up to re-access those features. eBay does not, so you need to scroll back up to go to another page or search on something else.

3) Tania's ordering page puts all the information about the variety on the list page. You do not need to click deeper in to access product details. eBay, on the other hand, requires extra clicking.

4) eBay is a giant, multi-headed corporation. Tania is a sole proprietor whose only income is from the sale of her seeds. Yet her site requires fewer "movements" than eBay, and the claim that eBay is "more ergonomic" shows a lack of understanding of the term in addition to being just wrong as a statement.

This statement by aruzinsky clearly indicates that he was more focused on putting down someone else rather than actually making any legitimate point:

"That severe lack of ergonomics insults my sensibilities so much that I think she doesn't deserve my business."

Utter lack of a legitimate point, as demonstrated above, also underscores this:

I also am entertained by how, despite how much difficulty aruzinsky supposedly has with navigating websites, especially with "movements", he still spent a great deal of time on Tania's site in order to find disparaging things to say about her shipping (which is actually cheaper than almost all independently owned online seed shops), and he managed to do a search so that he could crow about how she doesn't have the variety he wants (which wasn't the point anyway--his rudeness and condescension were, but he's not very good at reading comprehension).

And he claims that this was not meant to disparage:

"More importantly, I can't find Tatiana's shipping and handling costs. Is she hiding these costs until she has your personal information? Ebay is very forthright about these costs, right there, obvious, low flat rates. And, on Amazon, you can estimate these costs by entering your zip code. What are Tatiana's shipping and handling costs?".

... but he's clearly implying by the juxtaposition of "forthright" that Tania is not "forthright". Given how much he's clearly given to untruth, aggression, and rudeness, I think most of us can see these statements for what they are.

Can't you all just let this thread die already? It's ridiculous to keep going back and forth like you are.

Rodney

Edit: Well.... I tried......

"Can't you all just let this thread die already?"

I'm sorry, but, I have a moral obligation to refute gorbelly's lies.

"1) Tania's "tiny box" is 740px wide. The box containing the same information on eBay is 800px wide. That is a negligible difference."

Ebay does not have a "box" as defined by a rectangular area with separate scroll bars. Area, not width, is the appropriate measure of size. At 1280x720 screen resolution, Tania's box is 224 pixels high whereas EBay's display (not a box) occupies almost the entire 720 pixel vertical distance. At equal widths, Tania's box is about 224/700 = 0.32 the area of Ebay's display. That justifies me calling Tania's box "tiny."

"3) Tania's ordering page puts all the information about the variety on the list page. You do not need to click deeper in to access product details. eBay, on the other hand, requires extra clicking."

I don't want detailed information on everything I see. Making me scroll past voluminous information that I don't want to see is much worse than occasionally clicking on something that interests me.

"he managed to do a search so that he could crow about how she doesn't have the variety he wants"

You provided me with the link to the web page and all I did was click the link and then the "Availability" tab. Not much of a "search" for me.

"... but he's clearly implying by the juxtaposition of "forthright" that Tania is not "forthright". "

Absolutely. "Forthright" means straightforward and honest. Tania is not forthright because she is not straightforward. Contrast that with you not being forthright because you are dishonest.

Dude. You asked internet strangers for advice, you didn't like it so you didn't follow it. ...now you keep coming back to vent your feelings because Internet strangers? I seriously wish I had your free time.

Good luck with your 2009 seed, it might do ok.

Simple answer. Worked for me.

Click to switch off notifications about new comments

"You asked internet strangers for advice"

Yes, and the question that I asked was not answered by you. I said, "Anyone have experience with any of these varieties?: ..."

and you, Marianne W (zone 10A) , said,

"So, if you want Russian tomato seeds from a reliable vendor, hit up Tatiana's Tomato Base. She speaks Russian and works with the seed vendors there to get their seeds over to North America. Why not just buy from her? She has thousands to choose from and she's reputable."

That was an unsolicited advertisement for Tatiana. You started all of this ugliness with your uncalled for question, "Why not just buy from her?" If you had appropriately said, "No." this ugliness wouldn't have occurred.

That is the greatest answer of all time. You are blaming me for your feelings because I suggested you shop from a legitimate store. I am enjoying imagining how you think the world works.

Again, good luck out there. Sounds like you need it.

Too funny Marianne, and I thought he was going to ruin your whole day!

Linda

"You are blaming me for your feelings because I suggested you shop from a legitimate store.

No, I am blaming you for suggesting that I wasn't already buying from a legitimate store. I didn't ask for or need any advice about where to shop.

Given all the well-established and recognized legitimate sources available for garden seeds (including Tatiana's) you could count on one hand and 2 toes the number of folks who would include ebay on that list.

You asked for experience with those specific varieties, varieties that were in Russian and and not even translated correctly when offered for sale. You really though anyone was going to say, "Oh yeah sure. Grow them every year."

You should have been able to see the big, red, neon !!!SUCKERS - DEAL OF A LIFETIME!!! sign flashing on that listing before even posting the question. It was obvious to the rest of us.

Dave

"Given all the well-established and recognized legitimate sources available for garden seeds (including Tatiana's) you could count on one hand and 2 toes the number of folks who would include ebay on that list."

Before it was just "legitimate." Now, you inappropriately narrowed it to "well-established and recognized legitimate" and say there are less than 7 people who believe Ebay is one of those sources. (1) You didn't perform a poll and therefore are lying. (2) The source is not Ebay, but, specific sellers on Ebay, e.g., olzzzass2891.

"You should have been able to see the big, red, neon !!!SUCKERS - DEAL OF A LIFETIME!!! sign flashing on that listing before even posting the question. It was obvious to the rest of us."

Your logic is despicable. In fact, you are discriminating against a seller, olzzzass2891, with which you have absolutely no experience. You attacked a random stranger and that, alone, makes you a bad person. Not only are you morally wrong, you embellish your wrongness in poetic verbosity, which makes you even worse. And, you, digdirt2, have mistaken me for someone who is too stupid to see through your moronic charm.

I'm happy to have provided you with some ranting time for the day. We all know how much pleasure you get from doing it. :-)

Dave

"I'm happy to have provided you with some ranting time for the day. We all know how much pleasure you get from doing it. :-)

Dave"

What an unclever attempt at misdirection from the facts. I'm sure whoever the rest of "we" are, really appreciate you speaking for them without their permission.

aruzinsky: "You attacked a random stranger and that, alone, makes you a bad person."

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/hypocrisy

Gorbelly, neither you, digdirt2, nor, mariana, were random strangers because you all accosted me first. And, in the case of Tatiana, my actions were constructive criticism of her website, initiated by a question from by mariana, rather than an attack. So, what random stranger did I attack?