Software
Houzz Logo Print
ozzie75

Why are people so dishonest sometimes????

10 years ago

Ok, so I need your opinion. To make a VERY long story short, I worked with a custom cabinet designer who customized my cabinet color exactly how I wanted it. We went through a few rounds of samples to get the exact color. I wanted a white creamy paint. NOT yellow or brown and only rub through/distress in the creases so it wouldn't appear dirty. The color was very similar to Swiss Coffee.

After 4 attempts (yes 4), they could not get the cabinet doors/drawers replicated to the sample they made me (go figure). Each time they came to install them, there was a different problem. On the 3rd attempt, they had the color correct, but a lot of overspray or "glaze" that appeared very dirty. The side panels (side of fridge, oven, etc) were ok so they left them along with the actual cabinet structure and just took back the doors/drawers.

So, now on the 4th attempt everything was great except the white color was a yellowish cream...EXACTLY what I didn't want. Cabinet builder is unwilling to even discuss or make any changes (even though it doesn't match my sample). My guess is he has lost money or isn't making any so he wants to sweep it under the rug (so dishonest IMO). So, now I have a color I didn't want and mismatched panels. Attached are some pictures. I realize this isn't the end of the world and that the cabinets really are beautiful and good quality, but I still paid A LOT of money for customized cabinets that are the wrong color. It's like buying a black car and getting a dark grey one. Even though the dark grey is beautiful, it's not what you ordered.

Question...................Leave them as is or pay 3k more to have them painted all white (no distress so it is easier and cheaper). My husband thinks all white will look "cheap". I just think that will be easier and it definitely is less expensive and possibly more timeless. Or................just leave them and figure out a way to get over it?


Bottom picture show Cabinets door/drawers on left, Panels in the back, and color sample they should have been on the right.





Comments (45)

  • 10 years ago

    So sorry about this. I am sure you are upset. However, they don't look bad at all. I am concerned that there does seem to be a different color between the sets on the top row of cabinets around the stove hood in the top photo? Yes? So do you have more than just those two cabinet doors a different color? If no, then maybe take those two doors and one of the correct doors to someone else and see if they can match the others. If there are more than those 2 doors then it might become a more pricey fix.

    If you can learn to live with them , then I would. In time you won't notice that they aren't as white as you wished. You can choose paint colors and back splash to tie in your cream and black and lovely counters.

    ozzie75 thanked Diane Land
  • PRO
    10 years ago

    Do you have a contract with the cabinet maker, and specifically an agreement in writing regarding the sample approval? If so, is there a clause stating a range of color variance that is allowed? I am not litigation happy - but if you have those items, I would go back to the contractor, and let them know that they are in breach of contract - That they can either make the cabinets all match the sample, or you will be forced to contact the contractors board, BBB, or sue. If you can be happy with the panels done to match the rest of the kitchen, that would be easiest - but unless you have no contract - that is the least the contractor can do.

    ozzie75 thanked Michelle Scott for Ethan Allen - Laguna Niguel, CA
  • 10 years ago

    OMG! I feel for you. After all the time, energy and research you put into picking the cabinets, picking the exact paint color, and picking the right vendor it sucks to be in this position. How frustrating! ( I've been there before, can you tell?) Clearly, after 4 tries, he can't produce what he agreed to produce as the sample and the cabinet are greatly different! Have you paid him in full? What has he offered to do for you?

  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Yes, I do have a contract that specifically calls out the details of my specific sample and paint formula. I have given him multiple opportunities to correct it or refund me some money so I can have someone else do it. He has still refused to even return any phone calls or emails. I am contacting the BBB and state consumer agency but all they can do is ask that he fix them and then the state can fine him if they side in my favor. Doesn't mean he has to fix anything, but I think he should be accountable for not making this correct. He stated on multiple occasions that the cabinets should look EXACTLY like the sample since it was custom made.

  • PRO
    10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Why are people dishonest sometimes? Dishonest people are dishonest whenever it suits them. That is their modus operandi. Keep going until you get what you wanted. He provided the sample. That's what you wanted, agreed on, and that color only is what you will accept.


    You don't say your state, but take him to small claims court. The amount would be enough to have the cabinets repainted.


    http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/small-claims-suits-how-much-30031.html

  • 10 years ago
    when you get paint and backspash in, it may change the appearance altogether. they look lovely.
  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    You have 2 issues. Aesthetics, and technical competency. Aesthetics says that the yellow clashes with the granite. Spray them white, by an actual cabinet finishing Pro. Technical competency says spray in a clean room. With a catalyzed lacquer. No glaze. Technically, it's a big part of the color issue. Aesthetically, it doesn't work either. It's a dated look.

    They may need to be dipped and stripped to remove all of the other gunk. Or, you may need all new doors, drawers, and end panels. What you have on there currently might muck up any attempts to do the job correctly with the correct products. Depends on what he used.

  • PRO
    10 years ago

    I agree with Sophie. The color of the cabinets doesn't work with the granite and the overglaze is a dated look. I might look towards a grey solution.

  • 10 years ago
    Your cabinets appear pinky to me on my screen. If you wanted a warm white insist on a redo. Are your counters grey, cool toned? If so, they are not a good fit with warm white. I would have him paint the cabinets white, cool, and perhaps a dark grey for the island for some contrast.
  • 10 years ago
    I just read your other posts on this subject. Did you have your cabinets stained a dark color originally? So confused from that previous post.
  • 10 years ago
    I would not accept that. It looks too yellow/dated and the cabinets are not anywhere close to the sample. Who is the cabinet maker/company that is making the custom cabinets?
  • 10 years ago

    @ SandyC - I have my hood, island, and built ins by the fireplace that are a dark espresso color. My main kitchen cabinets are the white (now cream color).

  • 10 years ago

    The cabinet maker will NOT do anything about it at this time and I am having it addressed legally. My main question is if you would dump 3k-4k more into cabinets that I just spent a fortune on to have them repainted by another company. Not to mention the delay in moving in and everything else being held up.

  • 10 years ago
    There is something not jiving with your story. But if you have a written contract and they are unwilling to honor the contract, pay the money to have it done right and take them to small claims court.
  • 10 years ago

    SandyC - Im not sure what part isn't jiving. The other threads I have about my house are related to the wood species of my cabinets and my staircase......unclear on what you mean. At any rate, I think you are right about getting them corrected. Thanks

  • PRO
    10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Reread...what isn't jiving?

  • PRO
    10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Call it a happy accident, albeit an expensive one!. Spray all to white; clean white and if you want darker, do the island to contrast. The hood appears as too hulking and heavy ......perhaps a match with the a dark island would help.

  • 10 years ago
    it does look ok to me, but irritation is in the eye of the beholder... how long are you planning on living in this house? if its long term/ forever, it may make sense to fix it, but if you plan on moving in a few years, rather spend the thousands on something else
  • PRO
    10 years ago

    If you decide to keep them, see if you have a local faux finisher who can tone the glazing down a bit for a reasonable budget.

  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Did you get more than one written estimate for the work? Did you ask for references from the guy? And more importantly, did you actually call them and/or verify the work in person?

    Did you start off with wanting colour A and then change your mind mid-process to wanting colour B? Did you then decide you didn't like colour B and tried to get him to change back to A after the process was begun?

    Was the paint he used from the same batch, store location and (dye lot)?

    If you have a written contract, how did you pay thus far? Cash? That's foolish. Cheque? Put a stop payment at the bank if possible. Credit card? Call the cc company. Still owe the guy money? Don't pay another cent until they are re-done. Get someone else to re-do them properly and get him to pay the difference.

    And dishonest people are dishonest because they are selfish. And by the way, being honest and having integrity are not the same thing. Find someone that has both qualities to do the work. Stick with a reputable company that has been around forever and doesn't need to advertise a lot--they are so good that word-of-mouth is about all they need.

    Sorry things aren't going well right now, but persevere and stand your ground. And don't start anything else until one issue at a time is resolved. Be on the phone daily, email, go to the office daily. Be so darn persistent that they will fix it right and then some just to get rid of you! Seriously, some crap companies exist *only* because they know that 99% of the people are going to give up. Be that 1% and challenge what you were promised. And if it wasn't in writing or in a video or objectively documented? Too bad. It is not going to hold up in court. Bank on that one.


  • 10 years ago

    I just re-read your post. Between the third and fourth installation attempt you typed that the cabinet panels were "ok." Who said they were okay? You? The installer? The milkman? If *you* said they were "ok" then why are you now saying the panels are "mis-matched?"

    And you indicated on the third go around that the color was actually "correct." Was it the same guy painting the cabinets or more than one person? Did he/they clean the sprayer?

    If you were aware of the stages of the job and say "okay" then what the heck is the company supposed to do? If they are worth their salt, they will take that as a verbal go-ahead to keep going, yes?

    I'm starting to think it might be you with the problem and that you are impossible to work with to communicate with the workers. Were you talking to the same person by name each time? Was it actually Ted the boss or Bill the installer? Or were messages being relayed through others?

    Let your yes mean yes, and your no mean no. If you waiver, well, don't be surprised with fall-out. I'm thinking it's a big mis-communication issue--as many problems are.



  • 10 years ago

    @luvyourhome, I think you misread. On the 3rd attempt, like I stated above, the issue was with overspray from the glaze and the doors were very dirty. Instead of a clean crisp white with glaze only in the creases, it was over sprayed on the white part. About 1/2 of the panels (which are the cabinet pieces that are on the ends of your cabinets (large white end panel on end of fridge, oven, etc.) were ok b/c they are just the "white color" without any brown on them. These were ok on the 3rd attempt and the correct color. They wanted to leave as much as they could that was "correct" rather than taking it all back and forth again. When they came back the 4th time, they had the remaining panels and all the doors which were now the wrong color (and a different color than the panels left on the 3rd visit).

  • 10 years ago

    It's upsetting, but ask yourself would you lose sleep over this kitchen if the phone rang now and you were told that you or a love one were terminally ill?

    I've spent a lot of time visiting a hospital this week and it really brings one down to earth re what is important.

  • 10 years ago

    ps I've done a reno and regretted some choices that were made, but you get over it

  • 10 years ago
    Small claims court. No doubt about it. This cabinet company is obviously sick of you and wants you to go away. Don't. They should be sued for incompetence and breach of contract. In some states, you can fill out the paperwork on line so it's easy. Take your photos to an office store's printing department and get them enlarged for your day in court. That last picture made my eyes open wide: it's obvious how glaring the difference is and says a lot about the ethics of this guy.
    To make yourself feel better - and, to confirm what you already know - take pieces of the good and the bad to reputable cabinet shop and get their opinion.
  • PRO
    10 years ago

    I really like your cabinets and I think they look great. Honestly, I think the issue is that they do not go all the way to the ceiling. That will give you the lux look I think you are going for. It will also cover the gray paint which is providing contrast with your warm tone cabinets. This is just a rough rendering but if its in the budget, I think this will make the most impact rather than re-painting.

  • PRO
    10 years ago

    Ozzie, first I have to say that you have a very beautiful kitchen, nice work, beautiful design and quality workmanship as installation goes... as the color goes, it's hard to tell from pictures the diffrent color or see the overspray, etc but I take your word for it.

    One comment you made "The side panels (side of fridge, oven, etc) were ok so they left them along with the actual cabinet structure and just took back the doors/drawers."

    That is an issue and Sophie made a good point in regard to that. Some of the custom cabinet shops they do beautiful work and create nice designs .... The problem is, some of these shops don't have advanced equipment or use advanced techniques when applying stain/paint finishes. You still get professional result but not as good as you would get from a manufacturer who has the more advanced abilities and techniques when it comes to finishing, and that can be an issue in some cases when it comes to certain finishes....Not that the finish you have is bad and it won't last, etc.... it's not the same as you would get at the advanced cabinet factory where they have the ability to dip the doors, bake the finish on, etc to get professional and a more uniform cabinet finish.

    Furthermore when dealing with glazes and creating so to speak distressed look, most shops will make you sign a liability waiver that they're not responsible for variation in color. Many cabinet makers and most known manufacturers started doing that for quite sometime now when it comes to distress details on custom kitchens. The reason being is because people look at the finished product when it arrives in a diffrent way, some love it, some don't like it and some even hate the outcomes and that is why they make customers sign waivers because cabinet finishing is very time consuming and expensive process.

    Also please keep in mind, that when making your color selections it was done from a sample. Now that color was applied on the entire kitchen, and you looking at the entire kitchen with Granite in place, now you have cabinets picking up surrounding reflections from surrounding materials like Granite, walls etc. including light and shading effects, so the color will look diffrent throughout the kitchen depending where you standing and at what angle you looking at the kitchen, because the amount of light you have for each area is different and that throws a lot of people off especially with painted cabinets. So all of that have to be taken into consideration.

    As the overspray goes and other flaws you noticing (not sure how bad it is and how many doors), that should be refinished and they need to take all the doors,strip them and re-spray them all at the same time at their own expense. You cannot leave some of the doors behind and take other doors and drawers to re-spray, because each time you create a new batch of paint it will be off in color even if the same ingredients used to make the color.

    With that said, it sounds like this been an outgoing issue between you and cabinet maker for sometime... I don't know the whole story so i will not be taking any sides, so basically this comes down to your satisfaction and your cabinet maker's reputation. Speaking from experience and I have been in a few situations like this before, when I was called as the third party to save the day for unsatisfied customer when it came to things like that or other issues and in most cases I gave the same advice... the best remedy to resolve this is sit down with your cabinet maker and try to find common ground and a solution that will benefit you both. There is no other way to do this.

    As some suggested, taking this to small claims court ... I doubt it will help you much in your case and most likely it will not solve anything. You will get more aggravated, waste more time with this and you will not get anything out of it (not from the sound of your case) or in a worst case scenario, it could cost you... because you have to prove the case and you will have to find an expert who can testify what they did is wrong, or they used the wrong color, etc and that is not cheap... you might get a few $$ back so you can pay someone else to respray a few doors with overspray, etc and we know you will never do this because it will never look the same if you go someplace else. Also you don't want to burn the bridge between you and your cabinet maker, you never know what you might need down the road, maybe a damaged door replacement, etc and he is the only one who will able to make the perfect match or built something matching in color and design, etc.

    This is also not the case to take to BBB because I doubt it will get you anything also, the guy made 4 attempts to try and satisfy you and I don't think this is a case of dishonesty, or a case of fraud or faulty workmanship, etc and when they hear both sides of the story, I doubt they will even make a listing for this case... But then again, it is your choice to try and go forward with anything you think it might worth your while.

    The only thing I can say at this point, good luck with your kitchen and I hope you enjoy every minute spent in it cooking, because it is a beautiful addition to your Home.


  • 10 years ago

    Thank you everyone for your comments and advice. We have decided to get them painted by a professional a solid white using BM Swiss Coffee to match the trim. The island (which isn't finished in the pictures above) and the hood will be espresso. My granite is white ice which you can kind of see in the pictures. Is this the right choice on the cabinet color? The painter said I could paint the hood white too after I look at it to see what I think but I definitely want the island espresso. Here is a picture of the other side of the room and pictures of floors that will be installed this week. Thanks!!!

  • 10 years ago

    SandyC.- the word you want is "jibing". not "jiving". The dictionary is your friend, lol

  • 10 years ago

    Gallica3- Thank you for your pedantry. Perhaps a bit anal retentive tho;)

  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    margo. sandyc was being snarky to the op. and not very good at it.

  • 10 years ago
    Swiss Coffee is my favorite white. Your cabinet person is being a jerk. Does Yelp take comments about businesses?
    Now, that said, my kitchen cabinets are all Swiss Coffee with no glaze, and it doesn't look cheap. My painter charged me about $900 bucks to paint it....the kitchen is 13x16' plus an island, so it was no small job. I expected to pay more, but I paid him what he asked, gladly. $3000 is exorbitant! I would not use that painter nor the cabinet guy for anything ever again. Ask friends for referrals to their painters.
  • 10 years ago
    To the OP, I agree with GN Builders. You may save yourself a lot of time and wasted energy and angst by biting the bullet and paying another company to do it right. Make sure you do your research and hire someone you trust. Good luck.
    I was not trying to be snarky, I truly was not understanding the situation. So, as well as not being able to spell I am not able to read and comprehend, lol.
    ozzie75 thanked User
  • 10 years ago
    @ felizlady, would you mind posting a picture of your kitchen? Thanks
  • 10 years ago

    I'm so sorry this has happened to you. I hope you get it resolved.

  • 10 years ago
    Are these structural or faux beams installed and stained on the ceiling? If faux, what was your source for the beams? We are looking to add faux beams to our family room, but beams are costly at $1,000 each and take 4-6 weeks to fabricate.
  • 10 years ago

    @dcurlsbennett - my husband is doing most the work on building our house. He built them out of wood and stained them. I think they look awesome.

  • 10 years ago
    I agree. They do look awesome! Inspiration for me to tackle our family room. I've read articles online and it seems pretty do-able.
  • PRO
    10 years ago

    I would have a spray out panel done so you can put it in your room. Swiss Coffee sold by HD is a yellowish/cream color which you stated you didn't want? People choose colors by names and what they see in pics on the internet and it does not work. You have to see the color in YOUR room. Wall and surrounding colors will change the color of off white paints.

    I guarantee the base on the sample is not the same as the ones delivered and that is the issue. The ones delivered look like swiss coffee and the sample does not. Very simple go to HD and get a couple paint cards.


    Each painter will do their distressing differently. It looks like they used an different base and wipe the glaze or stain on top creating the off shades. With is finish it will be off from panel to panel somewhat depending on amount applied and wiped off. It is a hand done process and it is what it is.

    The better way to do it is to just let the color of the wood show through and clear the entire panel.


    As far as legal action I could not imagine that somewhere in that contract it doesn't address color variances. I would rethink the whole swiss coffee deal as it did not work the 1st time so why stick with it??

  • 10 years ago
    don't go yellow or creamy with that grayish granite. the dark hood gives some great drama, keep it.
  • 9 years ago

    Update?

  • 9 years ago

    I wrote a letter to the cabinet maker and gave him 2 options. 1) send me money to have somebody else repaint them or 2) I would report him to the BBB and file a complaint with the state. Surprisingly he sent sent me a check and I had someone repaint them. I think it turned out fantastic :)

  • 9 years ago

    Glad it worked out. Should those lanterns be lowered ?

  • 9 years ago

    Probably but we have tall people in our family and they were getting in the way when they were standing at the island.