Just looks like environmental damage to me. Temperatures too low, not enough sun, too windy. Tomatoes won't thrive until they have temps above 50 at night and 70 in the day. My tomatoes do great in 5-1-1. But I use much larger containers, at least 7-10 gallons even for determinate tomatoes. You may find that such small containers will require water once or twice a day when they get going.

Your 5:1:1 looks like mainly peat with a much smaller amount of pine bark (moreso a 1:1:1 mix), so I do not believe the addition of the bark caused this at all.

Thanks Dave. I didn't think the bark caused this at all, just was wondering why it seemed to happen in the bark mix when I hadn't had this problem in previous years with very similar weather conditions. Also, my "5:1:1" is 60% small pine bark with a 40% peat/perlite growers blend.

Try fertilizing more often. The smaller the bark particles the more N immobilization you'll find in soils.

Al

Jumping in on a similar topic, I am attempting (for the 1st time) to use the 511 mix for my container tomatoes. In my quest for appropriately sized perlite, I found multiple options but was unsure about which one is best. The brand is Mother Earth, and they offer 4cu ft bags of coarse (appears quite small), #3 size (appears ideal), and #4 (noticeably larger particles). I am inclined to go with the #3, but wanted to get everyone's thoughts and suggestions on the matter before purchasing.

Thank you all for the continued help!

Bump because I also saw the mother earth products and am interested to know how much size matters on the large end

Al - as always, thank you for the feedback. The perlite I ended up going with was Mother Earth's #3 ("Large & Coarse"). It was $40 for 4cu ft and shipped for free on Amazon. The bark used was a combo of Agway Pine Bark Mulch (superior product) and Robinhood Pine Bark Mulch (decent bark sizes; looked more composted, with more fine material - see photo below). Due to the amount of bark dust in the Robinhood, I decided to omit the peat portion of the mix. So far, I am pleased with the final mix, the perlite, and the mix's o/a performance; drainage is stellar yet the mix still has plenty of built-in H2O retention.

I will take photos tonight of my container plantings and the final mix. Do you think the perlite is appropriately sized or too large?

Many thanks (Dory & Al)

EHH

^ 2x3" handmade sifter (1/2" screen)

Happy growin'

Bark looks great. Perlite should work just fine. Next time, get one size smaller if possible.

Al

Great to know and I really appreciate the confirmation Al! I was surprised when I first saw the perlite. Here's the finished mix and some of this year's veggies

Strong work! Looks good. Don't be shy about fertilizing - the raw bark tends to immobilize more N than mixes with materials in a more advanced state of decomposition.

Al

Awesome!! I did incorporate Osmocote Plus into the mix at the appropriate ratio and will likely fertilize 1x per week at 1/2 strength. It seems like the surface layer dries quickly, but the media below remains moist. I will try to monitor moisture levels and report back (had concerns about the amount of bark dust, yet added no peat, so my fingers are crossed for legit performance).

Thanks again

Hi EHH. I had difficulty finding pine bark here in Colorado. Finally found a product by Mountain west called soil pep that had the appropriate sized pieces and I decided to use it. Unfortunately it had a bunch of dust with it as well. I, too, decided to omit the peat. Sadly my plants are struggling mightily. Fearing N neutralization, I don't know if I'm fertilizing too much or too little. I'm bummed. I really wanted this too work but my plants that are in the ground are doing far better. Next year I'll screen the bark and add peat to ensure my ratios are exact. Hope yours works better then mine.

Wonderful ingredients! Yes, with this nice coarse Perlite and uncomposted bark (exactly how I make mine), the top inches will dry out sooner than the bottom. You can resolve this by doing a light watering between heavier waterings, or you could even add a thin layer of bark as mulch over the surface.

Josh

Greenman & Lopey,

Thanks so much for the feedback and interest! Having this information, I am going to proceed with repotting some of my indoor tropical trees into a similar 511. For the veggies, I'll definitely take the advice to fertilize often and not be afraid to do so. Near Albany, N.Y., I've been lucky to find the bark mulch necessary for the mixes. Hopefully your plants pull through Lopey! Determination is Key!

Lopey - did you add lime to the soil? You'll need to be careful about watering because of the volume of fine material in your soil, where EHH will probably be able to actually water on a schedule w/o problems.

Al

Hi Al. Yes, I did add lime. Also, I am using foliage Pro at half strength once a week. The soil is very moist so I don't water much at all in between feedings. The peppers seem to be doing slightly better than the tomatoes if that helps your guess on anything. I just don't know what to do. It's about July and I have no fruit on anything with puny plants. I'm tempted to start over but I don't know if it would be worth it at this point. I just wish I had a good pine bark source. I bought 10 bags at 8 bucks a bag and have nothing to show for it. It's simply frustrating. I was hoping to have the success as others have. Thanks for the reply.

If you're fertilizing at half strength essentially every time you water, and especially if you're not flushing the soil each time, it wouldn't take long for a high TDS level (how much soluble material is dissolved in the soil solution) to become a significant issue. How much/how often you can/should fertilize is directly tied to your soil choice and watering habits.

Al

Which leads me to believe this may be a total loss. I can't flush it if it's water retentive, correct? I think next year I'll go back to promix. I always had superior results with it.

Want better tomatoe success ? Plant them in the garden. lol

Peppers will always do better in containers than tomatoes. They don't mind restricted roots.

Lopey - It's your call, but the concept of growing in soils that support little to no perched water is sound. You're not at that point yet and are having the same issues that other growers growing in water retentive soils have. Being able to apply the concept means you have control over the vitality of your plantings instead of the soil you use. Good luck, no matter what course you choose.

Al

I understand. But if I can't find a good bark source, what's a guy to do???

I get that part. I'd just keep an eye out for an appropriate product and keep in mind that the potential for improved success is always available if you find appropriate materials. I buy bark a pallet (about a ton) at a time because I use it for mulch, so I always have anywhere from a few to 15 bags on hand at all times. This year, I used everything I have as mulch because I found a near perfect product and laid in a good supply.

Anthony - there are so many variables that it can't reasonably be said that "peppers will always do better in containers than tomatoes"; and, peppers do mind restricted roots - just like every other plant we grow in pots.

Al

Unfortunately I do not live in an area where it is so readily available. I've loomed the Denver area high and low and it's just not there. I have no doubt 511 produces stellar results but if I can't find a good product I know that I can get amazing results growing in promix.