Software
Houzz Logo Print
katek009

Bulider Allowances - are these enough?

10 years ago

purchasing a new home based on spec, interested in opinions as to if these allowances seem adequate.6 full baths

Kitchen Cabinets and bathroom vanities: $27K

Appliances: $16,500

Tile - backsplash, bathroom floors, laundry room floor, mud room floor: $9,500

Plumbing Fixtures - kitchen, all faucet: $6,000

Any guidance or good resources I could use appreciated - thanks in advance


Comments (45)

  • 10 years ago

    Based on personal experience, the cabs and vanities estimate seems light.

  • 10 years ago
    agreed..cabinets should be higher. you can take your blueprints and get some estimates.
  • PRO
    10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Where you are located, the square footage and price range of the home we are talking about is needed for anyone to comment with any accuracy.

    Were you in a $500,000 3,500 sq ft home in Pennsylvania the numbers would be more than adequate. Were you in a 2 million dollar 5,500 sq ft home in San Francisco you would be in serious trouble.

  • 10 years ago

    cabinet costs seem light,,only the kitchen ones would cost that (I am guessing the kitchen is pretty large...6 bathrooms are probably for a large house).
    Appliances is probably about right, depending on what you want

    Tile, again might work if you go with something around $2 a sqft

  • PRO
    10 years ago
    Agree with Main Line. But my experience is allowances cause the most consternation for new home buyers. Builders want to sell their house, so these numbers are generally lower than realistic. Home buyers push for lowest cost home and boom. Once buyers start selecting items, up goes price. So it becomes a real tug of war. I work up front with clients to select as many products as possible so these numbers are on target. Really helps. Every geographical area is different. However, the Internet is helpful is trying to get a bead on pricing. Over the construction process (long time lines) products selected become unavailable and pricing can change so always tricky to stay on budget. A few line items drive most of allowance costs. Cabinetry, flooring and tile, appliances, pools. Lighting can also be significant and is usually way under costs. Lighting is critical to look of the home and most neglected single item. If you provide size of home and overall target price range and location we could possibly be of more assistance.
  • 10 years ago

    What kind of finishes are you talking about? Builder basic is barely doable at $27K. Smaller kitchen semi-custom cabs will be over $25K anywhere. I'm talking HD. Maybe if you get Chinese self-assemble prefab cabs or minimal IKEA cabs.

  • PRO
    10 years ago

    Unfortunately, in the Houston area, in most of the "master planned communities", (I am in Houston area too) this is more the trend than not. Kitchens are dollar hogs for sure. The new, great, luxury brand refrigerators have skyrocketed in price to $10,000-15,000 just for the refrigerator! Yeah, due diligence is ever important. Hal Braswell's comments are on point.

  • 10 years ago

    Flo, do they only offer Subzero fridges? I don't know other fridges that come at the price..or they might be some commercial size ones

    I am not familiar with the Houston area, but we almost moved to Austin at some point..Home prices were very reasonable, but there was a reason for that and that was property tax. At 4-5% property tax, you really want to keep the house cost as low as possible

  • 10 years ago
    It is 1.8M, 5,700 sq feet
  • PRO
    10 years ago
    @Flo
    This was a David Weakly home off Barker Cypress road. Pic does not show cabinet for wall oven, cooktop and decorative range hood. Most island is DW, sink and trash pullout.

    @Kate,
    Don't know where you live but based on SF and cost, a well appointed kitchen commensurate with remainder of house could easily be $150,000 - $200,000 with about one third of that cabinets ($50-70,000). So I doubt $27,000 would do even the kitchen justice.
  • PRO
    10 years ago
    Wow. I would say you need more dollars but you can play this a couple of ways. Some of my clients are ok with low allowances because they have set aside money to accomplish the overages they know they will have which keeps total final builder pricing, which can be publicly available keep tax bill a bit lower. Also, most contracts require "change notice" costs to be covered when the change notice is signed off on. That means cash or check to builder. Given the budget for your home, your allowances look really low to me. Look at your contract. If it specifies SubZero appliances, then you can choose something else, but it will be a "change" and the builder usually charges an administrative fee on top of dollar incremental cost. That is generally 15-20% of cost of change. Custom builders will negotiate some changes for customer satisfaction. If appliances are a "allowance" item and you want high end make sure that number makes sense. A recent job i had about your home size and dollars, the kitchen appliance package was $65,000. Two dishwashers, subzero refrig and matching freezer, undercab micro, steamer. They added bigger, more powerful cooktop vent fan so even more dollars. Stone hood was separate line item. Big dollars in kitchen. Cabinets $110,000. You get the idea. All depends on design, layout, ornate details, finishes, overlay cab doors or no margin doors etc. Devil is in the details in the kitchen. Don't want to scare you too much but forewarned forearmed. If you do your pre shopping you have a much better chance of staying on budget. Hope this helps you have a good experience. It is a stressful process but in the end the overall results are very rewarding.
    Erin M thanked Flo Mangan
  • 10 years ago

    Kate - just remodeled a kitchen in so cal at that size and price point - high end appliances, tons of custom cabs, quartzite tops, designer tile = north of 200k. The cabs were over $50k for modern laminate.

    Erin M thanked suzyq53
  • PRO
    10 years ago

    In a 1.8 mil. house these are lower than builder grade IMO so I would definnately sit down with the builder and see what you get I would be hrd pressed to do an Ikea kitchen in a much smaller house for 27K

  • 10 years ago

    I think she means a spec home, not a development. Like a custom onsie that a builder builds and gets under contract and the buyer picks the finishes. No design center. That means for 1.8 mil those allowances are the what is included in the price. With a house that size and price she will need all high-end everything. She's going to blow through all those allowances on half a kitchen. I'm thinking $ 2.1 mil not including flooring and lighting upgrades if they aren't in yet.

    Erin M thanked suzyq53
  • 10 years ago

    Suzyq, can you adopt me?

  • PRO
    10 years ago

    Considering you have 6 bathrooms, I don't think this is a starter home. The cabinetry budget definitely is incongruous with the appliance budget. The tile budget seems somewhat fair but without knowing square footages, it's really difficult to speculate. The plumbing budget is definitely low for 6 bathrooms and a kitchen. If you have the opportunity to post the floor plan you will get much better feedback.

  • 10 years ago

    Printesa - thermador separate freezer refrigerator columns are $7000 each panel ready as part of a bundle. You have to get the custom panels and they don't even come with pulls. Doesn't include installation or tax. About $20,000 in and done. That is what future buyers would expect at that size and price point. Also pro gas cooktop, double wall ovens, wine chiller, multiple sinks with killer faucets, ect. Kitchens, bathrooms and master sell houses. Don't forget the full outdoor kitchen, firepit and resort style pool and lush landscaping that I didn't even address in the $2.1. For that add $250k easy.

  • PRO
    10 years ago

    Agree with SRD Const. Let's take a step back. Are you already under contract? Is this an independent builder? Is this a spec home in a development? At that price point, I don't understand these "allowances". Makes no sense. Something is off here.

  • 10 years ago

    I would tribble but you're so far away.

  • 10 years ago

    I closed escrow without the flooring and did my own with better quality and workman ship for less

  • 10 years ago

    suzy, yes, those are pricey.. I just wasn't expecting those kinds of appliances from a builder.

  • 10 years ago

    I think its a house that would be well over $2 million if it were finished properly. That's why the allowances are so whack. Flo is right. Its like bait and switch. And its misleading to most potential buyers. At least with a developer's model homes they put signs indicating that certain features are upgrades and provide the cost of the upgrades. Also developer's have economy of scale and buying power. Spec builders don't have that.

  • 10 years ago

    Thank you all, this is incredible helpful. To clarify, this is a spec home, not a development home so there is no showroom to go to other then the ones of vendors the builder uses. I am uploading the floor plan momentarily. We love this house but aren't prepared to spend a ton in upgrades!

  • 10 years ago
    Floor plan attached
  • PRO
    10 years ago
    Where are you building this? Is the property what is driving that price? Location? To be honest, I worry about this layout. But to each his own. This house here would cost less than $700K on a quarter to half acre lot? Is there lots of land?
  • 10 years ago

    Not nearly enough for anything listed. But, I'd be more concerned with the things not listed. like window quality, insulation levels, HVAC SEER rating and zoning, roof shingles, and the real nuts and bolts that hold the house together and keep you warm and dry. If they are as ridiculous as the other allowances, you just doubled the price of the house without even trying.

  • PRO
    10 years ago
    Sofia makes very good points. Is this your first new home build? If so, I highly recommend getting a consultant to review your specification in detail to help you really understand what you are in for? Someone familiar with contracts of this nature because it doesn't smell right to me. You won't love it for long if this goes south on you. Hope I am wrong. 3 story home of this design is easiest and cheapest to build. Maybe there are details we don't understand but there are a lot of red flags to me. I have 25+ years experience in construction and design both residential and commercial. Very concerned for you. Don't get pressured into something you will long regret. Sorry to go on, but have just seen people get into situations and the heartbreak and agony and money to get out is awful. Tell me I am wrong. What does your gut tell you?
  • PRO
    10 years ago
    Sorry, meant Sofia.
  • PRO
    10 years ago
    Darn auto correct! Sophie.
  • 10 years ago
    Thank you very much everyone, this has been extremely helpful. I am realizing I do not have the knowledge or experience to comfortably move forward with this. I'm really disappointed because this is the exact neighborhood I want to be in. That is what is driving everything, it's exactly where we want to be, but doesn't seem to be with the risk / headache. Thanks again.
  • PRO
    10 years ago
    So sorry. But in the long run you will find perfect situation. Don't give up, just be happy you probably avoided a lot of trouble. Make up a "favorite new house" book, with pictures from magazines and the Internet to help define all the choices you will have. This will help you tremendously when that right opportunity comes along and it will. You will be saying "we sure are lucky we stopped that deal" and found this! Best of luck in your search. Give it time.
  • 10 years ago

    Don't worry kate, Everyone has done something like this at some point. We've been through something like this twice,,,once we almost clarified all the changes and updates and the the management changed and they didn't want to accept any of those so we had to move on. The second time, the house was almost done, but they changed the lot grading without telling us and we managed to get out and get our money back ( from a flat lot they made it into a hill,,,think San Francisco roads where when you go up, you can only see the sky and your house is at the top). So, don't worry,..be thankful that you didn't end up with more headaches than you wanted

  • PRO
    10 years ago
    New home, consider 2 X 6 studs instead of 2 X 4s. Deeper wall cavity allows thicker/better insulation. Also the builder used some type of caulk in each wall cavity where the studs met the exterior sheathing. Adds to upfront cost but saves tremendously on heating and cooling bills. Those two things are a large part of why the builder GUARANTEED a $100 or less monthly utility bill for the first three years.
    Erin M thanked Hal Braswell Consulting
  • 10 years ago

    Thanks again everyone, we are meeting with the builder tomorrow to review everything before we walk away. I am taking all of your input with me - thanks again!

  • PRO
    10 years ago
    Good luck. Printesa said it well. Been there and it is emotional. But stay cool, and strong. You will not regret it.
    Erin M thanked Flo Mangan
  • 10 years ago

    Good things come to those that wait.

    Erin M thanked suzyq53
  • 10 years ago

    If you really want it, get it for lower price. Depends on the market where you are, but you will need significant upgrades. That could be a bargaining point. If no one else is ponying up you're in the driver's seat.

    Erin M thanked suzyq53
  • 10 years ago

    Thanks all! It IS emotional! We have been waiting, and waiting... we have been looking casually for a year, aggressively for six months. We are really set on this neighborhood and not a lot comes up. I would prefer something smaller, it has become less about the house and more about this neighborhood, but I definitively don't want to end up with a "cheap" house for that much money. We are asking for increases really across the board for all allowances, and to have a designer in place. That will likely be a deal breaker, and if it isn't, we will move forward and I will feel a lot more secure in the process.

  • PRO
    10 years ago

    Be careful you don't get "talked" into lower price, or "commitments" that are not in writing. Memories are short. If it isn't in writing, clearly stating agreements, IT DOES NOT EXIST. Also, builder's are in business to make money, and they will cut your costs, but not theirs. So you might get "shortcuts" on things that you can't see, but matter. They rarely cut into their profit. Just saying. Maybe this builder is a prince among builder's, but -- get anything he/she says in writing. Simply say, OK, here is what I think we agreed to. Please prepare an addendum to the contract that states these things. If he balks or drags feet, run don't walk away. BTW, this is the time when everyone is happy. It rarely gets better!

  • PRO
    10 years ago

    The layout of the bathrooms and kitchen in the design are somewhat simplistic. With these simple designs we could stay within budget for cabinetry in the lower end lines we carry. Cabinetry would still be all plywood construction and Blum Blumotion tracks and hinges. The only items that will be an issue is if custom shower doors were expected for the tiny fixture allotment.

    By the way you can't put a side by side refrigerator against a wall as is shown in the kitchen drawing.

  • PRO
    10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Have you thought about purchasing the lot from the builder and finding someone else to design and build you a house? The plans that you've shown are not what I would expect to find in a 1.8M house.

  • PRO
    10 years ago
    How did your meeting with the builder go?
  • 10 years ago
    It went ok - we are not totally satisfied but he has asked us to come back with what we would like to see. Because we want this lot - we are trying to do that. And the house is already framed so we can't start over unfortunately :( I just posted to the kitchen layouts we discussed
  • PRO
    10 years ago
    Where is the posting? I don't see here or on your other string.