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schreibdave

"Prefect Wall"

10 years ago

Has anybody built a home using the Building Science Corporation's "Perfect wall" specifications? perfect wall

I am curious about your builder's comfort level with doing something different and with the cost of going this route.

Comments (12)

  • PRO
    10 years ago

    I doubt many here have built to that level, but some coming close. What's your climate?

  • 10 years ago

    Hi Springtime

    I am in Syracuse NY. We are likely to build a 3000 sqft ranch. 2000 ft up and 1000 ft of finished basement. It will be a tract home so I guess semi custom. I doubt that my builder is familiar with any of this and may or may not be happy about doing something new and different. I would not go down this road if I had to drag him along. But if he was excited about doing something different maybe ...

  • 10 years ago

    Yea. I agree. The last thing i want is a half assed attempt at doing something he doesn't want or know how to do.

  • 10 years ago

    I always prefer FULL ASSED. (if it's worth doing.....) ;-)

  • 10 years ago

    over the past 15 years we have educated homeowners,

    builders, architects & designers as to the benefits of

    a thermally broken, exterior sheathed air tight wall.

    foam sheathing to exterior, conventional insulation,

    air tight drywall to interior. all seams & penetrations

    in foam sheathing sealed prior to cladding, sill seal

    under sole plates of walls.

    working with my utility co-op to verify & educate in

    the field, we received energy star awards for several

    years in early 2000's.

    all of these homes had wall assembly described above.


    Joe Lstiburek made several trips to La. and met with

    our groups. he imparted a lot of knowledge learned from

    the previous years two hurricanes in Florida. (and later

    on we got our own two hurricanes in one year...)

    we were able to use that info to build better, stronger

    homes that would survive hurricane winds.


    like OP, the homeowner's wishes would often not

    be achieved by builder & crew not understanding...

    flat out resisting and/or refusing to do something they

    had not done for xxx years.

    thus the outreach to those involved in trades.


    better building practices benefit us all. it just

    has to be understood by all involved. ...at the

    beginning of the project.


    if you OP are going to opt for the perfect wall, be willing

    to educate yourself, and the builder...and the crew.

    you will need to make regular visits to the site to

    address properly sealing the air barriers of the

    walls, ceilings and floors. lots of detail.

    worth it...but expect some hours of explaining or

    diy'ing some of the air sealing work.

    in that perfect world that Joe speaks of...every

    trade would seal any hole they made...LOL!

    hasn't happened yet...but hope springs eternal.


    best of luck.

    schreibdave thanked energy_rater_la
  • 10 years ago

    We have a number of priorities that we are trying to achieve with this move/build. This one is down the list a bit and it's not on my wife's list at all. Building the "perfect wall" standard is not likely to happen. However, I think I will be able to leverage a higher degree of air sealing than is typical - I just may have to do it myself. Once we get a little further into the process I will be looking for advice on what/where/how to improve on the standard air sealing practices so that I can give the builder specific tasks that I want accomplished.

  • 10 years ago

    I think that learning all that you can about the principles of good sealing, etc will pay off. For example - when we built last house, we insulated with the recycled blue jean material. We saved all the "scraps" that were left around and then we cut and stuffed them into the "holes" that the subs would have left unfilled. We went around behind them and saved / adjusted / cleaned up, etc. The bottom line is that no one will take as much care, or be as specific as you will be on your own home. Smart move.

  • 10 years ago

    stuffing insulation into holes slows air movement. it does not stop it.

    check back on these stuffed holes in a few years & you'll

    see dirty insulation. the insulation filters the air through it...but

    does nothing to stop the infiltration.

    I totally agree that no one will take as much care with your

    home as you will yourself.

    and A for effort jannicone.

    there are materials that will

    eliminate air infiltration that are long term.

    it is a matter of knowing what type of opening and what

    material works best & long term as a solution to these

    infiltration sites.


    best of luck.

  • 10 years ago

    ^^^ agreed - this was in 1997 - and much has changed - but we were pretty efficient for our time, had things like low e argon filled windows, no fiberglass insulation, make up air for our range top hood, etc... we're going a little more extreme this time...

  • PRO
    10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Great to see the focus on air-sealing. With our industry's current state of affairs, wall construction and insulation details play second fiddle to blower door test results. Even with great framing and insulation plans on paper, a blower door test is THE diagnostic measurement for what is actually built in the field. Taped, exterior sheathings are how most builders are improving but there is plenty of opportunity in masonry to framing, window openings, transitions and penetrations. The only way to verify and in some cases improve, is to use a blower door.

    Another term for Joe's perfect wall is PERSIST, getting insulation out of cavities to the exterior, keeping vulnerable structural elements warm (above dew point) and eliminating thermal bridging. It's a tough way to build, requiring a lot of insulation outside of framing to meet code minimums and increases wall thickness. It may not be perfect, but cavities are a logical place for insulation, just don't ignore that cavity-insulation-only, is not enough to achieve good performance.

    Syracuse NY is in building climate zone 5, but very close to zone 6, which is required by international building codes to use exterior insulation (outside of framing cavity insulation) or use a comparable performing wall strategy. It's probably wise to use enough ex-sulation to avoid risky walls that have too much cavity insulation in relation to ex-sulation. GBA's calculating exterior insulation thickness interprets R-7.5 for 2x4 walls and R-11.25 for 2x6 walls in Zone 6.

    More tract builders are getting on board with this stuff, some more than fully custom builders. Adding exterior insulation outside of framing requires some thinking but it's not that difficult and makes a big difference in a home's performance. If builders seem resistant, ensure they will be fairly compensated understanding it's tough to put an estimate on unfamiliar work. It's a good opportunity for them to increase their skills, be more prepared for higher performing code minimums and better educated clients.

    schreibdave thanked Springtime Builders
  • 10 years ago

    ^^ great post and a way to open a discussion on something that could be a win/win