dchomedesign

Vinyl plank floor problems

dchomedesign
3 years ago
My floating vinyl plank flooring is cupping and peaking and seams are gapping. It's been installed for 2 years now. I'm concerned about the warranty. I've read other posts about temperature and humidity levels voiding warranty but who's to argue the temperature of my home. I have a newly built house (4years), temperature is always set at 72 and my hvac system is always running with humidity set at 35%. Just because it's cupping it's an automatic temperature issue? I've also read that sunlight effects the floor causing similar issues.

Does underlay affect this type of flooring?
The installers installed the plank flooring over 2 previous layers of linoleum flooring. Could that cause any issues?

The floor is cupping through the entire main floor. YES I have windows YES I allow sunlight in, who doesn't?! But it's cupping in areas that have zero sunlight. In my closets and even pantry.

Could movement or shifting in my home cause this?
I'm totally stumped and want to get my facts straight incase the claim is denied and I have to dispute it.

Attached photos!
Flooring is Mannington Adura

Comments (97)

  • PRO
    Shaw Floors

    Hi lapierre1, you’re smart to conduct your research for any flooring you’re considering for your home. As the manufacturer of Floorté, we wanted to call out a few things.

    Our Floorté product promotes healthy indoor air quality and is backed by FloorScore®, a third party certification that tests and measures the risks to indoor air quality. A primary concern of indoor air quality is the emission level of specific volatile organic compounds (VOCs). Poor indoor air quality is caused by inadequate ventilation, poor cleaning and/or excessive emissions of VOCs from surfaces and finishes. Products bearing the FloorScore® label – like Floorte – meet the stringent indoor air quality emissions criteria. This means you can breathe easy, literally. You should look for the FloorScore seal for any resilient flooring product you consider.

    Additionally, we hold our partners to the highest utmost standards. We take numerous steps to verify that our products, regardless of where or by whom they are manufactured, meet your expectations. These steps include: performing manufacturing site inspections to ensure suppliers meet the same high-quality standards the company practices internally; setting raw material specifications that restrict the use of certain chemical substances of concern; and ensuring all products meet the relevant indoor air emissions requirements.

  • grandpeggy

    Hello, Cancork. As expected, the product report was FINALLY returned and said that there was nothing wrong with the Novocore product. Contractor and their insurance supv are trying to avoid an inspector but we want to move forward on that anyway. Will the inspector be able to recommend the proper installation method?

    Get this, the contractor says it's impossible and would take too much time to get instructions from the manufacturer. Can you believe this?!! They said in light of how long it took to get the report back, it might take too long. It is just so insulting when people think you can't read or understand. The report was dated July 5. We just got it today. 1-1/2 months later. SOooooooo, they want to come back and fix it but still don't have the manufacturer's instructions on how. This is truly unbelievable.

  • Related Discussions

    Matching floors (vinyl plank) with stairs. What to do?

    Q

    Comments (43)
    Thank you! I completely agree with both of you. This is an old thread, and I’m not the OP, but I am still working on a solution. I put in a beautiful Karndean Van Gogh medium brown wood look, glue down, but it had visible ripples in it after installation. It turns out when the installer used a high grit sander across the seams of my plywood subfloor, he unknowingly sanded grooves into it that telegraphed up through the 1/4” underlayment and the LVP. Karndean was no support at all, refused to see the ripples and said it was a proper install. The sanded grooves were discovered after ripping the whole floor and underlayment out. The installer refunded my money thankfully but still didn’t admit error. I‘m still looking for another LVP solution that will play well with my stairs, railing that screws into the floor, and open edges. Also, it’s hard to find a nice LVP medium brown in the middle of the gray trend when 80% of the choices are gray!
    ...See More

    Floors - have dog, concrete slab foundation, vinyl plank?

    Q

    Comments (45)
    I think that the vinyl flooring market has come a long way (when I first moved into the townhome we sold over the summer, I had sheet vinyl in the kitchen and bathroom with carpet everywhere else - when it came time to update the flooring and repaint back in 2016 the main requirement was no more carpet on the open style no riser staircase and I wanted to use grey tones throughout.) especially in terms of LVP. It was installed by a fantastic flooring sale/install business that really earned my repeat business (Steven's carpet and flooring, SoCal area) especially in terms of trusting Fernando's years of hands-on knowledge and the high level of professionalism for himself that carried over to his installer crew. I can't tell you what it would be like to do the installation yourself but if you find an incredible flooring contractor (this alone is worth their weight in gold!) they will tell you honestly what will be the best flooring choice in your house based on more than just the cost.
    ...See More

    Should cabinets be installed before or after Vinyl plank flooring?

    Q

    Comments (8)
    A floating floor goes in AFTER the cabinets. When installing cabinets first, you NEED to tell your cabinet makers/counter top installers of the CLEARANCE needed for the dishwasher with the extra added height of the floor. And the "newer" vinyl planks are having issues with this "reduced" expansion gap. There always needs to be a gap...always. The vinyl producers are now back tracking on their installation guidelines because there have been just enough problems with this to require a rewrite. Find your floor. Find the height of it and INFORM the cabinet installers/counter top installers that the floor height NEEDS TO BE added to the cabs/counter top height. Tell them. And tell them quickly. And remember to add in the height of underpad if you choose to work with the cork underlay that CoreTec allows.
    ...See More

    Safe Rug Backing for Vinyl Plank Flooring?

    Q

    Comments (25)
    Does any one know anything about Ruggable rugs brand? They claim they are safe for vinyl and hard wood floors and use a TPR material - thermoplastic resin used in yoga mats and are latex free. I am having coretec plus installed this week and want a nice entry rug. Any thoughts would be appreciated!
    ...See More
  • PRO
    Cancork Floor Inc.

    An inspector will point out the installation method, the preparation, the indoor conditions before/during/after installation and the problems the client is concerned about. They will point out reasons as to why the concerns are there. In a round about sort of way, they will point out how installation did NOT follow manfacture's instructions. Which is why it is VITAL that you get hold of installation instructions. Check a box of product. I bet at least one of the boxes includes the installation instructions.

    The Inspector needs access to the instructions. If they don't have it on hand, then they will work with "Best Building Practices" for like materials. And best building practices are often STRICTER than manufacture's instructions.

  • grandpeggy

    It was as easy as an email to get instructions but they do not state the type of products to use. they talk about being level and gave slope criteria. Flat is probably the best word they used to describe the smoothness. So best building practices seems to me, could be obtained from other flooring companies??

  • PRO
    Cancork Floor Inc.

    Installation instructions have been obtained. Slope criteria is SUPER important. How the installer GETS THERE - not so much. Best Building Practices are found in a very large, very EXPENSIVE guide book that business owners can PURCHASE from their National Flooring Association (the Canadian book = $700+ for 15 POUNDS of material). It was a fun read, I assure you (Not!...total snooze fest!). It is not for YOU to find this material...it is for the flooring company to HAVE this material and then TRAIN their paid installers to KNOW/impliment this material.

    The inspector will have access to this book as part of their reference material as an inspector (business write-off). Don't worry about finding it. You have the installation instructions PRINTED OFF (2 copies...one for you and one for the inspector). That's all you need to do - other than pay the inspector upon completion of their report.

  • ihawash

    Hi @cancorckfloorinc and fellow thread followers

    I have the same situation as @sarafrost got flooded ripped off carpets and now educating myself about flooring options. I really want LVP but I live in Southern California and worried about the expansion and contraction i.e bucking and I don't run HVAC at all! and we regularly hit low 100s in summer and low 30s at night.

    I read the entire thread and saw the 2 Korean brands you mentioned.

    I want to seek your opinion on this product Homedepot Lifeprrof LVP

    they have done dimensional stability (ASTM F2199 test) and found it to be <0.02, Spec sheet

    The Korean Drop n Done ASTM F2199 test score is 0.0039 Drop n Done spec dimentional stability test

    If you read the Life proof Manufacturer answer to my question, he is saying temp must be 50-100. I have double pane windows and I don't measure the temp inside my house so I really do not know what my inside house temp extremes are...

    The LVP is to be installed in 3 bedrooms only. Should I take the risk and use this product?

    Also,

    is laminate dimensional stability better than LVP? Would you recommend a laminate product that is available in the United States?


  • PRO
    Cancork Floor Inc.

    My answer = $30 digital thermometer with hygrometer at Home Depot. The $30 purchase will be the best form of "insurance" you will ever have. The Home Depot product will move more than 5 TIMES more than the Drop N Done. That's a BIG difference. The test standard LIMIT is 0.024 inches/linear foot. The Home Depot product is slightly better than that at 0.02 inches/linear foot. The Drop N Done = 0.0039 inches/linear foot. The SMALLER the number the BETTER the stability (it moves LESS).

    In your situation, I wouldn't risk it....but the $30 temp/humidity gauge will be the best thing for you.

  • grandpeggy

    Cancork, flooring inspector next week FINALLY! I'll report back soon.

  • lapierre1

    I am in the process of selecting Floorte vinyl floors. Presently, I have lino flooring and rug, 2 of the 3 companies would like to lay the vinyl flooring over my lino. Is that a good idea?

  • PRO
    Cancork Floor Inc.

    Is it real linoleum or is it vinyl? Is it puffy or is it smooth? How flat/level/even is the surface of the existing vinyl/lino? And finally, does Floorte allow a resilient floor as a subfloor?

    The subfloor information can be found on the Floorte installation instructions. The type of floor you have can be discovered by asking a professional (presumably the same professional who came in and looked at it before offering an installation quote).

  • PRO
    Shaw Floors

    You’re smart to do research on this lapierre1! To answer your question, if your linoleum floors are clean, flat, dry, structurally sound and glued down completely (not just around the perimeter), it would be perfectly fine for your Floorté vinyl to be installed over top of your linoleum flooring. Some vinyl flooring, given their individual installation requirements, would not fare well overtop an existing floor but because Floorté is flexing and calls for a floating installation, there should be no issues installing it over existing linoleum. Floorté is incredibly durable and is able to hide the imperfections from the subfloor underneath. Best of luck with your new flooring! Let us know if you have any additional questions.

  • T T

    This is such an interesting thread! Cancork, what flooring would you recommend? We want to floor our mud room, kitchen and family room (open concept the whole way). We have two layers of sheet lino that we will remove, and carpet in the family room that will get removed. What is our best option without spending a fortune? I wanted Fusion Summit vinyl planks (we live in Illinois), but at 3.99 a sq foot, the price is really adding up quickly. Help! Is vinyl planking the best bet? Or a different type of flooring?


  • PRO
    Cancork Floor Inc.

    So here's the deal: If you want tough and durable, you need to look at porcelain, stone or vinyl, or hardwood (it's ranked as durable but in a different way). In a cold climate we are down to vinyl and hardwood.

    Solid hardwood is ranked as the most durable because it can have a life span of 60-100 years. Vinyl will give you 30 years...if you are lucky and you buy top of the line and you pay a fortune to have it installed properly and for longevity.

    Laminate floors become an option in the price range you are talking about. A high-end laminate will max out at $3.79/sf or so. And those top of the line laminates are TOUGH! They should offer 20 years of service without much effort.

    Remember: $3.99/sf is lower end of rigid/solid flooring budget. Solid hardwood (even the bad stuff) should start at $4.99/sf and move up into the $20+ range.

    So keep yourself honest about budget. The next thing you have to keep in mind is "open concept". Once you get into "long runs" (anything over 35ft = long run) we have to look at "permanent" flooring. That means glue/nail/staple/cleat/mortar! Yep. The expensive install.

    So your $3.99/sf vinyl (which is middle of the road for decent vinyl) is just the start. The prep and the glue should add several more dollars per square foot (some glues are $1 - $2/sf for a quality vinyl adhesive). The prep for vinyl is NOTORIOUS for being costly (vinyl HATES variations...I mean HATES it).

    And the other fun fact about vinyl is...it does NOT like underpad. It likes smooth, hard, rigid, flat! Squishy is not what vinyl likes. If you want some cushion under it, you will need to look at laminate. And vinyl has issues in direct sunlight...etc.

    The price you have found for a 6.5mm vinyl product that can be glued or floated is quite good. CoreTec has a sales point of $4.79 or higher.

    The choice is yours. Vinyl will do what you want when properly installed (long runs may need the glue down version). It is not cheap. Cheap = laminate. If $3.99/sf is at the top-top end of your budget, you might want to dial it back and look at a nice laminate with a nice underlay. When properly installed, laminate will do everything you want and more. But you have to start with a decent product.

  • T T

    You are really a wealth of information! Thank you so much. Sounds like we will be going laminate.

  • grandpeggy

    Hi, Cancork Floor! You rock, you know....

    We had the independent inspector come in and she confirmed all we knew about how wrong this floor was installed. The contractor returned our money and the vinyl will be hauled out of here today or tomorrow. Sooner the better. Overall, disappointed that we are now nervous about trying this same kind of floor again.

    OKAY! Now what? Laminate? We live in Texas where we all have foundations that move a little so hesitant to do porcelain tile. I hate the idea of going back to carpet. Is proper floor prep the same for laminate? Which brand do you find to be the best?

  • grandpeggy

    Cancork, I wish you were here where we live. :-/

  • grandpeggy

    So, I got some advice from a post above. I good laminate would hopefully be a good choice for us. Any brand recommendations? If you don't do that in public, I can give you an email address. Thank you.

  • PRO
    Cancork Floor Inc.

    grandpeggy, I'm glad the inspector got you want you needed = a fresh start. I'm not 'up' on all the laminate options but you want to look for:

    Thick...10mm is a nice start for medium end thickness. The "nicest" ones are 12 - 15mm thick (very impressive). I like to work with laminates that do NOT have integrated underlay. Just a plan plank. They are slightly cheaper...so that's a bonus.

    That way you get to choose your underlay/pad. The planks that have foam attached are very annoying. They don't let you use anything else with it. And sometimes the foam will squeak when installed over vapour barriers.

    So...a nice thick 12mm laminate without any of the underpad attached. I would look for higher moisture resistance (some out there offer 72 hour spill protection = serious protection in a kitchen). I would then look at a nice underpad (3mm to 6mm cork would be nice). Quietwalk is another nice underlay that is a felted material...quite nice. The quietwalk also produces a 2-in-1 moisture barrier + underpad. Which speeds up the install.

    Once you get those items in your shopping cart, you should be close to your original vinyl purchase ($5/sf should include a VERY good underlay). All the "good" independent flooring stores have several lines of laminate. I would start there.

    Sorry but names for laminate escape me. If you stick with those guidelines, you should do very well.

  • lupines2

    I am looking at vinyl planking for in a old 5th wheel to travel out west and Alaska. We have vinyl planking in a 5th wheel in Texas and love it. I don't know how it was put down though. It has been in that 5th wheel for at least 5 years. I am looking at vinyl planks that have the adhesive on the sides that sticks them together made by Congoleum because it looks like what I have in Texas. I don't know if Armstrong makes them because their website doesn't say. What do you think of the planks that stick together. I tried the snap type and decided not for me and I don't think that is what they are in Texas 5th wheel. They came apart to easy. We put expandos in and out and no problem with it in that 5th wheel. Thank you.

  • PRO
    Amazing flooring

    That problem is usually cause by not using proper expansion gaps. If there is no sunlight exposure and the proper gaps are uses (you will have to remove baseboards or quarter round to inspect) then you could have a humidity issue in the concrete. If you don't use proper vapor barrier installation. Moisture Could be your floor killer.

  • Gail R
    Does anyone have any experience with Harris Luxury Vinyl Cork? We are looking at it for a new construction home on a lake. Permanent residence so climate controlled- and will be on the main floor over a walk-out basement. We have an open-concept living room/kitchen but will use carpet in the living space. We also looked at CoreTec rigid core but the Store felt the cork would feel better and wear well. We will be using it in bathrooms as well- is the Harris vinyl cork truly waterproof?! Any advice is welcome... this is all so confusing. I want the most realistic-looking (wood look ) , waterproof, easy on the legs, scratch resistant. What to buy???
  • PRO
    M Flooring Installation Services LLC

    Gail,

    I'll be honest, I have no experience with Harris LVC. I do have a good bit with the COREtec brand and have yet to find any issues.

    Well to be honest, since this popped into my head as I was typing that, there is one thing about the COREtec brand I wish wasn't the case. Its China made, not that everything made there is the same, just to much bad to be overlooked.

    I do want to make clear, that I do not have a dog in this fight. I only looked into the Harris LVC online, and very little. I do not know where it's manufactured.

    From what I read about the Harris LVC, mostly product specs, and installation methods, I wasn't impressed. My option that the gap between the quality of the two was vast enough I felt I should pass my advice along.

    So here it is, COREtec to my knowledge was the innovator in this new Luxury Vinyl Plank flooring or Engineered Vinyl Plank. They have made a product that solved the laminate flooring problem, and have been improving on that idea ever since.

    There are some other brands that have LVP lines that had you asked about one of those, I would not be writing this. COREtec while being at the top of the market, is not the only quality product there is.

    They are the one that everyone is following and taking ideas from. The Harris product even comes with something called CORK-TEC. That pretty much sums it up right there.

    Also, the Harris from what I read is only 6mm, COREtec is 8mm. As far as being waterproof, COREtec is 100% waterproof, I could not find anywhere that the same was being said about the Harris.

    Hope my 18 cents helps. And I hope you are happy with your new floor, and new home, no matter which product you go with.

  • Jessica Juber

    Just had LVP installed in my home. I love it but am slightly concerned/offput? It looks crooked, meaning it doesn't run parallel to wall. In my living room plank is 2 inch from wall on one end and almost 3 in from wall on the other end. Is this normal? Should I expect a small degree of this?

  • Rachel Smith
    This is the best thread ever! Cancork, you’ve been a great coach for all of us! My deal: just moved into a new home and would like to remove the 10-yr old carpet and padding, and replace with EVP. I’ve decided on a Wanke Cascade model, 20 mil wear layer with a preattached cork backing, and in the click style. I’m looking to do a 330 sq-ft living room that I’d love to lay on the diagonal for visual interest, and then about a 600 sq-ft open area that includes dining room, family room, and a smidge of entryway, laid straight. I would like to do the installation myself (with handier people than me) for cost reasons. Here’s the scoop, and would appreciate some straight talk:
    (A) I live in a house without HVAC. It has tons of windows and the family room has a gas fireplace. Maybe the heat-warping more of an issue for the LVP than the EVP? Or is it equal? What are my red flags here? Bigger expansion spacers for the warmer rooms?
    (B) Any concerns about installation on the diagonal? It sounds like for everything I will need 1/4” spacers at the walls.
    (C) I do think I’ll have one long section that I’ll need a transition piece for. What are these?
    (D) How do I best measure that my floor is level before beginning (e.g. over the length of the room)? Worst case is when I take up the carpet and padding, it’s bad news underneath and really warped. How to proceed?
    (E). It sounds like I’ll need more cork padding in addition to the backing?

    Appreciate all the help from the folks on this thread — it has been so helpful! I really want this installation to be successful. Tips and tricks?

    Thanks,
    Rachel
  • beccaw57

    Hi! Thanks for all the great information that is posted. I was hoping to pick Cancork's brain a wee bit. We've been remolding an old cabin. I've been looking at the floating vinyl planks from Coretec, Flooret Modin, and Armstrong, but I'm worried about the temperature. The cabin can go for long amounts of time in the winter with no one in it, and inside temperature probably gets down into the teens. I don't really want tile due to how cold it is on your feet, and while I love hardwood, I worry about it due to the snow that comes in on boots. It would be on a raised floor with insulation underneath it and I'm looking to do about 1000 sf, which includes a kitchen, laundry room and bathroom, with the largest area being one room that is 20 x 24. Most everything I've read, says the suggested temperature range is between 55 to 85, and I know it will get lots colder then this. In your opinion, what types of problems would the cold cause, and do you have any other suggestion? Any information from anyone on this subject or suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

  • jmdamask

    We have LVT (Shaw) on concrete as part of a insurance replacement. There is no underlayment and we have that clicking or hollow sound. Is there any recourse at this point? Is an underpayment the only way to get rid of that hollow sound of the clicking sound? We are supposed to cosign the insurance check on Friday. Thanks for any assistance .

  • PRO
    M Flooring Installation Services LLC

    So now i know what my old man was talking about when i would call him and say my car was making a sound and assumed he would know what it was. LOL

    I would need to know the product details to know for sure, but most LVP only requires a moisture barrier over concrete. Adding padding to some is an option, not required.

    All most every LVP product has a requirement on the flatness of the concrete. Some vary on the allowable amount, but about 3/16" over 6-10' span is all the manufacturers allow.

    That said, It wasn't until I started installing LVP on newly poured concrete that I found out just how not flat it really is. And the cost to have it done after the fact is pretty insane, most people are not willing to pay that amount, and rightfully so.

    There are videos on youtube that can show you how to check your floor. If yours is way out of acceptable, you could have case. That said, having it redone, and dealing with that nightmare , no thanks.

    If your lucky the installation company billed the insurance for floor level that wasn't done. In which case, I bet it gets fixed.

    I would say if the installer, not the flooring company, is reachable thats your 1st call. All flooring installations come with a warranty, and most are between you the homeowner and installer.

    Good luck,

  • jmdamask

    So if the cost to level the concrete is really high, could adding some sort of underlay make it quiet to walk on? Would it muffle the sound? We have Shaw floorte.

  • PRO
    M Flooring Installation Services LLC

    Don't quote me on this, but I do believe adding underlayment/pad to the Floorte line is an option, but check to be sure.

    I know most of the lower end LVP's state no padding, due to the stress it puts on their locking mechanisms.

    I personally like the LVPs that have the cork backing attached, even if just padding attached beats the feel of the rolled stuff any day.

    More importantly, you're correct I did state that concrete leveling is costly. But it does not have to be, in most cases, the installer who is using his skill set to do the work does not see the amount you and the sales guy agreed upon.

    I bet if you contact the installer directly, you could work out a much better way of doing things. Heck offer him 1/2 of what "they" wanted, and watch him go above and beyond to get you

  • jmdamask

    Our big problem is, the job was already done. I have not signed off on the insurance check yet. I was assured by them before the install that the floor wouldn’t be clicky and loud. I’m beyond aggravated. I was hoping they could pull up the floor and add padding and reuse the same floor. I do love the look of it. Ugh!!

  • maximiles2

    Great reading here but didn't see one for my problem. We had Berry-Alloc click lvt installed in the kitchen/eating space/front hall area, longest length is about 22', which is where the problems are, installed over subflooring (if I remember correctly). On cold mornings there are gaps between ends of the boards, up to 3/16" and this was in the narrower hallway area, about 8' from the front door, though it did expand into the eating space. No problems in the shorter kitchen area. I know it is suppose to have expansion built in, but gaps were getting worse and worse. Had it reinstalled in the problem areas (by the ones who were suppose to be the floor specialists, as opposed to the general all around kitchen remodel workers) and the very next morning saw about 1/8" gap in two areas. I've called them again. My husband wonders if it is because heating ducts run under the floor in that area and that is causing more expansion/contraction than normal. We put the thermostat to 62 °F at night. Ideas anyone?

  • PRO
    M Flooring Installation Services LLC

    I dont know much about Barry alloc LVT, and have not install any planks that use that dreamlock system, That said, if you have gap issues with LVT, my bet would be on the installers breaking the locking mechanism durning installation, or could have also just ha;ppend if there is to much movement when walkng over it. Most of the LVP that i have installed does not have the same ex[and contract issues laminate have.

  • maximiles2

    Thanks for the reply. The guy came out (again) and said the same thing and this time he did the re-installation. We'll see if third time's a charm. So far, so good.

  • Patricia Templet
    We are having issues with Kardean Korlok Rigidcore LVP. We live in a raised Acadian style home in Southeast Louisiana. We had a lot of Subfloor damage and replaced a bunch of subfloor with advantech resin infused osb subfloor. Anyway, we have an open concept kitchen living dining main floor. Our main room is 22 by 20. Where the problem comes in, is in our kitchen in the shorter runs, about 2 or 3 ft lengths. The floor is bouncy in the area around our fridge and again by the pantry. I think it’s because the baseboards and shoe molding are nailed down too tight, but it could be due the contractor using a plywood underlayment overlay to accommodate for a quarter inch height difference from removal of old tile flooring and the new and old subfloor didn’t quite match up. The secured this in place with staples instead of screws and only screwed down in places where the staples popped up. We wanted to screw down the whole thing, but he did not. Could this be causing our problem if the plywood underneath has lifted because the staples were not sufficient?
  • PRO
    M Flooring Installation Services LLC

    Patricia,

    I can answer your questions but without more details, I am almost sure to give you way more information than you might want, or even need. But if I am right about your situation, I might just be the perfect person to tell you what I am guessing you're already thinking. If that is the case, I will tell you everything I know, and answer any questions that I can. I now see why people say to email them privately on his sort of topic, and you can if you would like. But for the greater good, I have no problem talking openly about any topic, just leave the names out, so I don't get myself in trouble. I spent 18 years as an independent contractor working with a few big named companies. And being that the problem you are having, and more so the crash course of how the so-called real world works that was my experience trying to make it right, either makes me able to tell you what could happen or might also make me someone putting too much thought into a simple question.

    That is what happened when an installer tried to go back and fix his own mistake, with an even bigger mistake. Before i got there, all i was told was what you are asking now. Feels like the underlayment is popping.


    I know how this stuff happens if that is all that matters, but if you are wanting to know how to go about getting it fixed. that's a whole other question. I really want to help, so if you can without names of companies or people tell me what it is your looking for, I will give you way more of an answer then your expecting, and or point you in the direction of how to go about making sure that your floor does not ever look like the photo above.,




  • Patricia Templet
    This is a brand new install, and the subfloor was stable underneath the LVP before installation. It’s not a rot issue. We had some water damage from a back door where rain came in under an improperly flashed back door, hence the subfloor repair. Well a these things go, once you start replacing stuff you wind up wanting to update and remodel everything. In an effort to make sure the floor was level all over the entire space before LVP installation. The contractor laid down 3O lb roofing felt, over the entire area as a moisture barrier, then laid down quarter inch underlayment over the entire area before the LVP install to “level” from old to new because there was a slight height difference. But they only staples the underlayment down, not screwed it. We are starting to think the staples weren’t long enough to keep the underlayment secure with floor shifting (as all raised houses do) thus it is “popping up” under our LVP causing it to bough up from the floor instead of lay flat. If we pull one section up we will have to pull the whole kitchen up because it’s continuous throughout. I really doubt the contractor is going to fix it on his dime. We are going to pull the baseboard up to see if the floor shifted too tight against the wall and the shoe might be too tight maybe causing the boughing as well. We are exhausting every option before we pull the floor up. This floor was not cheap because it’s a fairly new product from Kardean. You really can’t tell just by looking at it that there is a problem. It’s when you walk on it that you can see and feel a problem. But to be clear this is a problem with the floor not laying flush, not water damage or rot. These floors have only been in maybe a month or two.
  • Patricia Templet
    So basically just trying to find a fix to the floor boughing up and not laying flat. It doesn’t do this in other places except where the flooring had the height difference.
  • Patricia Templet
    And we chose this particular floor because it said it would not Telegraph and could be laid over subfloor imperfections.
  • PRO
    M Flooring Installation Services LLC

    Patricia,

    Staples are the most widely used process and recommended by the wood underlayment manufactures. That said, you are correct, they also have a recommended staple size depending on certain varying factors, such as subfloor thickness.

    I would doubt the length of the staple would be the issue since most of that length is below the underlayment. I have never seen the staples themselves be pulled loose from the sub-floor, it is the underlayment itself that if not properly acclimated before installed that warps and pops off the staple. Also would be the same result if the underlayment was installed over two sections of the subfloor that was uneven, and not sanded down.

    It is also possible to shoot the staples themselves through the underlayment. Again many factors have to be taken into account when setting the depth of the staples, also the amount of air pressure driving the staples. with the goal being that sweet spot where the staple head is just low enough into the underlayment that its almost level with the top layer.

    The fact its wood underlayment, the entire process of attaching the sheet down to the subfloor is designed to maximize the holding power. Depending on the manufacturers' guidelines there is a set pattern that the staples have to be placed. the spacing of the staples on the seams, the spacing in the field, along with where you start the 1st staple, and the direction you go along the way to the last staple.

    If I had not seen this myself, I wouldn't think it was possible, but with doing everything the correct way, even the underlayment can have a layer pop which is called delaminating.

    Thankfully I went back to read your question, or I would have totally missed it, and again you are correct, the baseboards, and 1/4 round cannot in anyway be attached to the floating flooring, or attach the flooring to the subfloor. Even the newer LVP that claims to not need what the wood products and laminates must have in an expansion gap of around 1/2 inch or whatever the flooring requires at all walls and pretty much anywhere it meets a vertical object, ie cabinets, door jambs, walls, they still make it a suggestion. Due to having the house moving around the floor, having that expansion gap helps. Don't you or anyone else take the baseboards down since I am not clear on everything, and doing so could void any warranty on the whole installation? I just don't get why the installer has not done so, since its the one possible issue that could be corrected easy, and without spending much if any money. Being right there it would make total sense, I hope he understands if he has my luck, everyone is going to point to him, hopefully, if so, he is also just cocky enough to prove them wrong.

    There are independent flooring inspectors out there whose job it would be to come in and figure out the problem, and whose fault, meaning who pays the bill. Nothing with what you have said makes this a homeowners bill to pay, So i could get into all the fun details of how this all played out for me personally being the installer, independent contractor, the "little guy" taking on the big boys with all the money in the world,I shut them down when they tried to make a homeowner cover the bill for the stores mistake, not sure why they thought i would lay down and take it when they came after me the next time. but things might not be the same with the whole southern hospitality and all down there. ( HA HA )

    Sorry about the ranting, I tried to keep it to the helpful facts, but with anything flooring, I know enough to get myself in trouble, but that makes me almost have to tell what I know. If you need anything else or more question, I will do what I can.

    Thanks

    PS. the photo above is what would happen if your installer comes back and to correct the problem, he takes a brad nail gun, and starts driving nails right down through the top of the floor, I guess thinking it would attach the underlayment to the subfloor. Which to his credit it did, but it also left tiny little holes in what would otherwise be a waterproof floor. So every time the floor was mopped it was letting water get underneath, and it slowly started to mold, and grow. I have no idea why they sent me, other then they knew I would figure out what the problem was, they should have also know, there was not a chance I would let them slide on not doing it the right way, since it was there fault this happened, and their red tape that let it go that long grow that bad. Oh they loved me, I honestly laughed at them when they tried to get away with it again. If nothing else, doing it right for $10 today to be sure it's not $20 tomorrow seems like the smart call anyway.

  • GrumpyGramps

    More on Berry Alloc & in response to maximiles2:

    Well, we had to give in to the big boys on our problems with our warping Berry Alloc LVT. We ditched it and bought Qickstep and our builder fitted it last Autumn. We opted to go for the Click system but we glued it down with Quickstep adhesive. The reason was because the click system ensured that all the lines were straight and the ends butted up together neatly. The product seemed to be better than Berry Alloc, it was certainly much harder to cut. We have now seen some very hot weather in the south of the UK and there isn't a hint of warping. Our builder has a friend in the flooring business who has had tremendous problems with Berry Alloc warping, so much so that he won't lay it anymore because he has lost money. The message seems to be clear, just because the marketing brochure shows Berry Alloc inside a room with big windows doesn't mean that it likes the sun, quite the opposite in fact. What amazes me is that here we are in the 21st century and no matter what flooring one lays be it solid wood, engineered wood, lino, LVT etc. there are problems. Even porcelain tiles, whilst not changing dimension, crack if you drop something heavy on them (or break the item that you have dropped), and anyway, they have a 'cold look' about them, even if they are warmed from underneath. AND YET, sports halls are laid with wood and I have never seen any problems with these?

  • ptemplet

    @M Flooring Installation Services LLC, Sorry, for the continued comments, I called the manufacturer and they stated absolutely no roofing felt under the kardean korlok resilient vinyl floor. The asphalt in the felt would have a reaction with the vinyl product. And that the sandwiching effect of 30 lb felt, thin plywood, and 15 lb felt ontop would cause the floating floor to "move" way too much essentially causing buckling or tenting. I DID NOT tell them it was already installed. The contractor has agreed to carefully take the planks back up and prepare the floor correctly. From reading several forums, in order to correct the height difference from old to new floor a leveler would have to be applied?? Or is it advisable to sheath the entire area with high PSI AC plywood underlayment? Some forums suggest screwing in the plywood underlayment making sure perimeter is secured every 2 inches and inside the body every 4 to 6 inches with staggering joints at least two inches off of subfloor joints to avoid telegraphing, then patching screws holes and after acclimation of plywood, patching joints and sanding to avoid high spots. That to make sure the floor is smooth clean and level with no high spots. The techs at Kardean suggested two products for underlayment for a smooth application GP Dry Ply, or Halex? Anyway, your expert advice would be greatly appreciated as the contractor is willing to fix the problem. I do have extra flooring because we have not completed our upstairs yet. So any deffective boards can be replaced. But I would end up having to purchase additional flooring. Hopefully the contractor will help with that cost as well.

  • msshanks

    My flooring is doing the same thing and mine will be 2 years in December ! I hava new home to ! Flooring company has been out 5 times ! No resolution ! What can be done ?

  • aaintx

    I am hoping this is a quick ask - we installed Lifeproof click and lock vinyl plank after removing the carpet in our second floor. After a month or so, I noticed gaps appearing between the planks :-(


    Should we remove and re do using an adhesive? We have the three bedrooms left to complete. Wondering if we should use adhesive from the get/go in those rooms?

  • HU-740275022

    Hi, we just built and moved into our house this past Decemeber (6 months ago). We decided we would save money and have LVP installed on our own after we moved in. While we did buy relatively cheap ($2.50PSF) material from a menards, we were told by installer (also referred via Menards) that it would be fine. Less than a couple months after installation, we have noticed a few areas where the planks are bowing at the ends (as if they were installed too tight). However, we had installer back, who removed the trim and ensured there is space for expansion, etc. My wife has been through hell and back trying to get answers and/or help via menards and the installer...no one is taking responsibility for the issue. The area that it is occurring is in front of a sliding glass door so sunlight could have something to do with it, however, there are a few spots very close that receive the same sunlight and have not been affected. Regardless, I have posted a picture. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.



  • Kale Paul

    None of this crap is worth your money, people. Shady business with Shady business practices. There's an ironic lesson in this... save yourself some money and get real hardwood floors.

  • Kale Paul

    The answer to every single what can be done question on here is you should have never bought this crap. Hardwood. Floors. Real ones, not the ones they sell at the stores.

  • gailryff

    I have the same problem. How was it finally resolved?

  • msshanks

    it hasn't been .on going fight.

  • Candace Conner

    I have a raised foundation home that we recently installed LVP and we are having major issues. The flooring is cupping and raising in different places of the home. When my contractor pulled a piece up, the plywood underneath is molding and soft. The flooring has only been in place for about 6 months. This really concerns me as now we will have to replace the plywood and the flooring of the home, not to say that it won't do the same thing in another 6 months. Any recommendations? Everyone seems to throw it back to the installation, but I am assured that it was correctly installed.

  • msshanks

    so sorry, I think it is a bad product and it is Shaw Corp. who should make things right for all who has had problems. mine looks like the person who is HU on this conversation. and mine has been doing this 1 year after it was installed. what shaw only would look at ; is their cost in the replacement . they would not ever consider the bigger picture of the inconvience of moving all our furniture out and not being able to be in our home while they did the work.

    I think it is pretty BAD, on their part of not honoring their warrentee. which they advertise on their website. just completely frustrated with that company.

Need help with an existing Houzz order? Call 1-800-368-4268