I as a contractor,believe there is more to the story than what you are telling?

You mentioned a lot of subjects that make it sound like you would be an ideal customer .Somewhere there are some red flags that the contractors are seeing.

You mentioned abut everything but budget.I'm sure the contractors have asked about this.Maybe the budget is just not large enough for the scope of work you are expecting.I see this all the time but do let the customer know up front.

Are you talking about kitchen contractors or a general contractor? General contractors typically like big jobs and avoid small ones.

I did have a similar experience. I called 3 different companies, all of whom have regularly done TONS of work in my neighborhood. I told them my budget and that I was keeping my 13 yr old on-site finished hardwood floors, reusing my Corian countertops/sing (had found someone to remove and replace it), was reusing all appliances and had had undercounter lighting (again, to be reused) and pot lights in ceiling 13 years ago so didn't need that. What I needed was the removal of the soffits and replacing the damaged plaster ceiling with drywall, and new cabinets. The refrigerator was the only thing being moved - rest of layout stayed the same.

I told them my budget was $25,000 to $30,000 - a realistic figure due to reusing so much and no change in layout. All three made appointments to come out - all three cancelled multiple times. I have no doubt it was because they preferred to do more expensive projects - I don't blame them. But it would have been better if they'd simply said they didn't do kitchens in my price range - their right.

I finally found an established KD company/installer who would do my kitchen. Did he make the kind of money he would have on a $75,000 kitchen? No! But as he said, it all adds up in the end and mine didn't take as much time. My budget WAS realistic and I'm thrilled.

Just keep looking...

Are you asking for "bids" or "estimates" or "project proposals"? Sometimes it is in how you word it. Where are you finding your fully licensed and insured contractors?

Have you hired a Kitchen Designer to create plans for you? Why not? How is any contractor supposed to know WHAT he would be giving you a price for?

Your idea books are full of very expensive inspiration choices. Do you have the 120K to match the average upscale kitchen redo budget?

2 years is a long time to be looking for someone to work for you. If you were the HR of a company and had a vacancy for 2 years, what would it take for some self reflection and revision of the job description? Or a revision of the salary? You need to look at this from an objective point of view. What about your job had them running for the hills?

quote " we've pretty well educated ourselves about kitchen redo's". Maybe this is keeping the actual experts away

It's all of the above, and the fact that contractors can smell unrealistic expectations, so why waste their time any more than the initial waste of time visit. First thing any contractor does is Google the address and name of any prospective client. Property records are all online these days. They know what the house is worth. They know what the average expenditure for a kitchen is 20% of that in a standard medium COL area. And they hear the upscale wish list. And they don't bother doing an estimate or following up on fantasy. 25K mentioned in another thread won't cover the materials as described. Much less the biggest bite of any renovation, the labor.

While I pretty much agree with most of what's been said, for a contractor to "run for the hills" while saying, "I'll call you" is unprofessional behavior. If he says he will call you then of course he should do so, even if it's to say, "Thanks, but no thanks." If he doesn't want to take the job, he should say so. If he says he will provide a bid, he should keep his word or let you know that he has changed his mind. If your expectations are unrealistic, he should let you know. That is how a professional behaves.

jelly:

I agree that you have to do what you promise to do. On the other hand I feel like a doctor when telling a patient they have a brain tumor. They go into complete denial. Time and time again I"ve told potentials you can't get that for that money. They not only don't want to hear it, they continue to shop until they find someone who will say what they want to hear. Then they get on here and complain about their "contractor".

We thought in this economy there would be plenty of people happy & grateful for the work.

Uh...not sure where you're going here. The economy is going great, and there is a severe shortage of tradespeople.

Rather than try to hire people yourself, why not go through a Kitchen and Design firm that has their own people?

We thought in this economy there would be plenty of people happy & grateful for the work.

Thankfully for contractors, the tables have turned.

IMO. An honorable man or 'wo'-man would be honest & upfront instead of running away & hiding, avoiding telling a potential interested client the truth like a scared little mouse. In my former business usually due to time constraints I had to tell people I didn't want to do jobs for them quite often, I was a bit uncomfortable to tell them the bad news and that wasn't particularly easy, but I DID IT. So many do what 'feels good' to them instead of what's right to do toward other people. Today in many cases its all about 'me- me- me!' instead of considering others. That's just my opinion and I'm entitled to it like everyone else is to theirs.

When I say we've 'educated' ourselves in my other post, I mean that we studied what materials we want & know what we want, maybe I should have left the 'reno' part out & just said educated ourselves about materials. What I had mean by my original statement in my other post about being educated, is that we wouldn't cause any 'delay' to the process for not being educated about what we want. I said it would be an 'easy' job because our kitchen is small, we don't live in a mini mansion i.e. not 'high end', so in comparison our reno job would be 'easy'. Obviously we all know there is nothing 'easy' about doing construction, I thought that went without saying. We all know it happens with blood, sweat, & tears. My point was that some jobs are easier than others but I guess not everyone understood my point. Oh well, se la vie!

With all of these posts and reiterating on how you are "educated and ,knowing exactly what you want". And after my query .You still don't have anything to say about budget? I don't need or want to know about your budget but if I was a contractor coming to bid your job and you were this evasive about your budget as you have been on this forum,I would not deal with you.I would at least be honest with you and do what I promised .

When a contractor questions you about a budget,a honest contractor,They are not trying to see how much money they can squeeze out of you on a job but trying to see if you have a reasonable budget for the scope of work you have planned.

Often times it is not and not worth the effort to deal with it for us.Especially if your going to be a PITA customer.

After not being able to find a contractor in 2 years to do a simple kitchen remodel ,I doubt the problem is with the contractors.

When a contractor questions you about a budget,a honest contractor,They are not trying to see how much money they can squeeze out of you on a job but trying to see if you have a reasonable budget for the scope of work you have planned.

Absolutely. If you say you want X, Y, and Z, a contractor is going to know how much you have to spend, because they can easily see if you're in the ballpark. If you're not, they aren't going to spend hours putting together an estimate when they know you won't be able to afford it. It's simply not worth it.

Been thinking about this situation.

Point one. A 10' by 10' bedroom is incredibly small(our office/computer room is that size and is not nearly big enough for two desks, a bookcase and a file.

Cannot imagine trying to do cabinets/etc. for a kitchen in that space. There is literally not enough space to have a fridge/stove/dish washer in that space.

Base cabs are usually 24" deep and the counter top a couple inches deeper. That is 4' out of the 10'. Newer fridges can be up to 36" deep. That is half the 10'. Add a 25" deep stove with a door that is 24" more when open and there is now 36" left.

I've had requests to remodel that were not very long term sensible. Seems to me what you want is not a good idea for a long term remodel.

I thought I had written what our budget was in my post earlier in this thread, but it appears I have neglected to do so. At times these forums are really good for a laugh, 'Evasive' is not at all how I would describe myself {giggle}! I'm quite an open book. As if my budget is top secret and Maxwell Smart is sleuthing hot on my trail he-he-he! Hubby had told me he wanted to spend between $20,000. -$25,000. on the reno, but we were hoping the contractors would let us know more accurately what we would need to spend in our particular unique space {newbies...}.

I've never paid for any type of reno before, & had no idea if the amount my husband had told me was realistic or not. I had just assumed he knew what kitchen would cost, I hoped the contractor would let us what amount was unrealistic or not by telling us how much his job would cost. However none of them ever asked us what our budget was, as unbelievable as that might sound. We waited for them to tell us what it would cost so we could see if we could afford it. At the time we didn't know of any other way to find out the average going rate for our particular individual situation which is unique unto itself. According to houzz feedback & and estimate we received my husband had underestimated what a reno might cost.

At one point recently we were ready to accept a certain contractors estimate that he gave us, we wanted to sign the official contract & begin our reno, but that person never got back to us. That estimate was for $34,000. and in addition to that the additional cost of cabinets, countertop, tile, flooring & hardware, and 2 appliances. Remember, we are keeping our same floor plan & it's a tiny kitchen with not many cabinets. We were ready to go for it & do it and then we didn't hear anything back.

Your wondering 'why two years' to find a contractor? We have been looking for a contractor for 2 years mostly because we have been sitting here patiently WAITING for them to contact us back like they said they would, thinking they were busy finishing other jobs and would get back to us, sometimes spending weeks and months waiting then finally going on to the next contractor or kitchen design/build place. Waiting around like that wasted a lot of our time & that's why we're angry & frustrated. FYI We value OUR time just as much as you value YOURS dear contractors.

Who said that contractors are 'lowly'? It wasn't me. I just expect them to be honest & direct in doing/not doing business with me, I'm pretty sure they would like the same from us. And FYI my Hubby is definitely NOT a Lawyer or Doctor lol! 100% blue collar all the way. My own Dad bought a piece of woodland and built a house with his own two hands & I helped as a kid, I have a big scar to prove it. He read a book about building houses & then built one, amazing, I respect hard work. Too bad my Dad is not up to helping guide us with our kitchen now, he is well into his senior years.

Our new Plan 'B': At this point the idea of working with a contractor/designer has SOURED for us. After much discussion with my husband this afternoon, our new plan 'B' is to orchestrate this thing ourselves in baby steps, small increments, not relying on only one company to do the entire project, not putting all of our eggs in one basket. That way if one apple in the bunch is bad the whole bushel won't be ruined. We'll see if a local carpenter here can reface or make new doors for our existing cabinets {if so we will paint them ourselves}. Then hire the company who did a beautiful job on our hardwood floors in the rest of our house to do kitchen floor. Local tile person to do backsplash tile. Local fabricator to install a countertop. Paint the room ourselves. Leaving the electrical, & plumbing exactly as it is. We decided no need anymore for an electrician or a plumber. No need for tearing out the sofit, or for tearing down of walls, no new cabinets. Simple & minimal. If our cabinets can't be refaced then maybe Ikea or Kraft maid cabinets installed by a store. After all of these dead ends/no call backs we have become disenchanted and wary and we no longer really want to become involved with a contractor or design company at all, there is too much at stake and too much to loose. This experience has left an awful bad taste in our mouths...... Done.

Most people were trying to help you here. Taking your toys and going home in a huff only hurts you. It perhaps also shows why you may have had difficulty in interactions with contractors.

If you are going to act as your own Designer and GC for the job, you assume responsibility for all of the design documents and quality control yourself. Be prepared. You will need scale diagrams with section details and measurements. For everything.

You will need to understand hinge types, drawer glide types, and how to measure so that your doors will work and not interfere with each other. You will need to order the doors accurately depending on which hinge type and overlay that you prefer.

You will need to understand professional quality spray rigs, clean rooms, and the merits of pre cat vs post cat finishes. You need to tell the painter which you prefer.

You can't just hire someone and then put it all on their shoulders without accurate and professional instructions as to what you want done. That is when you get surprises. Bad surprises.

I truly believe that most of your bad experiences can be traced to a lack of design documentation. Documentation is essential in communicating with contractors. You need those scaled drawings with details and a list of specifications for the level of the project to be known. Without you listing that you want Schuler cabinets in the Brandy doorstyle with a trash pullout, drawer bases, cabinets and molding to the ceiling, a contractor will just guess. Many will guess low quality import. A few will guess basic middle of the road. Some will guess top of the line custom.

Asking for estimates on a kitchen redo without correct design documents is like going car shopping and telling the salesperson that you are there to buy a red car with cruise control and Bluetooth. The possibilities are vast. Even if you say "middle of the road" that is too broad. Is that a Camry or an Altima or Impala, or F150?

Worse, showing up touting your knowledge of cruise control regulators by different companies, when you haven't even selected a model, don't own a roller cabinet, and couldn't give a 2 minute answer about stick vs auto, is going to make you look, well, like one if those instant internet expert jamokes that car sales people or contractors just cannot stand to be around without hazard pay.

No place to go but up if you dust off your pride and learn something.

I can't say as to why the contractors aren't getting back to you, but I like your new plan better. It seems you are getting almost a new kitchen for a lot less money.

I have (re)built 3 kitchens (almost). In two cases (rebuilt), I went to HD and their kitchen designers helped select the proper cabinets, which I had no difficulty installing and are happy with. One of these had a granite countertop installed by a local granite counter fabricator. The third was for my new house and I went to a) Lowes, b) an appliance dealer who also designed kitchens, c) a lumberyard who had a kitchen design department, and d) a kitchen designer who had previously worked with our GC. All four came up with reasonable designs, using their preferred cabinet manufacturer, in short order. None of the designs were very detailed, because they were preliminary, but had cost estimates. We finally went with d) and ware happy with the results. The countertop was supplied by a local granite quarry.

The Big Box stores were both very helpful and we would have been satisfied with their designs; of course they didn't install anything; in the first two cases, I did and in the third, the GC did installed the cabinets selected by the kitchen designer.

Could you post some pics of the present kitchen and maybe a sketch of the layout you have in mind.There are a lot of helpful people here,including myself ,who may help you to get going on your project.

A few things - first of all, 10X10 is very doable for a kitchen, and as I'm from a similar location to the OP, I know that size kitchen in a split is totally normal - there are thousands of them in my town alone. Yes, it's small, but there is certainly room for a Fridge, Range, Sink and dishwasher - usually some type of L shape, and often no table. Second, you are not 'doing someone a favor' in hiring them to do work for you - you are hiring them to perform a job - and right now the market in our area is quite strong for contractors of all types. I would recommend going to a big box or lumberyard/hardware store and speaking with them. They usually have contractors they work with. They may not be the best, but as you said your job is not particularly complicated. Have you even tried this?

Just read the OP again. I don't think it's the stairs. My living area is on an upper level and no one has had a problem with it. They complained a little about the cast iron tub in my remodeled bathroom, but that's about it. (Later I saw the plumber carry the new 80 pound toilet bowl up the stairs with one hand like it was nothing.)

I wonder if it's regional. I remember having repetitive service problems with a shower floor fix in another state, but the only contractor problems I've had in my current state were with lawn sprinklers.

When I was planning my bathroom remodel, I had everything written up with links to installation documents. It was about 3 pages. I had already bought all the fixtures. All the fixtures were staying in the same places. One contractor looked at my document and told me I would never get a contractor to take this job. Another stopped responding when I kept asking for a bid. I really wanted to hire him. He never communicated with me in writing. I had actually hired his brother a couple of times before for other projects. His brother was great to deal with, and the contractor had worked on at least one of those projects as his brother's employee. So that one was weird. Anyway, I got the impression that some contractors want to do things their way. Even the one I hired did not want to wire the switches the way I wanted. I wanted all the bathroom lights on one 3-unit switch and the exhaust fan on the other single switch. He wanted to put the two fan lights and the fan on the 3-unit switch since they all went to the same device. From a usability standpoint, that didn't make sense. I would be turning the fan on accidentally all the time. He rewired it, but in the process sparked my white cast iron sink producing black marks (a couple didn't come off) because he did not take me up on my repeated offer to turn off the breaker.

So, yeah, I guess I've had my differences with contractors. But overall, the results have been good, about 97% satisfied. When I call for bids, I expect some to ignore me. Usually if they never call back on the first contact, I give up and call someone else. Most of the time if they bother to come out and the price is OK, I hire them. I do usually check reviews now before they come out. (A lot of work was done before there were a lot of reviews on the web.)

There are so many ways to find contractors now: Internet directories like Home Advisor, Home Depot's bid system, and manufacturer directories, local references from nextdoor.com, big box stores, kitchen and bath remodel stores.

One of the age-old problems in the industry is flaky contractors. These boards are full of stories (my own included) from frustrated people.

Some
of the pros who hang out here tend to sniff that "you must be giving
off bad vibes" but the fact is that a lot of contractors are horribly
unresponsive, and it's THEM, not YOU. Keep plugging away. That's what we did. And we eventually found a good crew to do our job.

weedyacres:

I make a nice living from folks who have fired contractors. This isn't for the faint-of-heart, let me tell you. There's gold where the other guys won't go. Satisfied one today.

GreenDesigns,

Your reply to me was just plain nasty, and I'm giving you raspberries right now. I doubt you would say these things if you were speaking to me to my face, and if you did speak that way to me I wouldn't want to know you. As for my idea board, I DO happen to have 2 sets of computer rendered kitchen drawings of how we desire our kitchen to be which were drawn by a big box store, and also a second set of computer drawings from another private contractor.

Both sets of drawings contain types & sizes, measurements of cabinets & layout. The one from a big box store has finishes, hardware, styles, moldings, under cabinet trim, brands etc. At first after going to the big box store, we were holding off from using them due to fear of shoddy sub par contractors that a big box might possibly use, and is the reason we at first would rather have used a reputable outside contractor/design firm not a big box store. We are now once again considering a big box {even if it's just for the cabinets} as one of our possible options again due to the lack of call back response from private contactors.

I have shown other potential contractors both the set of big box plans and also the plans from the private contractor to every other contractor who has come here. I explain to them why we didn't chose to use the big box store and how the other contractor didn't return our call. So I believe every contractor who has entered our home has had a pretty good idea of what it is we want our kitchen to be. I know what brand-quality-style cabinets I would prefer if we were to buy any, what hinges, what pulls, what color, finish, style etc. I know what flooring, countertops, lighting, tile, paint etc. FYI I DO have a very SPECIFIC LIST. I don't like your attitude toward me & assumptions about 'me' & your personal attack is coming across as mean spirited & not helpful at all. Opinions are welcome, but I didn't come here to be insulted by you.

I'm not afraid to take on managing this reno myself & nothing you say will scare me off. Unfortunately it seems I have no other 'choice' but to take this reno on myself, & if I want to take away my toys and go play by myself I will!

HandyMac, in our 10 x10 kitchen we do currently have full size appliances: a gas range, exhaust fan, microwave, dishwasher & counter depth french door fridge with bottom freezer as well as having an ample kitchen island & L shaped cabinet layout. It all fits.

freeoscar, yes as you said our 10 x 10 size kitchen is quite common, everyone on our block originally had virtually the same size kitchens, some have since had new work done & created open concept larger kitchens but many still have our same floorplan. Lots of houses on our block aslo have additional downstairs kitchens, these are often referred to as 'Mother-Daughter houses'. Yes, we have gotten a design drawn up by a big box store previously, and may go back to consider having our cabinets installed by them if they can't be refaced, whichwe are now looking into asking a local carpenter.

rockybird, thanks for liking our new game plan!

Mtvhike, we indeed may need to utilize a big box store.

weedyacres, yes I too noticed there is a lot of 'sniffing' going on around here lol. Glad to hear from somone who understands my frustration. I'll look at your story & read about what happened to you! Glad you eventually found a good crew to do your job! Are they in NJ? Thanks for the encouragement!

Jane, thanks for sharing your story, the part about the brother was amusing & odd. Glad you finally had good results and are satisfied now!

Joseph Corlett, no one out there seems to want our 'gold' lol! I guess we'll keep it!

I agree with GreenDesigns in that I think that you would have avoided a great deal of issues by investing in a real design from the beginning. A cabinet layout from a box store is pretty far from real design work. There is no plumbing or electrical plan, and there is barely a good cabinet layout in most "designs" produced by Big Orange. You are not getting good design work free, no matter the propaganda. It requires an up front financial investment into your project.

If your project isn't with a couple of thousand up front, then I don't know what to say. Mistakes certainly cost MUCH more in the end.

If you are so smart, do it yourself. It's called sweat equity. You will find it isnt so easy. Too many people are ignorant when it comes to considering the difficulty level or the timeline or the price with remodels. There is a learning curve to everything too, if you didnt know that.

Otherwise, pay up.

It is probably wise to say what you want IN GENERAL and not get into all the particulars till they are excited to work with you. If you act like a control freak with 400 different particulars you want they will run guaranteed.

It isn't you, it isn't your budget, there are just many unprofessional people in this business. We live in a home that cost 7 figures and have had the same thing happen many times. I'm just bringing up the price of our home because the snobbery on here bothers me. Even with contractors that came recommended, they promise a bid by X date and fail to deliver. The crazy thing is why would you recommend a contractor again after your neighbor or friend tells you they can't even get the guy to follow-up with a quote??

For our kitchen we met with a few designers and ended up hiring the most professional one who happened to be at a high-end place but because we ordered a less expensive cabinet line, our cabinet cost was in line with a more mid-range shop. I think there are a few benefits to this approach, first you have a close to final design and second the contractor often has a relationship with the designer so there is an incentive to keep that relationship good vs. a one-time thing. I don't know how much more this method may cost than a big box store but it may be worth exploring.

I'm a member of Angie's list, a local review site that you need to pay for, and I check yelp reviews and Houzz reviews. Better to schedule a couple of people in a week and assume a 30-50% success rate.

I found this thread while also trying to figure out how to begin our renovations. What I have gathered here is that one must know the cost, budget and terminology before contacting anyone. Is this correct?

We are trying to extend a room to allow an additional bath and closet, kitchen renovation, outdoor patio and possible mudroom and at some point an in-ground pool. We cannot even get ballpark estimates to see if our financing potential ($100-150.000) will even come close. I don't want to spend $3000 to refinance and another $3000 on an architect or designer just to find out we aren't worth a GC's time because we are off by $10,000 or I use a wrong word on the initial phone call.

I worked in a medical field for 15 years. If we approached our services this way, no one would ever get help. "sorry, your dog has a broken leg to explain what you thought was a sprain, so since you didn't know what it would cost to treat it, or what to call it when you walked in, you aren't worth our time."

Katie Hulka:

Find a reputable GC in your area. Let him know you've got a $150,000.00 budget, excellent credit, and a wish list. He should be able to instantly show you 3 or 4 files of completed jobs similar to yours and tell you how much he can do for your budget.

Subtract the pool, downgrade the kitchen and baths to entry level, and you might squeak in at your budget in a low cost area of living. Just the pool, done correctly, would consume the whole budget. Just the bath addition, if it's a master, could consume the whole budget. Heck, just an upper end kitchen could consume all of that 150K budget.

It is difficult to find a reputable contractor when few have websites and I have not found a single one from 3 popular listing sites that is listed in more than one place. The ones (about 5) that I have called have not returned my calls. One was a referral from a friend who had them do extensive work and I spoke with him at length. He indicated that with some wiggle room, he was interested. 2 weeks later, no call back to schedule to see the house.

I am in North Texas. Small pools run $30-40,000. We have not selected any specific materials for flooring, counters or anything to "downgrade" yet, but if they go by pinterest and wishbooks, good luck finding many good images of basic builder grade materials. I am quite flexible, but if adding 17 feet and a bath is $150,000, I might as well give up.

I might add, this is a 1200sf 60 year old home.

Don't let Sophie discourage you. Many have done projects for much less than the large numbers she throws out. Just keep making calls and eventually your patience will pay off. It sucks that the industry isn't more responsive, but that's how the world currently works.

Yea, what one person estimates online doesn't mean that is the price in your community. You will get more for your money where you live and also dependent on materials chosen. For example, If you use a store plan for kitchen cabinets instead of custom cabinets that will affect your kitchen budget greatly. I often disagree with a lot of price quotes here, they must live in high cost of living areas. A pool costing 150,000 better have shooting water faucets like that of the Bellagio... High end kitchen is more like 40,000 to 60,000.... and that is like choosing marble and everything custom, and huge kitchen, industrial appliances, whatever else excessive you can think of....

Thanks. Those numbers were more along the lines of what I was thinking. There are multi-million homes in my neighborhood that have amenities like that, so we can't overbuild, but the remaining older homes are mostly small lake homes, and we want to keep some original feel. Otherwise I would bulldoze and build a geodesic dome! (plan B :-))