I thought liquid softener and detergent combined created a very hard plaque like crud that clings to everything? I kind of imagine it like washing VERY oily rags and having a reside when done at the end of the cycle, but you can't just see the residue of the FS.

The softener in the wash cycle will prevent deep cleaning, the FS coats the fabric and won't allow detergent and water to penatrate the fibers to properly clean. After awhile the clothing will turn dingy and have odors. synthetic fabrics will be the first to suffer, with natural fabrics cotton and linen following quickly behind. This is w hy no detergent manufacturer makes a detergent with a true FS.

Larsi, have you tried adding a significantly reduced amount of FS to the rinse or even next to last rinse?

Kids this is truely a bad idea. LOL

Conventional liquid softener should not be added with detergent. The oils and lubricants in it (which is why it cuts sudsing) reduce the effectiveness of the detergent. I recall advisory back in the day that scum/curd can form from the reaction. I suppose YMMV.

Purposely adding a bit to cut a case of oversudsing is a "emergency" (LOL) situation, not normal intended use of it.

Rain Barrel liquid softener years ago was formulated differently so as to be compatible with detergent ... it also wasn't a very effective softener.

Yes the scum and the coating of the clothing preventing cleaning is why there's no detergent with a true FS. .

Larsi I would try adding the fs to the first rinse.

If I remember correctly FS in the wash cycle causes detergents and soils that are held in suspension to land back on the clothing. And maybe cancells out the chemical in detergent that keeps washer parts clean.

not everyone you know loves fabric softener. i hate the stuff. only use it for the new Coyuchi towels. My clothes come out soft and wonderful without it. But the towels require it.

I don't use fabric softener on anything. I've tried it maybe a handful of times in the last 3 years, but just don't find it necessary. I don't use it on anything. I love the feel of my towels, the texture and the hand of the fabric.

I love it the Larsi has given this a try, and has gotten some feedback on the practice. Interesting that the condensing dryer is impacted with the fabric softener.

Dadoes can you explain why condensing dryers might be affected by FS and vented dryers don't seem to be?

Thanks everyone. I figured with liquid fabric softener being dispensed in the final rinse of our machines, the softener (what ever is left) after spinning remains in the tub, hoses, seals, plastics, metals and of course on the fabrics.

I thought if it went thru 3 rinses, very little would remain in the machine and on fabrics. I did notice that items were softer than when using no liquid FS.

If y'all think it could create crud or ickiness....then this will not be my normal practice!

Larsi, I fully agree about softener making the clothes wetter at the end. I thought that when I first read Pinks remarks about them drying faster with softener, but kept my remarks to myself. I have found that certain detergents, Sears powder in fact, makes the clothes feel drier after spin without softener, drier than say using Tide. I have noticed others over the years that seems drier also but cant remember what brands. I have seen a version of Suavitel that says Fast Dry on the bottle but it stinks to me so did not try it. I mix my Downy 7-1. 1 cup Downy to 7 cups water. This seems to soften without over doing it plus doesn't gum up in the cup or need more dilution.

Only difference I could see is that there would be less softener on the laundry after 3 rinses plus the spin. But as long as you are doing a warm or hot wash I can't see the gunk thing ever happening. That's usually cold water washers using too much product.

My towels with the softener are quite quick but my dryer is vented. I can say that the weight of thr towel will make a big difference. F.ex my 550 g coyuchis dry much more quickly than the 850 g RH towels. So if you ahve big fluffy towels...

@Larsi are you sure the spin is the same? Sometimes, as we've discussed, the load doesnt balance perfectly. I've had to do the extra spin (old thread). But I would think that doesnt apply to the. more powerful LiGi.

The gunk will form even in hot water if mixing detergent and fabric softener together, its a reaction between the two. Since rinses are cold the machine won't have a hot wash without the gunk so its left with no hot cycle to keep itself clean.

Think professional laundry services use liquid fabric softener on certain fabrics in wash to prevent water from fully saturating some things.

Regardless tthere's reasons there's no true detergent with FS on the market.

Larsi I would just add the downy to the first rinse and see how the clothes feel. You will notice a difference in how things feel without FS as your used to the FS texture..

My LiGi has no "crud", LOL. Last night I ran a Cottons Hygiene Cycle 160F with powdered washing machine cleaner. Shiny, bright, gleaming and perfect!

@Sparky....100%. Sears powder is the worst detergent (IMO) for making laundry look dull, dry and dehydrated!

@Roc....Yes, sometimes a Miele will not spin as fast as it is set for (in my case 1400rpm). But I have noticed that any load with fabric softener takes longer to dry. Miele Little Giant is much less prone to reduced spin speeds though...it just does a quick balance and takes off. Ha ha ha

@Mama....dispensing the fabric softener in Rinse 1/3 or 2/3 would be amazing...but I would have to make sure I was home/in the room at the exact needed moment. I love watching my machine but I cannot, NO....I refuse to have to manually add liquid FS at a specific time :)

I do usually dilute whatever liquid fabric softener with water, but never a 7:1 ratio. Yesterday I bought some natural, plant based softener from Sprout's Market (Wildflower). Smells nice in the bottle. I tried it last night on a load of cotton tees, underwear and socks. I added it to the liquid FS compartment and it was automatically dispensed in Rinse 3/3. It for sure left things softer than no FS, but nowhere as soft as say Downy of Up & Up Spring Bloom.

I do not worry about any build up, crud, mold or mildew in my washer. I have been using a front loader in the USA for almost 20 years. I run a minimum of two hot washes a week (140F or higher). The machine is wiped down after the final usage, detergent & softener tray removed and cleaned with HOT water and then left out of the machine until the next use and the washer door is ALWAYS ajar when not in use.

Of course you have no reason to worry about crud in your machine...why would you even think that.

By the way...if you look in small independent grocery stores you may find big gallon jugs of pink FS...you might like it.

Does your LiGi have a bleach dispenser that dispenses in the first rinse?

I have added FS to the wash cycle a couple of times when suds got out of control- to me anyway. But that was well into the wash cycle. Would that present the same problems? I did think that I could make a habit of it but maybe not.

I never use bleach, so I am trying to recall the books instructions on my miele3033. If you use bleach it is put into the prewash compartment, and then you can't use the prewash cycle, because this compartment gets rinsed out some minutes before the end of the main wash cycle. This is how bleach is dispensed before the drain and spin of the main wash. If you put FS in this compartment it would be dispensed at the end of the main wash, before the drain and spin, and the rinse cycles. But again, you cant use the pre-wash cycle if you want to do this, or it would be dispensed at the very start of a load instead. So I don't know if the LiGi works the same but it might.

The LiGi does not have a bleach dispenser and, per the manual, chlorine bleach is contraindicated. Enduring I'm surprised your 3033 has a bleach compartment as I thought only the 4xxx XL series allowed for bleach with the plastic tub. Neat.

I have mixed feelings about the FS use in this discussion. I agree that adding it to the main wash could interfere with cleaning (detergent busy holding FS in suspension rather than soil), but question the "clumping" effect as described. If FS can be so damaging during the main wash -- with detergent -- it seems the same would be true when added to the final rinse. Again, I understand the reasons FS should be added later in the cycle, just question if it's really that bad. I use very little FS as it is, and more for fragrance than feel.

Alex, in my w1918 bleach isn't recommended either. I have used bleach probably 10 times in my life. My first experience was sticking it in a load of blue jeans in the mid 60's. I just threw it in! On top of my jeans, lol. I think I went ahead and wore those blotchy jeans, and it was several years later that I realized I was actually ahead of the fashion curve;)

Larsi, I hope you didn't think I was saying your washer had crud..I didn't think that at all.

@MamaP.... I know you do not think my machine has crud. With all my HOT washes each week and after use machine protocol I have used for almost 20 years with a front loader....Crud has ZERO chance with me!! ;)

Scum caused by detergent + softener won't necessarily accumulate on the machine parts in an environment such as Larsi's in which plenty-hot washes are the norm (yay!), but that doesn't mean it won't occur in the wash water due to the chemical reaction of the products.

I use the Ariel with Downy all the time and haven't noticed any crud in my washer....However, Ensueno has to be mixed with water in my washer anyway, or I will notice a buildup in my fabric softener dispenser real quick. Ensueno is thicker than Downy I believe.

Jody, if you mean Ariel detergent "with Downy" that's likely just the scent, not actual Downy in the formula.

Jody the powder detergents with fabric softener isn't really fabric softener.

Ah, ok. That is a bummer...I guess. I always add fabric softener anyway, but still...

Jody, there's a softening of some sort, think its maybe a clay compound in the powders with FS, I notice a very slight difference using them without LFS, slightly more smooth fabrics. But I think as Dadoes says its more of a scent thing. I do like the powders with FS on jeans, as it seems to give them a more finished feel where LFS IMO is terriable on jeans, makes them too floppy lol

Because @Larsi mentioned I had an aversion to FS, I tried it on my husbands chore jeans. Ick, they don't feel clean :/