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heruga

Suggestions for a shade tree

10 years ago
last modified: 10 years ago

Well here's the story. I have a group of evergreen azaleas out in my front yard in full sun. There is also a prunus mume right behind it. If it weren't for the prunus mume providing some shade to the azaleas, the azaleas will be scorched. But knowing that prunus mume have such a short lifespan(this one around 10+ years) and once it dies, the azaleas will not have any shade. So I want to plant a shade tree in front of the azalea bed now(approximately 20 feet away from the azaleas)so that by the time the prunus mume dies, the shade tree will be big enough to provide shade. In the image below you can see the azalea bed on the right side of the lawn. The shade tree will be planted 20 ft in front of the azalea and slightly more to the left which is more towards the center of my lawn.

Anyway here is my criteria:

1) Must be big enough to provide shade for the azaleas meaning it should be 40-60 feet big but not bigger than that

2) Must originate from Japan

3) Average lifespan longer than 80 years

4) Must be deer resistant

5) Must be super fast growing. Has to be tall enough to provide shade by the time my prunus mume dies

5) Preferably a conifer or anything that doesn't drop leaves

6) Full sun or part shade tree(zone 7a north NJ)

Comments (20)

  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    So you want evergreen? Conifers don't drop leave, but they do drop needles. All trees drop at least something -- whether it's leaves, spent blooms, pine cones, or seed/fruit. Do you want something conical in shape? or more spreading?

    How about a nice Asian persimmon tree? You can benefit from the fruit! But they do drop leaves, of course. Of course it may not get large enough for you. And they do not grow fast.

    Most super-fast growing trees do not stop growing at a certain height. They get huge and wood is weak. I'm afraid you might have some unreal expectations.

    Also, deer can't feed on them once they outgrow their size, so no worries there. But you may have to protect them until that happens.

    If conical is OK, you might consider Cryptomeria.

    Other options might be Cercidiphyllum japonicum (Katsura tree). And I'm a sucker for a nice big Japanese maple.

  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    We actually did have a persimmon tree before but it died in winter. I actually want something that deer won't eat even if the tree is still small. I don't mind needles or cones, I just don't want leaves.

    Would a green giant arborvitae work? I'm just worried about the deer eating it

  • 10 years ago

    So far the Japanese apricot looks fine as far as can be seen using only the distant photo provided. If it is not grafted on an incompatible root-stock then I see no reason to assume it is going to die anytime soon.

  • 10 years ago

    Conifers are usually not considered "shade trees" - deciduous trees with a largish spreading canopy are typically classified under that category :-) "A shade tree is any tree grown specifically for its shade. This term usually applies to large trees with spreading canopies. Some of the most popular shade trees in temperate countries are oaks, maples, ashes, lindens, and elms." So leaves and shade trees typically go hand in hand. And the katsura is also an excellent choice for that purpose!! The Green Giants, while fast growing, will not provide much of a shade presence. Deer do tend to avoid them but they are NOT Japanese in origin, although they do have some Japanese parentage. The cryptomeria is also a reasonable choice but again, not a big shade producer.

  • 10 years ago

    No but the prunus mume won't live my whole lifetime would it? I'm 22 now and I still have another 70 years to live(assuming I'm healthy lol) and the prunus mume will definitely not live that long.

    I also like the idea of Katsura tree but are they deer resistant? And fast growing?

    Btw I absolutely hate oaks, big maples, ashes, beech and all those native gigantic deciduous trees so none of that

  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    And embothrium, here is an old thread I posted about my prunus mume. I posted pics of the tree bark. Can't tell if it's grafted or not.

    http://forums2.gardenweb.com/discussions/4105676/is-my-japanese-plum-tree-dying

  • 10 years ago

    know it doesn't originate from japan, but acer platanoides 'royal red' would add a nice pop of color

  • 10 years ago

    Actually I've decided to get a pinus thunbergii specimen and plant it there next spring. It gets to 40 ft tall so in 10 years(I speculate thats how long until the prunus mume lives) the Japanese black pine should be big enough to provide shade

  • 10 years ago

    Not sure how much shade that it will provide. Doesn't have a very dense canopy.

  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    European Beech, European Oak, Douglas Fir

    Japanese elm, or hybrid elm

    One thing to consider about Hinoki cypress is that its pollen can potentially contribute to allergy issues, although the wood does smell beautiful. If you have enough room for the roots, maybe a camphor tree, they have very aromatic leaves. Ancient camphor trees are venerated at several temples in Japan.

    Picea glehnii and Abies sachalinensis are both native Japanese evergreens.

    Japanese Black pine (Pinus thunbergii ) is very shapely, but may be vulnerable to disease in America. Japanese Red pine (Pinus densiflora ) is very common in Japanese forests.

  • 10 years ago

    Thanks I will definitely look into that

  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    "Btw I absolutely hate oaks, big maples, ashes, beech and all those native gigantic deciduous trees so none of that"



    Okay. Why?

  • 10 years ago

    What about ginkgo biloba?

  • 10 years ago

    Because they are such a nuisance. They do nothing but get gigantic and there is always a risk of big tree branches falling anywhere, the amount of leaves they drop in the fall is so annoying they cover up all my other plants and practically make my garden lose its appeal, they don't even bloom(or insignificant blooms that causes allergies!), they always seed or sucker itself creating more of those gigantic pests-especially ash trees, I consider them to be invasive. Proven by a 30 feet opportunistic ash tree growing in my forsythia hedge! and bunch of other small ones I still have to remove. A lot of maple seedlings and I just removed two 10 feet maple tree the other day that was growing in my forsythia hedge. Oaks drop acorns and thats so annoying because that means more squirrels and chipmunks which are pests themselves in my garden for various reasons. Stupid maples and oaks and beeches coming from my neighbors property are shading my backyard and causes such a mess with its leaves. Such an eyesore they are

  • 10 years ago

    Gingko is cool but its from china so no... I've narrowed it down to this: Hinoki cypress specimen or Katsura tree or a giant cryptomeria or a Japanese red pine. Now is the Japanese red pine also disease susceptible here in America?

  • 10 years ago
    last modified: 10 years ago

    Also, consider Stewartia pseudocamellia. It is native to Japan, I believe. I've never grown one, so don't know how fast or slow or difficult. Year-round appeal with interesting bark.

  • 10 years ago

    Metasequoia, at one point or other it was native here and Japan, it grows fast, lives long and you can limb it up if you like for a formal look. It does drop needles though.

    Plant the Ogon cultivar. I believe the initial irradiated seeds were "made" in Japan by the New Oji Paper Company. Paper company I tell ya.

    http://conifersociety.org/conifers/conifer/metasequoia/glyptostroboides/ogon/

    It is as eye catching as anything I have seen and grows fast in virtually full sun herd.

  • 10 years ago

    I went "plant hunting" last week and got lots of metasequoia seeds.

  • 10 years ago

    Heruga, it seems to me that your odds of achieving a long lived tree must be greater if you choose something native to your area. These are living things, not furniture, and they don't come with guarantees. Since you don't care for native trees, were I you I would probably swing for the fences - plant what you want and enjoy for the life, whatever it may be. As others have said, if it's not very long, it's an opportunity to try again.