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acarsme

Crape Myrtle questions

9 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago

Hello,

I really want to cut down my pear tree in my front yard. I'm not sure what kind of pear tree it is, but I think maybe a Kieffer. The main reason I want it gone is because I can't stand the fruit and how it draws wasps and then the rotting fruit on the ground starts to ferment (If I don't get out to pick them up). I'm really interested in planting a crape myrtle, but I'm confused over the information I am finding on the internet

I'm interested in a tree that is about the same height/width as the existing pear tree.

I think I've narrowed it down to a Natchez or Miami variety.....however when I search the internet I get a wide variety of information about just how big, especially the Natchez will get. I've seen information stating 20 ft tall, but I've seen pages listing up to 30 ft tall. I think my current pear tree is about 20 ft tall as a guess.

Does anyone have a definitive answer on how big I can expect either of these varieties to get, especially compared to my existing pear tree?

Also, I am interested in the peeling bark on these trees, but my wife says cleaning up the bark might be a pain......from the pictures I've seen it looks like the bark is almost paper thin.....can you normally just mow over this bark when it's on the ground, or does it have to be cleaned up by hand?

Thanks.

Comments (43)

  • 9 years ago

    I have no experience with Miami but I have many 'Natchez'. The bark is indeed beautiful and cleaning it up is not a problem - it doesn't peel that often and the pieces are not very large. In terms of height, for many small trees the difference between 20 and 30 feet is simply a matter of age, or where they are sited or the soil. Either is possible.

  • 9 years ago

    Bark peels in mid- to late-summer for me. Not really that bad. What is that other plant growing to the left? And where are you located?


  • 9 years ago




    These pix of 'Natchez' are from the Nat'l Arboretum. This is one of the taller growing CMs. Funny you didn't mention the flower color, in this case white. Where you are located will influence ultimate size.

  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Here's an example of the construction-paper-thin peeling bark on ~20ft CM in July. Have never picked any up other than to admire it. Either becomes one with the bed mulch on its own or is mowed away with the grass.

  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    All trees drop something. Just mow through the bark strips or make a bed for the tree to grow in, that the fallen bark can just sit on, as part of the mulch.

    Of course if it turns out you're actually too far north for crape myrtles it won't matter what these do - you'll have to choose something else anyway.

  • 9 years ago

    Don't plant one near a door, you will have to sweep up flowers. 'Natchez' is my personal favorite, but I think it may get a bit too big for your location (I see a power line, YIKES).

    Here are some of my crepes if you are interested:

    'Best Red' (of the "black diamond" series) it is a "dwarf"

    I have since performed pruning, and it looks much better (I want the tree form, not natural shrubby form). This one flowers red (like 'dynamite') but has purple

    Here is 'Catawba' another one of the "dwarfs" that gets to be around 12' tall

    It is a crappy picture, but you can see it starting to take on the beautiful spreading, open-canopy form. This one flowers purple, red fall color, green leaves.

    Here is my large, inconveniently located 'Carolina Beauty'

    Picture is pretty self-explanatory. This is about the same size normally achieved with 'Natchez'. This one has very bland fall color.



  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    'Natchez' is a P.H.S. Gold Medal winner for 2017.

    Growing 20 to 30 feet tall and 20 to 25 feet wide, this tree is sought after for its beauty and low maintenance, as well as its long bloom period (from summer to frost).

    http://phsonline.org/programs/gold-medal-plants/plant-library/lagerstroemia

  • 9 years ago

    'Natchez' will eventually grow to the size of my 'Carolina Beauty'. It just takes a while, since that one was planted in 1962.

  • 9 years ago

    I live in northern Mississippi. Clay soil galore.

    I did prefer a white flower for my tree. I have many other plants and bushes that are reds and yellows. I like white to help offset the abundance of other colors I have going on around the house.

    I'm glad to hear that the peeling bark is not an issue. I plant on actually planting the new tree to the right of where the existing pear tree is, so I don't think the power line should be a problem....

    I believe the bush to the left of the tree is a Rose of Sharon bush. It split in half during a big tstorm last summer. Part of the trunk was left in the ground, but I had to cut most of it away. It is starting to come back from the remaining trunk, but it is growing crooked at an angle.

  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    It is starting to come back from the remaining trunk, but it is growing crooked at an angle

    Cut the rest down low at end of winter to start it over. You can actually do this every year with this species and still have normal flowering, if a short bush is desired.

  • 9 years ago

    Agree with embothrium. Hard prune the ROS. Do you see crepes growing often in your area? It would really help to know your USDA hardiness zone.

  • 9 years ago

    7B, northern Mississippi. Crape Myrtles are the tree I see the most often around here in yards. But usually the smaller varieties, especially any that are real close to a house.

    We have very large crape myrtles all over the grounds at my work. Not sure what the varieties are, but they seem even larger than what a Natchez variety might get. They have peeling bark though.

  • 9 years ago

    Ok, I was just making sure because some people come here wanting to grow crepes when they aren't hardy in their zone. I think 'Natchez' will be fine there, but I would choose one of the smaller varieties. I would check out 'catawba'.

  • 9 years ago

    Acoma and Glendora are smaller white crapes.

  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The ones with tribal names are all from the U.S.N.A.

    Crape-myrtle Questions and Answers

    http://www.usna.usda.gov/Gardens/faqs/crapemyrtlefaq2.html

    Crape-myrtle Quick Guide Chart

    http://www.usna.usda.gov/PhotoGallery/CrapemyrtleGallery/CrapeTable.html

  • 9 years ago

    'Acoma' doesn't have the bark like 'Natchez'. You could keep the rose of sharon sheared into a formal shape, then you would certainly have room for 'Natchez'.

  • 9 years ago

    Acarsme, you are a lucky duck, you can actually grow the plant that you want to grow really badly. And that peeling bark is what most people love about the Crape Myrtle. If you have enough room grow yourself a Live oak tree. The live oak is the iconic tree of the south. If I moved down to zone 7 or more southern, the 1st thing i would do is plant me a southern Live oak shade tree.

  • 9 years ago

    I like live oak as well, and will be starting mine from acorns this spring. I just don't think that this is the appropriate place for them. 'Natchez' is my favorite crepe myrtle, and I want to work one in sometime soon.

  • 9 years ago

    I will still be planting a live oak ;) I just don't think it is a good fit for Morgan's landscape. My crepes get plenty of nice flowers.

    Don't take me the wrong way, those silver maples have got to go, and I will ABSOLUTELY be planting a live oak. And a lacebark elm somewhere nearby (maybe 35ft away).


  • 9 years ago

    I remember now that you have the Live oak acorns;)

  • 9 years ago

    There are so many crape myrtle varieties. Honestly, it depends on size and what color blooms float your boat.

    Natchez and Biloxi get very large. Nice bark color though.

    Miami is nice bright pink - more spreading and smaller overall.

    Do your homework because there are just so many. Some don't have interesting bark, some have nice fall color.

    Some personal favorites of mine that are more medium size (although get large with great time) are Dynamite, Red Rocket, Arapaho, Catawba, Dallas Red, Pink Velour, Sioux, Tuscorora, Zuni.


    Read up!


  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Lagerstroemia indica and hybrids within this species are hardy to USDA Hardiness Zones 7 to 9 but are often killed to the ground in severe winters in Zone 7. Lagerstroemia fauriei is reliably hardy as far north as USDA Hardiness Zone 6. The USNA hybrids that have Lagerstroemia fauriei as a parent are hardier than Lagerstroemia indica cultivars, and develop into large specimens even in the colder parts of Zone 7. Varieties that have only Lagerstroemia indica parentage, such as the USNA hybrids ‘Catawba’, ‘Conestoga’, ‘Potomac’, ‘Powhatan’, ‘Cherokee’, and ‘Seminole’, are periodically cut back to the ground by severe winters.

    Crape-myrtle Questions and Answers

    http://www.usna.usda.gov/Gardens/faqs/crapemyrtlefaq2.html

  • 9 years ago

    acarsme That pear tree is really pretty. Is that your house nest to it? It looks huge compared to the house. lol

  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    The hybrids "freeze" here (lagerstromeia indica x faurei) and l. indica tends to do better here. Regardless, it doesn't affect the plant badly, just makes the leaves turn brown and cling before turning color. I have only twice seen a crepe killed back in zone 7 (I work in landscapes around the state, and in the mountains, zone 7 and 6) and they are usually the hybrids rather than the species. I would go with 'Natchez' and remove or hard prune (then then shear formally) the rose of sharon. I think the pear tree is rather ugly (even compared to 'Bradford') and that the OP is making a good choice.

  • 9 years ago

    I grow the following Crepes in NJ/Zone 7: Catawba, Dynamite, Zuni, Black Diamond and a Dwarf Hopi. Not sure about all the complicated genetics, or the role of specific positioning within the yard, but so far, we like our Dwarf Hopi best..., but not so sure about the "Dwarf" part (no dieback and vigorous), there can be dieback on the Catawba and Dynamite in bad winters though. Our Dwarf Hopi (planted on the south side of the house), blooms from May into October!

  • 9 years ago

    I am sure that 'Catawba' is one of the lagerstromeia hybrids because I grow one and experience slight dieback (even in borderline z8). Not sure about dynamite, never seen it in person. I planted a 'best red' this year (black diamond) and it didn't freeze (not a hybrid). I googled the dwarf hopi, I might try to find some next spring.

  • 9 years ago


    Logan, the reddish ones above and below are Dynamite; the pale pink is Hopi (supposedly dwarf).

  • 9 years ago

    Wow! That is a really vibrant red (most "red" ones like 'Tonto' are really reddish-pink)! The only one I saw with that flower color is 'best red'. The hopi is really nice, like a dwarf of my 'carolina beauty'. Looking at pics on google, it seems to have nice fall color as well (unlike 'carolina beauty').

  • 9 years ago


    Logan, these are 'Zuni'. These don't have much horizontal spread as they are positioned by a wall of Southern Magnolias and Lilacs, but they do have height. Flowers are more magenta, but they are cold hardy!

  • 9 years ago

    'Zuni' is marketed as purple, so I will know to stick with 'Catawba' for that. The flowers on that one remind me of 'Carolina Beauty' as well.


    https://www.google.com/search?q=crepe+myrtle+zuni&espv=2&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwia9urL-dHQAhUGwiYKHfJVCysQ_AUICCgB&biw=1366&bih=662#imgrc=_

  • 9 years ago

    Dynamite ('Whit II') is from Carl E Whitcomb.

    http://drcarlwhitcomb.com/Patented_Plants.html

  • 9 years ago

    Some of those Crapes are beautiful, when I see ya'll in zone 8a and up.

  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Poaky, my Zone is 7a/NJ. It seems like Zone 7 is pretty firm border between more 'northern' species and more 'southern'/subtropical species,

    In Zone 7 there is a lot of overlap.

  • 9 years ago

    I'm sure you have many nice Crapes in zone 7a subtropix. I shouldnt have added anything to this post. I need to travel about 6 hours south or east to see them looking as they should look. We get those Burgundy leafed oneds here, which I'm sure will never look like the ones in the south.

  • 9 years ago

    I most recently planted the dark leaved variety (think it's a Black Diamond). It is only in the ground for a bit over a year..., so not sure about it yet. Not sure why your choices are restricted to dark-leaved varieties as I don't think that they are necessarily cold-hardier. I have the collector bug bad...., whenever I see a different variety sold, I gotta buy it! The only ones I do not like are the super dwarf varieties.


  • 9 years ago

    Actually, it is the Black Diamond variety that is claiming to be zone 6a hardy around here and is or was in our Big Box stores in August-Oct. I stopped looking at the Big Box stores and nurseries in late Oct. In November

  • 9 years ago

    I have seen nothing special about the hardiness of the black diamond crepe myrtles. As far as I know, I think they are die-back perennials in your area.

  • 9 years ago

    Well....after looking at more pictures online and talking to my wife, I think we've determined a Natchez variety will be too much for our front yard. The height doesn't worry me so much....it's the wide canopy spread. I'm afraid it will make the ground around it too shaded, and will kill off the Bermuda grass. This happened near our pear tree, and since the ground is already sloping down, it has caused erosion issues. So now I'm steering more towards an upright growing Crape.....I have been looking at Tuscarora or Miami....I am also looking at Sarah's Favorite. It's so hard to tell what information to trust, because if I look at 10 different sites describing the different varieties of Crape Myrtles, none of them will be consistent as far as how tall/wide a tree will get. I had one site say Sarah's Favorite doesn't shed bark, but others say it does. I really had my heart set on a white flowering variety, but it seems like Natchez or Sarah's Favorite are my only choices for the size of tree I want.....I can't seem to find Byer's White anywhere online.

  • 9 years ago

    You should have no trouble growing grass under 'natchez'. They do not create dense shade like a pear (as long as you don't commit crepe murder).

  • 9 years ago

    Logan, have you actually seen a Black diamond crape myrtle after a couple years in zone 6? I'm gonna guess you haven't. I think you may be guessing at the results. I really don't want to plant a purple(leaved) Crape anyway, I may change my mind in the future, but, the green ones with red flowers would be nice, but, I know they will be pityful, little things in my zone 6 so unless I can build some kind of removable shelter to cover them with after trimming them down a good bit in height, I will not even try to keep them. I have pieces of my Harbor freight greenhouse, which never really stayed together. It's windy in my yard, extra clips and silicone could'nt hold that baby together : ( Maybe I can build a little Crape Shelter for a zone 6b-7a hardy Crape. But, I will need to prune it down in height, but, no Crape murder. I hope next summer isn't a hot one, then I can do some things outside, if not I hope we have an early spring in the 70's. In the heat of summer I am hiding out in the AC, I can't take the heat.

  • 9 years ago

    No, I haven't but I assume that they die back to the ground.

  • 9 years ago

    Okay Logan, I kinda thought you may have not actually seen them, I really shouldn't even be posting here now, because the green leaved and red flowered ones are surely zone 6b-7a, which I am not, but, I may eventually, think I can grow one hardy to 6b-7a in the future...........