Interesting article. I guess I always assumed that something organic would be grown in a traditional manner in the soil. It's surprising to me that isn't the case.

This question came up several years ago and the general consensus among the organic growers I correspond with was, then, hydroponics could not be organic. There is a question as well about Aquaculture. Some of those installations are closer to hydroponics using a soilless media.

kimmq is kimmsr

It's a turf war between the organic dirt farmers and the organic hydro growers.

There's a lot of money to be made in the organic niche, so getting hydroponics declared non-organic would make the dirt-based growers more competitive.

No more a turf war that the distinction between Genetic Modification and
Genetic Engineering.

People that do not grasp what organic gardening is all about simply will not understand.

kimmq is kimmsr

To supply the nutrients plants need to grow hydroponics must resort to inorganic (ie. synthetic) forms of those nutrients, materials not permitted in an organic growing method using soil.

My reasoning is not flawed and incorrect.

kimmq is kimmsr

Sclerid ... it's all about the ritual purity of the process, not the ability to grow things with a minimum of pesticides and herbicides.

Plants and soil co-evolved over hundreds of millions of years. Nobody is smart enough to know all of what plants need or how to provide it in waster. Such as those billions of microbes in the root zone provide for plant nutrition and health. Regards, Peter.

The term organic is so perverted today it's hard to trust without knowing the growing condition, but you can usually tell by the taste and how you feel afterward.

lazy_gardens,
Organic growing is about much more than ones ability to " grow things with a minimum of pesticides and herbicides." That is a small -part of what organic growing is about, a very small part. Organic growing is also about much more than "I am an organic grower because I don't use chemicals" but if one waters the plants they grow they do use chemicals because water is a chemical.

You really need to spend some time learning about organic growing.

kimmq is kimmsr

Kimmsr ... if it were REALLY about restoring and maintaining soil fertility, about concern for the earth and the environment, organic farmers would be embracing technologies that let them use no-till methods, and control pests without affecting the non-pest insects. They would be delighted at any way to increase productivity, minimize equipment on the fields, minimize field and transport losses and consumer waste.

But show them the Arctic apples (the varieties where the browning gene was removed, giving them the same mutation that "golden raisins" have) and they break out the garlic and the stakes. Show them the blight-resistant potatoes (varieties with the resistance gene moved from a wild potato species to productive domestic species) and they go for the torches and pitchforks.

You assume I have not studied "organic growing". You are wrong.

Plants don't really need soil at all....it can justifiably be considered a delivery system for the things that they do need: water, oxygen, and certain dissolved elements. Granted, most plants have evolved to perform best in a soil, but it is perfectly possible to grow healthy and healthful crops in an oxygenated nutrient solution or even suspended in a nurient mist.

There are soluble organic fertilizers, humic acids, etc.

Max, do you really think that you can determine how something is grown by how you feel afterwards? How does that work?

rhizo is right that plants do not need soil to grow, but since they did evolve growing in soil that is the best place for them to grow. I have tasted hydroponically grown foods and they are the most tasteless produce around.

lazy_gardens, your failure to grasp some of the discussion here about sustainability, no till, concern for the earth, pest control strategies tells me that you really do not understand what organic growing is all about.

Organic growing is about sustainability, making a low impact on the environment, using tools and techniques that are as sustainable as possible, reusing, recycling, repurposing, and much more.

Some people here may find this article of interest.

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/countercultural-agriculture-craig-bowron-fred-iutzi?trk=hp-feed-article-title-publish

kimmq is kimmsr

"Max, do you really think that you can determine how something is grown by how you feel afterwards? How does that work?"

That's not what I mean, but you sometimes you can use your gut feeling and if something is nutritious and grown well based on the look, taste and how you feel afterward. Even if you buy organic celery, it might taste like crap anyway because of being grown poorly. Lots of organic veggies sold at Wholefoods are not really good quality imo (hope they won't sue me for that).

Hydroponic vegetables that I grow don't taste as good as my soil grown ones despite all the claims. And I feel great eating kale from my backyard, which have low bitterness and slightly sweet. Bitter tasteless organic kale in a bag doesn't provide the same feeling.

And I feel great eating kale from my backyard, which have low bitterness
and slightly sweet. Bitter tasteless organic kale in a bag doesn't
provide the same feeling.

Confirmation bias.

Also, is the bagged kale bitter or tasteless? It can't be both.

Yes, thank you for your pedantic and pointing out I am more bias toward the foods that I grow on my own. Reading through your past comments tells me enough that I don't need to waste my time with you.

When you claim that its flavor and your emotional state after eating it somehow indicate that a plant has been grown organically, don't get upset when you're questioned about it, maxjohnson.

MaxJohnson ... have you seen the Dutch video about organic fast food?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Qa6QXBxxWw 

A good example of knowing where your food comes from not where the seller says it is from, lazy.

kimmq is kimmsr

I happen to grow in Coco with base syntheic fertilizer and organic additives.