Yes, get a home inspection if you get under contract. Consider a radon and termite inspection if your area has those issues (va normally will require a termite inspection paid for by seller).

Thanks Linda. We don't have termites in NW Montana as far as I know. But I will definitely get an inspection and have decided to order and pay for that prior to the lender ordering the appraisal. I have to pay for both of them and don't want to pay for an appraisal if the inspection shows something I (or the seller) don't/can't deal with.

Edit - just googled and apparently we do have termites in Montana. Have been born and raised here and have never heard of them being a problem. My dad used to build log homes and was a lumber jack my whole life and still never heard of them being a problem. Learn something new every day!

Any house you decide on you should get an inspection. And any contract should have a back out in case an inspection turns up something you don't want to deal with.

Make sure your agent gives you comps of SOLD properties, not just what people are asking to sell their homes for.

Ask your agent tomorrow her opinion as to why it has not sold in over 600 days.

Update*

I went and looked at the home today. It is a nice home. There were a few things we saw that needed fixing but in general looked to be in good repair. Apparently the house is not empty. There were people that had leased the home and had partially moved out. No one had been there for probably a few weeks (judging by the snow).

This may be why the home had been on the market for so long. My realtor said if someone and purchased the home and the family still had time on their lease, no one could move in. So probably most people were not interested.

She also said it is kind of in the upper level for what many people can afford in this area. But not the really high end. She said there are really high end homes on or closer to the lake (this is Flathead Lake at the foot of the Mission Mountains), or lower range homes. This is one of the mid priced and seems more difficult to sell.

I told her I want to think about it till after Christmas and then I will go to her office to draft an offer if I decide I am interested.

Thanks all and I will update with what she and I come up with as a good offer.

Here is the view out the front window.

With that view, I'd write an offer. Of course realize that if only houses on either extreme sell well, if the time comes where you need to sell, you too may have trouble selling it.

You never want to be the most expensive house in the neighborhood.

cpartist -

Yes the views are amazing! This is such a beautiful place that I live. And the way the home sits there is no way anyone could ever build in front of me to cover that view. I know that at some point I may sell but right now I am looking for a home that I will live in until I go into a nursing home. The job I have here is where I want to stay until I retire. So although I know it is important to pay attention to potential problems with eventual re-sale, I would not really be looking at that for many, many years.

Thanks!

That view is amazing. This is Montana? I imagine there isn't a large population there. I'd make an offer, one that would make you feel like you got it for a steal. They can always counter.

handthehammer-

Yes this is NW Montana and this is Flathead Lake (copy and paste from Wikipedia: is the largest natural freshwater lake west of the Mississippi in the lower 48 states, with over 200 square miles of water and 185 miles of shoreline). The foreground "mountains" is actually Wild Horse Island on the lake. The closer mountains are the Missions Mountains and the far, snow covered mountains is actually Glacier Natural Park.

Population in the town is less than 5000. The actual community has a larger population of folks that live rural, but still pretty small. Lots of ranchers and it is also on the Flathead Reservation.

Here are a few more pics:

side yard

that is so beautiful!

Massey,

The first rule of RE is to get the property under YOUR control. Others here have heard me preach this. Now that the renters are moving out, other buyers will be interested in the home too, just like you. There is probably no reason why you can not make up your mind now if you want to make the offer or not. You know as much about the place now as you will after the Holidays, correct? I see it all of the time... people that have a hard time making decisions and then get beat out on the home they really wanted. Do not let other people control your destiny by making an offer before you do, just because you need a few days to "think it over".

I was just typing much the same thing as NCrealestate. That is a beautiful view. That view out of the first window is just breathtaking. (I am continually amazed by how shockingly beautiful different parts of our country are...) If you like it, how are you going to feel if someone else puts an offer in and you lose it?! If you just found out this house has sold...how would you feel?

I agree with not getting too emotionally invested. But you sound like you've made up your mind you want to buy something, and you've been looking for awhile with nothing really jumping out at you. Now if you've found something....why wait?!

You are both correct. I am going to make an offer right away! Will update soon and thanks for all the advice!

The view is stunning!

Don't over pay, yet don't hang up on getting a steal, be fair is the best policy.

If the house is really worthwhile, if it is the one you love, even if you overpaid a little (than the "steal" price you have in mind) it will be averaged out to very insignificant amount after a few years.

My guess is there might be a few California retirees "cashing out" of a $1M+ house looking for something like this so agree you should make what you believe to be a fair offer with financing, appraisal, and inspection contingencies. Keep yourself in a position where you can easily walk away if the seller's price is unreasonable.

It is not normal to keep a house on the market while it is occupied by tenants on a lease. That's at least a yellow flag (caution) to me that the sellers may have unreasonable expectations about the value of the house. Study as many houses as you can on the internet (sales within the past 6 months, current unsold listings, time on market, photos). Worth driving by also. Your realtor will give you comparables but if you spend let's say 8 hours researching on the internet and driving by houses you'll feel more comfortable about the market.

my lives in whitefish 6 plus months of the year and they love it there i am very envious of you guys good luck with your purchase...

zippity1 -

Whitefish is beautiful too. I was born there. Whitefish Lake is nice too but not as big at Flathead.

Any update on the offer?

Gorgeous views! Let us know how it goes!!!

Stan Z brings in a great point. You could be dealing with an owner who has an unrealistic price point in mind. Many vacation destinations have situations like this, where a non-resident owner doesn't really need the money, puts a "make me move" sort of sales price on it, and lets it sit until or unless that price is met. This sale has a flag, though, since there have been renters in it. Maybe not quite the "hey, whatever" sale. But in vacation areas, not always abnormal.

Regardless of the seller's motivation though, you should be concerned with any property that's not getting regular attention from an owner. Maybe they have so much money they don't care. Maybe they have so little that they can't afford upkeep. Flathead Lake is no joke, climate-wise, so consider that possibility. If you choose to make an offer, make it completely continent upon stringent, complete inspections of all systems/infrastructure. Easy way to check- ask the seller's agent if there are maintenance records.

I'd also question your buyer's agent. This is a home that's been on the market for 600+ days. The history- what sort of price fluctuations has the house had? Has it ever been taken off the market, then put right back on- same, lower, or even higher price? Or has it truly just sat at the same price for nearly 2 years?

One last thing: This notion of "offending" a buyer has always cracked me up. I've never considered a seller's emotion in an offer, only what the house would be worth to me. They don't like it? They can reject it. If your offer is near the area comps for the neighborhood, you can hardly be responsible for the seller's reaction. Frankly, if you decide to low-ball it, based on its worth to you, the same applies. You're not asking for a friendship, just offering a business proposition.

We can already see in one of the photos that there is a lot of chipping paint on the deck. That will need to be repainted to close a VA loan, but its an indicator that maybe there are other items in the house that have been neglected.

All -

I don't yet know if my offer has been accepted. The "trustee" asked for a couple of days to respond. Perhaps she has to discuss with the owners, maybe there is more than one owner (like siblings or divorced couple, etc.), not sure. Trying to be patient.

We (my agent and I) discussed my comfort with what I want to spend on a house. The mortgage broker "pre-approved" my loan at 350K. Just because they say that is what I can afford does not mean I'm comfortable with the monthly mortgage he estimated that would be. I kind of want to keep my purchase at or below 300K.

After this discussion my agent suggested 296K. She also suggested we ask for 6K in closing costs. She said, "I can't imagine they will accept this but this is a starting place." She had spoken to the trustee/agent and they were already looking at renting it again and the trustee said she had a few calls. In just a bit of research in the area the rent is probably 2K - 2500/mo for this type of home. Maybe the sellers would prefer to rent, who knows? My agent suggested a 30 day close so they don't feel like they are losing money on rent. I also said that I can be flexible with closing if they want more time.

I am very comfortable with my buyer's agent. She has many years of experience and specifically with VA home loans. She is helpful but not pushy and seems very honest.

I also have talked to some home inspectors. Apparently in Montana inspectors don't have to be licensed so one can easily get someone that "hangs out a shingle" to be one. So I did some research, looked at reviews and spoke to a few. The one I have chosen recommends the buyer and buyer's agent show up for the end and he will go through everything that he found, discuss, answer questions and then send me a written report as well. If I get under contract I will have the inspection prior to the VA appraisal.

My agent explained that the inspection may uncover things that can easily be rectified prior to sale, may uncover things that the seller will simply offer to reduce the price for, and may show things that are really more cosmetic and not worth fighting over. But as mentioned above about peeling paint, there may be things that the VA appraiser will identify that would prevent the sale from going fwd unless rectified.

I do really like the house but I am trying to be a critical thinker, reasonable and think with my head and not my heart. It will likely be just me and my 10 year old son living here and I want it to be as safe, sound and as livable as possible. I learned my lesson 10 years ago when I bought the home I am in now. Don't want to make that mistake again!

Will update as soon as there is something to share.

Thanks all for the input!

Just got a return call from my buyer's agent. They agreed to 6K in closing but countered at 311K. My mortgage lender estimated my closing costs at about 9K and then of course I need to pay for the inspection and appraisal.

I could counter but not sure what to ask. If the home is advertised at 315K and they are saying 311K that means they are only going down by 4K. I realize there is no "standard" amount that homes are expected to reduce from asking price. Do they usually expect a counter offer?

I feel comfortable with a 300K mortgage as far as my monthly payments. Maybe I can counter back at 305K and I pay 50% of my closing? Not sure but I have to call her back in about an hour to make a decision.

Any advice (if anyone sees this within the hour) would be appreciated!

Thanks!

Counter at $300,000 since this is as high as you can go. If you really need help with closing costs, add those in too. If you do not need the help, you can always back those out and stay at $300,000. Good luck.

Did your agent ever figure out the fair market value of the place?

Thanks, I was kind of thinking that too, 300K and some part of the closing (only because I believe there is a small part that the VA doesn't "allow" me to pay???). She said she was gong to do another quick market analysis to see if it is glaringly over listed but she feels it would appraise at the asking price.

I don't want to get in over my head and love the home I am in but struggle every month with it. I am trying to be as realistic as I can and I do think 300K (and me paying some part of closing) is what I need to do.

One thought- the seller may realize that there might be some "things to fix" before a VA loan can close and or close inspection. So I wonder if they're trying to plan for that contingency, in not straying to far from their asking price.

See what your agent says, what the new analysis shows. You and the seller don't seem to be too far apart in the price, and that view isn't something you find every day. But you have to be comfortable. As long as the contract is contingent upon inspections (and of course, your VA lender's appraisal will play a part) I say go for it, within agent's advice.

Good luck and check back.

EDIT: One last thing- check in with your lender, perhaps, to see how that bit of price bump affects your mortgage. Depending on how many years it's amortized over, it might not be very much.

So she checked again at prices and it is within a reasonable price and she said even probably lower. I believe the home is worth it, I just need to be comfortable. I countered with 304K and same closing. We shall see. As much as I like the home I just don't want to over extend myself.

If they accept I will try to be very reasonable about things I want "fixed" such as only the things that would be a deal breaker or what VA demands.

Again thanks all!

I think the $304 counter is quite fair and my guess is that they'll come back asking to split the difference, which would put you at $307,500. Honestly that amount difference won't be too much.

Just got a call from my agent. She had asked them to let us know by this evening. The agent called her and requested to have the weekend to discuss and decide. I said of course. I don't know if that is a good sign or not???

Will update when I get more info.

Ugh! I hate when a seller does this. WTH is there to decide that it would take days and days? Especially since you are so close together. All it does for the buyer is to increase their chances of someone else coming into the picture.

Did your agent ask what the hold up is?

No big deal, on a weekend hold up, over holidays.

Stay strong, though, on your offer. It's fair. Take care on "figuring out" where these people are.

Either they don't need to sell or they really want to. Same as a buyer's proposition. Stay strong!

Update!

I am under contract! I got the home for 304K with seller paying 4K in closing costs. I just stayed firm with what I felt like I could afford. I did not say anything negative about the home like it was not worth it or there must be something wrong because it was on the market so long, I simply stated what I felt I could afford. Even though I love the home and the views are beautiful, I need to be able to afford it and feed my family. I was willing to look for something else if we could not come together.

I just ordered the inspection that will happen next week. Originally the date for closing was the end of January so that may have to be extended. Then there still needs to be the VA inspection.

Thanks for all the support!

Woo-hoo! Keep us posted. It might be worth it, to us other Houzzers, to hear how inspections and VA works out. I hope you share.

BIG CONGRATS. That view is worth it, and hey- the interior is pretty cool, too!!

902juanita -

I will try to update and explain how things went. I know coming to these forums can be so helpful for us all. It never takes the place of a good buyer's agent or loan officer, but can certainly give us a place to start for questions. If I had done this 10 years ago the home I am in now would not have worked out the way it did.

Will keep everyone updated.

Congrats Massey. I hope the inspection process goes smoothly.

Congrats Massey. Hope it is all smooth sailing for you now.

Update –

Had the inspection on 1/10.
The lender had ordered the VA appraisal and that gentleman was there on
the same day. A surprise as I always hear about how long these can take. They both told me they
thought the house was a nice one. I did
get the inspection report back and there were a few things but only 3 things
that were really concerning to me. I
also had my FIL who is a retired contractor there with me.

The 3 things were the boiler for the heating system needed
serviced as there was a leak; the thermostat had been removed from the master
bedroom, so no heat in there; and the breaker to the Jacuzzi tub was switched
off for some unknown reason. The
inspector flipped it on and yet the Jacuzzi jets did not come on. There were some more things but nothing big,
like window screens missing, etc.

I have not yet received the VA appraisal so that may find some
things that must be addressed. They have 10 days to get it done.

I did find out a bit more about the house. There was a guy there doing some work and
moving out some of the stuff owned by the renter. He told me the original owner died and her
daughter is the realtor acting as “agent as trustee”. He also said the “renter” is actually the
realtor’s son. They still have a LOT of
stuff there.

We are supposed to close on 1/31 but my buyer’s agent thinks
that it may be pushed out.

Will update more as I find out more.

Don't ignore systemic issues, obviously. But wow- you got a great one. Congrats, and PM me if you're ever going to put it up as a vacation rental!

902juanita -

No, not going to ignore anything. Much of what the inspector found were things like the garage door opener probably needed adjusting, no GFI outlets in the mud room/laundry room, missing window screens, windows tight to open (it was about 8 degrees and LOTS of snow), door locks loose (I plan to change all the locks anyway, as no telling how many people have keys to the place), etc. He got on the roof and the two sky lights were perfect and sound, no evidence of leaks, LOTS of insulation (by his standards) in the attic and other things he raved about. I feel the seller made concessions in the price so I don't want to be one of those picky people that whine about nails holes in the walls where pictures go. I will not ignore big things, but if I ask for every little things (like window screens all replaced) I could lose the contract. I want a fair deal, something I can live with and don't want the seller to walk away 'cuz I'm being a jerk. I hope all goes well, will update as things progress.

Lender may require gfci outlets to be installed as a condition of funding.

Sounds like a really great deal - not having strangers / renters has likely helped, and they felt a sense of pride in the home. So happy for you - and I respect your attitude about 1) sticking to your guns and not putting yourself in a place that causes financial stress and 2) being a "fair" buyer and working with the seller and the lender and focusing on things that are truly important.

That's good karma.

So our closing date was to be Jan 31. It is the seller holding it up as there were some boards on the deck that required replacement according to the VA appraiser. The boiler has been serviced and the other things the inspector identified has been done. The outside deck took loner because we have so much snow and it has been cold. I have read in so many places that VA loans take forever but this has not. And especially if you take into consideration that we were doing this over the holidays.

I believe that often when it takes a long time perhaps the players have little experience with VA loans (my lender and buyer's agent have extensive experience with them) or the buyer is not prompt with required documents. I had lots of things I had to give them along with numerous letters of explanation. For example my 2 adult daughters are on my bank accounts and they needed a letter to explain. I had to explain why I do not pay for child care for my 10 year old son. Those types of things. Whenever they sent me a request I did it immediately. And for my part even before I called the lender the first time, I had my DD214, all my tax docs, all my accounts. my current home statements and so on.

So we think the closing will be put off a few days, my buyer's agent is going to ask for Friday as I don't work on Fridays and it will be easier for me. This whole process has been easier than I thought it would be, after reading how VA loans can be so hard. I did talk to the VA appraiser and he said that they are usually more busy in the spring and summer so him getting the appraisal done quickly (I was not competing for his time by purchasing in the dead of winter)) certainly helped.

Will update.

Thanks!

You're going to be fine- just work through it. For me? Sorry that this is holding up a bit, but honestly? As a US taxpayer, I and others (you too!) help guarantee these loans. Don't want the hassle? Go a different route. But honestly- you'll bee good.

Update

I wanted to update everyone and leave a kind of “How it went for me” for anyone in the future that may search these threads for VA home loans.

I closed on Friday February 3rd.

From the beginning it went like this:

I contacted an organization that specializes in VA loans (Veteran’s United). I did the application and sent in all the required paperwork. It didn’t take very long for them to give me a quick estimate of what loan amount I would be approved for. Then it took them probably another week and a half to officially give me an amount that I was pre-approved before. In that time they also got me in touch with a realtor that they endorsed and that has experience with VA loans.

One thing I did not do that I have seen encouragement to do, was shop around for a better interest rate. I didn’t do it for a couple of reasons. First, it takes actually a lot of time and effort to jump through the hoops, fill out the paperwork and give them all the information that they need. And of course they do a credit check on you and each time they have a credit check run it can affect your credit. I also believe that for the most part, most of the lenders are probably pretty close in the interest rate that they will offer. It is possible that had I really shopped around, spent a lot of time and effort in it, I may have found a lender that may have given me a slightly better interest straight. However my time and effort is very valuable to me and I felt like that was something that I did not want to do.

The realtor sent me several listings for homes, this was after I gave her an idea of what I was looking for. She did a pretty good job as I also was looking myself in the area. She did not send me houses that were in my price range that clearly probably would’ve had a hard time passing the VA appraisal process.

Found the house I was interested in. I really thought long and hard about how much I could afford every month. When I spoke to my lender he was able to give me an idea about what my monthly mortgage payment would be depending on where in my price range I fell. For instance I was approved for up to 350K. I wanted to keep my monthly mortgage below 2K a month. He was able to tell me that if I got a house for 300K, I would keep my mortgage around 2K a month. His estimates were pretty close.

I went and looked at the home and asked a lot of questions and decided that this is the home that I wanted. It was originally listed at 340K and about two years ago. It had dropped and was currently 315K. My buyer's agent suggested that I offered 296K and the seller pay 6K in closing costs. I gave a check for 1K in earnest money to my buyer’s agent. She then deposited this into an escrow account once we were under contract. Counter offer came back at 311K with the seller paying 6K in closing. I thought long and hard about it, I wanted the house but I also knew what my personal limits were. So we countered back at 304K with the seller paying 6K in closing. They came back and offered 304K with the seller paying 4K in closing. So essentially I got it for 300K which was what my personal limit was.

I chose to have a home inspection aside from the VA appraisal. I’m really glad I did. It cost me about $600. He was able to come out on my schedule and he specifically encourages the home buyer to be present for the last 15-30 minutes. At that time he gave me a general verbal about what he found. He also took me around the house and showed me where there were concerns and recommendations. I had contacted a couple of home inspectors and the other ones said they didn’t mind if I was around but this was the only one that truly encouraged me to show up and wanted to talk with me and show me what he found. I was very happy with him.

The VA appraiser actually showed up on the same day that the home inspection was happening. The appraisal was ordered on a Thursday and he presented to the home the following Tuesday. I realize often this is a big sore spot with VA loans. Often the appraisal takes time and then the write up takes time as well. He also was very polite and talked to me about a few things. His write up was very thorough and he appraised the home at 316K.

The inspector found three significantly concerning items and the appraiser found three items as well. All of them were pretty easy fixes with the exception of the boiler system. The inspector found a leak. The homeowner reassured us that there is no leak it must just be a coincidence that there were a few drops of water down there. She had it looked at and realized that there was a significant leak and had to have a certified boiler inspector come out. He replaced a few things on it and said it would be fine. Three days later it was leaking all over the place again. He came out again and had to replace a significant part of the system. I bring this up because in reality is unlikely that the VA appraiser would have found this. It was the inspector that found this. It has been explained to me that an inspector looks for structural conditions on the home. The VA appraiser looks for value and any blatant safety issues. All in all I am very glad that I decided to have an inspector and not rely solely on the VA appraiser finding anything that is concerning.

The inspection cost me $600; the VA appraisal cost me $800. Apparently this is a regional thing and certain areas are much more expensive to have the VA appraisal done. The VA appraiser then came out after the homeowner completed all the requested fixes and re-inspected. I had to have that money up front, it can’t be rolled in to the loan.

It is important to note that there were several little things that the appraiser and the inspector found. For instance the garage door opener needed adjusted; there weren’t screens for all the windows; no GFI outlets in the mudroom, etc. I had decided that since the seller had come down a decent amount on the price that I was going to be easy to work with and not request a fix for every little thing. I wanted to keep my eyes on the prize and only request truly deal breaker problems to be rectified.

I had to notify the lender who I wanted for homeowner’s insurance. I contacted them and they sent an estimate and a binder to the lender

We had originally given a closing date of January 31. This was actually just a month away from our initial offer (and several of those days were “taken away” by the holidays). I was very surprised when I got that “clear to close” the Friday before the Tuesday close date. It was actually the seller that needed more time. We ended up closing in February 3, just a few days later. I had to bring 563.00 in the form of a cashier's check for “cash to close”. Not very much I thought.

I have heard so many horror stories about how long VA loans take and the problems that arise. Although I’ve only done one VA home and I’m certainly not an expert, I think there were a few reasons why mine went off without a hitch.

I went with a lender that does nothing except VA loans. I could’ve gone down to my local Wells Fargo Bank or some other place and they would’ve been able to do a VA loan. However VA loans are very specialized and the organization that I went with (I’m sure there are many that are just as good) specializes in VA loans. They knew exactly what was needed from me to make it through the underwriting process.

I went with a buyer’s agent that is well versed in VA loans. She has closed 100s of VA loans as a buyer’s agent. Additionally she has purchased homes as a VA purchaser. She knew which homes were more likely to appraise and pass VA inspection; she knew approximately how long things would take and she was very responsive to my needs and concerns.

I purchased a fairly new home that was in pretty good shape.

I had good credit and a good job with a decent income.

I purchased in the dead of winter. This made things difficult in that everything was covered by couple of feet of snow and some of the outside parts of the yard and even part of the roof was not that visible. However I think that is one reason that the appraiser was able to come out and take care of me so rapidly. The lender had told me that the summer prior there was such a backup that it was taking weeks and weeks for VA appraiser to even show up to new homes to complete the appraisal process.

I did things requested by the lender immediately. I’ve read so many times that the loan is held up because the purchaser has to get this form or old tax returns or some other piece of paper sent to the lender. I was very quick in response to every request of me.

And lastly but not least I believe this is a home God wanted me in.

So that is my experience at the VA home loan process. It really went very fast and it was pretty painless as far as I could tell.

Thanks for all the support!

Here are a few photographs for you to enjoy.

Those views are amazing! What a beautiful home. I'm glad things worked out so well.

Congratulations! Those views......I can see why you selected this house. I also LOVE that you have a single chair looking out at those views. :)

It sounds like you did everything perfectly! Congratulations on getting exactly what you wanted!

A beautiful house and views. Congratulations and thank you for updating us.

My gosh, with those views every single window looks like a framed painting. You will so enjoy this home, I’m really happy it all worked out for you. Thanks for the updates, and details on the VA Loan process. I completely echo your strong endorsement of the independent home inspection. Each time I’ve had one done they’ve caught one or more significant issues that “paid for” the home inspection costs several times over. Congratulations!

Thank you for updating us with the happy ending.