location with a bit more specificity .... plz ...

soil type? .. 6 feet away from tiles is not great ...

and do understand.. nothing will stop growing at some magical height .... and therein lies the rub.. since a trees root mass.. can be twice as big as what you see above ground ... but more in a pancake form ...

dont know z8 plants well enough to help more directly ...

ken

Thanks. In terms of location - do you mean the city? If so, Portland. The area gets light most of the day. The soil...I'm not very good yet with gardening so I don't know how to describe. The top 2 inches or so are grass/dirt, and then underneath it's mostly clay.

If you have discounted those three, relatively small, trees I can't think of anything else other than shrubs. Do Citrus grow where you are? Would bay laurel be acceptable? No fruit but it is an edible.

btw although Arbutus fruit are edible they are not particularly palatable.

"I've taken a look at Arbutus unedo, loquat, feijoa, but seems like all of those grow slowly and/or have invasive roots."

This isn't true...on the first front, nothing magically (whether yielding edible fruits or not) grows to "desirable hedge height x", quickly, and then stops. Especially in your case, asking for 15 feet. If you only wanted 5-6' something like Elaeagnus X ebbingei is probably pretty fast in the PNW. (Clumping bamboos do stop at a certain height, but they aren't that quick, and they are really expensive to use for a hedge) Arbutus unedo grows at a perfectly acceptable clip in the PNW, gardengal just posted to that effect. Secondly, anything that gets to a certain size is going to need a root system to support that size, which will only be "invasive" into already compromised drainage or sewer piping. And again, certainly any plant 15' high is going to need a wide, strong root system to stay stable even in the generally mild storms you get in the PNW. So if you want to avoid that, you pretty much have to avoid planting anything. There might be a slight exemption to that with fibrous rooted rhododendrons & azaleas. But even in that case, I have my doubts that no rhododendron root system has even "invaded" a broken tile drain. It might just end up taking it a long longer. There are 50 year old azaleas on my property, and I've seen that some of their roots are quite thick.

If you know exactly where the line is, you can always install a root barrier of some kind.

You might want to look here for ideas.

One Green World is ... located in Portland, Oregon. We have ... a huge selection of fruiting trees and shrubs .... the experts at O.G.W. are available for questions and advice

https://onegreenworld.com

Thanks for your responses. Bay laurel is not something I'd considered, but will do some research. And good to know Arbutus is not that tasty for humans.

David - thanks for the great info. Can you please explain what you mean by "which will only be "invasive" into already compromised drainage or sewer piping." Why is it only invasive to already compromised drainage? I've always wondered - houses are surrounded by pipes, drains, utilities, etc. so how do people have any trees on their properties at all without fear of roots destroying them? As you can see, I'm very new to planting everything :-) Also, I was not familiar with "root barriers" so I will look into that. Lastly, any advice on specific trees that may fit the bill? I'm also not opposed to it being taller than 15 ft! I wouldn't mind a large tree at all.

If the house foundation is structurally intact and any underground plumbing is as well (and most houses built within the last 10-15 years will have PVC or similar exterior piping). then there is not very much concern about the roots of most plants - trees and shrubs included - invading or creating damage. There are some exceptions and plant roots can be very opportunistic wrt to cracks, etc. (that is what is meant by "compromised"), but for the most part if your foundation and plumbing is in good shape, then you should be OK. And no worries about any other utilities except to be aware of them when you dig.

For something of size, I'd probably go with a loquat. Not always a reliable fruiter up here in the Puget Sound area - might be best in a somewhat sheltered location with some reflected heat - but there have been reports here on GW about established fruiting loquats both here and in the Portland area. And a pretty handsome tree anyway.

An olive tree is a possibility as well and far more likely to actually produce with Portland's hotter-than-Seattle summers.

Bit surprised to see Embothrium of all people recommending Luma apiculata, but they are achingly gorgeous when mature.

I slightly lean to gardengal's recommendation of loquat. Very attractive, too, and somewhat better known for the delectation of its fruits. You could always plant both!

You guys are amazing. A few responses:

To all - I should clarify about our french drain. This is a drain we are building currently, so we'll know exactly what the materials are. It will be a rigid pvc pipe surrounded by gravel and rock, and wrapped in landscape fabric. How resistant do you think this would be to root penetration? Again, I think the farthest we could possible make the french drain from the trees is about 6 feet. I'm wondering - why shouldn't we be concerned about utilities? Like sewage/downspout discharge, gas line, etc.? Are those too strong to be broken by roots?

Embothrium- the Orange bark Myrtle - what a great idea. It's a Chilean tree that I'm super familiar with, since I lived in Chile for a long time and my husband is Chilean. I'm a little concerned though about its "modest" growth - would love to have a tree that can be depended on to grow well, as we need it for a privacy screen!

Gardengirl - thanks for the advice. I'm very ignorant about olive trees - can you do anything yourself to eat the olives? Or do they needs to be processed at a factory to be edible? I guess instead of asking I can just google it myself :-)

"Or do they needs to be processed at a factory to be edible?"

They would need factory processing to be shelf stable. But no, to just cure them in the typical way, one uses lye and salt and I think optionally, certain iron compounds. Many people in rural California probably do it with their personal trees to this day, and surely there are instructions on the internet.

Unlike the Luma the Loquat has a broad habit that might not fit the space. And during those occasional years when it manages to fruit well in this area (its winter flowers are subject to frost injury in the North) there can be quantities of them that get ahead of any harvesting efforts, end up covering the ground. As is very often seen here with Orchard Apple and Plum trees - which also attract rodents and wasps when generating largely or completely unattended fruit bonanzas. Since Loquat is a large fruited Rose Family tree as well I wonder if it offers similar attractiveness to nuisance animals. Plus it seems if you grew one there long enough if it might start dumping unwanted fruit into the neighbor's yard. Such considerations will be involved if you choose and plant any kind of tree that offers orchard style fruit production, where large numbers of fruits of some size are generated.

Fallen fruits of olive trees are said to make an incredible mess. So this is another one that will probably have to be kept on top of at harvest time to not become obnoxious.

There's a difference between inground plumbing (water lines, sewer, drain pipes etc.) and utilities (gas line, electricity, phone/cable). The plumbing is piping and often jointed piping and subject to cracking and breakage, especially with older lead or masonry and terra cotta pipes and the offering of a water/moisture source. Utilities tend to just be wires or cables or with gas, copper tubing, and not subject to breakage - unless you intentionally or accidentally cut through them. Roots have no effect on them one way or the other except when when you need to excavate or reroute the utilities for some reason and the plants/roots are in the way.

Very easy to cure olives at home - you just brine them. Making oil from the olives might be a bit trickier but a single tree is unlikely to produce enough to worry about re: oil.

It will be a rigid pvc pipe

==>> not much of a drain then ...

how about you tell us what you are draining .... if just a downspout.. who cares if roots get in there ....

if your gas lines has holes roots can get in.. you have much bigger problems than the roots ... and most utilitis are fully encapsulated .. so roots are not an issue ...

old time sewers were clay tiles with oakum packed in.. and decades later.. the oakum is gone.. and roots are filling the sewer ... like this

https://www.google.com/search?q=root+clogged+pipes&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiHgNjxyPzRAhWo7YMKHVriBzcQ_AUICigD&biw=936&bih=739

so lets step back and figure out what the french drain does .... too many answers above sound like they are thinking sewer lines ...

if your drain is solid.. chemically fused pipe.. with no holes.. first.. its not a french drain.. but also.. roots are simply not an issue ....

its winter.. the forums are a bit dead ... you the first live one we've hooked in weeks .. lol... we'll get you there .. if you keep up ... lol

ken

"if your gas lines has holes roots can get in.. you have much bigger problems than the roots"

Ken you can always be relied on for a chuckle or two.

Hahaha, glad I decided to contribute now in the winter.
Was hoping for a response or two, but this is even better.

My french drain will be like this. Basically, all of our neighbor's property drains on our property (she doesn't clean her gutters or have drainage), so the french drain is to protect our crawlspace and foundation (I should start a whole separate thread on that topic! ).

I'm a little concerned though about its "modest" growth

If you read the article the bigger ones in Seattle were about 15 ft. tall. That is comparatively modest (what I typed) in relation to Ireland where some are as much as 65 ft.

Probably you won't be able to have a tree of much size only 6 ft. from a perforated pipe without there being a likelihood of it rooting into it. Or if nothing else being in the way if you ever have to get at the drain later for some reason.

There are lots of problems that CAN happen but usually don't. Tree roots seek water. An old leaky water pipe will attract them, and they can get in the cracks. They aren't normally attracted by electrical wiring, and modern intact pipes have no leaks...so no cracks for them to get in, and no way for them to "know" there is water inside.

However, I thought the point of a French Drain was to have holes in it.

I'm rather fond of the Bay Laurel idea. California Bay Laurel (Umbellularia californica) is a good native tree

A good native tree

The suggested plant was probably Laurus nobilis. Umbellularia eventually makes a large teardrop shaped specimen with a thick trunk even as far north as Portland and Seattle - unless a shrubby variant is chosen. For instance measurements taken 2004-5 of specific examples in the latter City include heights as great as 86 ft. on one at the Arboretum and a trunk 11 ft. 1 in. around on another (73 ft. tall) that was planted ca. 1906 at the University Heights Center.

I'm surprised that Luma apiculata is hardy up there. It's rated as a zone 9 plant and in my 9b gets frost burn in particularly cold winters. San Francisco and Mendocino are loaded with them, but otherwise you don't see them around here much.

Luma should be winter hardy to 15F, which would include zone 8. There are several commercial growers of this plant in the PNW. One grower suggests a somewhat sheltered aspect and adds: "don't try this if you garden at 1000' in the foothills of the Olympics or Cascades for example."

I grew Luma in my Shoreline garden and currently growing the related Lophomyrtus 'Katheryn' on slightly milder Bainbridge Island.

Just to clarify, Embo is right, by bay laurel I did mean Laurus nobilis. But only because that's the one I am familiar with. I have no experience of Umbellularia californica. Is it edible? I was trying to think of culinary trees since the OP asked about fruit trees.

edlincoln - yup, the French Drain will have holes in it. Did you see the link I posted?

I didn't mean to send you all on a wild goose chase, but I went out to my yard again and now that I'm looking at how high my neighbor's deck is, I'm realizing maybe a 15-20ft tree is what I need. I had been thinking 10-15, but that will barely be taller than the fence. Are the trees you recommended still good options? I'm also open to it maybe being a nut tree.

Also, how far from the french drain would you say I should put this tree? As we've discussed, the french drain does have holes, so the tree will probably be able to "feel it." And would it be helpful to post a picture of where it will go? A picture's worth more than 1000 words :-)

Thanks for your help, everyone!

The article I linked to above quotes a summation of Luma hardiness in UK and also reports that in Seattle colder winters kill leaves and twigs. From this and what I have observed myself it appears that in those local areas where it has managed to persist and reach some size it falls into the group of kinds that may burn during sharp conditions but do not lose the main branches or trunk. (but see also "Details of local experience..." below). So borderline in USDA 8, with USDA 9 being where there would be no recurring damage of much significance - such designations pivot on what a source is defining as "Hardy to" specifically.

If you're not in a frost pocket or cold district it is probably just about perfect for what you want to do.

Unless orchard style production is desired. Or you want something that will shoot up as fast as bamboo.

Details of local experience with variations in habit and hardiness between plants of this species from differing wild provenances can be found described on pp. 169-7 of Sean Hogan's 2008 Timber Press book Trees for All Seasons, where he also states that

"For one's own garden a better small tree could hardly be found"

Hogan's Cistus Nursery is on Sauvie Island if you want to go out there and talk to him about this tree - or any other Broadleaved Evergreens for Temperate Climates. Cistus also has a web site.

Your link shows the correct way to install a French drain. Landscape cloth can be used to put the gravel and pipe in as shown and landscape cloth can and should be used to wrap the pipe in. I've done it for years on jobs I did.

Thanks for the help, everyone. What if I put an evergreen climbing vine there? Would that maybe be a better option to avoid the root issue and to get something that is fast-growing? I guess I wouldn't get fruit out of it, but trying to weigh the best option here....

Yes if you erect a screening trellis and then put a fast growing evergreen climber like Clematis armandii on it then you could get quicker relief than with waiting 10-15 or more years for a tree to size up. For one thing as soon as the trellis was completed you would have the benefit of it.

And maybe the installation doesn't really need to be 20 ft. tall to produce an acceptable level of amelioration - often having something in place turns out to be enough, when contrasted with a completely open aspect.

Also an evergreen climber with edible fruit may be possible there. For instance

China Blue Vine

https://onegreenworld.com/product-category/vines/china-blue-vine/

I wouldn't expect this to produce individual bursts of growth of several feet in length like the clematis does but actually the clematis can often be too much when planted in a defined space that isn't large. And the trellis would presumably be doing a lot of the screening with the climber being used just to add increased density (and other features).

Yup, you might be right. Do you think Clematis would keep me covered in terms of: having pretty dense foliage, evergreen, fast growing, and suited for Portland, OR? My quick googling seems to say yes, but I prefer to hear it from the experts on here :-)

If you pick Clematis armandii or Clematis cirrhosa, they form a pretty fast and dense evergreen screen with the right kind of trellising. And they will be perfectly at home in a Portland garden :-)

FWIW, C. cirrhosa is supposed to be a winter bloomer, however mine would offer a smattering of flowers pretty much year round. But never the same very profuse and heavy blooming of armandii.

Although sometimes knocked back by sharper winters here Evergreen Clematis is a standard item in the P.N.W. The main problem many people seem to have when planting it on architectural features is keeping up with its rapid growth, preventing it from bunching up at the top. Otherwise what I notice is its large leaf texture can be a bit much in a comparatively small area. The second one mentioned in the immediately preceding post produces fine textured foliage. Named selections of Clematis x cartmannii and/or one or two similar hybrids have been on the market here in recent years also. These produce a similar fine leaf texture but with a profuse, open-faced anemone-like bloom more in the manner of C. armandii. So far examples of these last I have seen out in the general landscape have been small. But all are new.

Any of the cartmanii hybrids seem to have issues in this climate and tend to be not very long lived, likely due to either of the parent plants being not reliably hardy in this climate. They are also smaller than the other two by a significant factor and don't produce anywhere near the density of foliage - kind of sparse and spindly and not very appealing out of their bloom season.

Yes, to date all I've seen here is examples of these up to about 6 ft. fence height or somewhat more. And nothing having made a curtain of growth. Since all plantings in this area have been recent I have not drawn any conclusions.

However the 2014 Hillier does depict this hybrid as small growing and tender also. Like the yellow Monterey cypresses that have become ubiquitous lately local outlets present it as both an indoor and outdoor plant.

So, sounds like for all intents and purposes, Clematis armandii is probably my best bet. This area gets full sun, so I hope it would do well. I also looked up Clematis 'Jackmanii' and it looks lovely and beautiful. Any thoughts on that variety? I'm sort of excited about the idea of bright colors, other than white! Ville de Lyon also looks lovely.

Jackmanii is a very popular and vigorous clematis but not evergreen. And requires annual hard pruning to look its best, which pretty much defeats the point of a privacy screen :-)

Either the armandii or the cirrhosa would work well for your purposes. Armandii is pretty much a fixture in gardens in my area and somewhat commonplace. There is a pinkish variety, 'Appleblossom', that is a little more unique. Personally, I'd seek out one of the multiple cirrhosa cultivars for something a bit different and less common.

In your area, I would not hesitate to seek out Joy Creek Nursery, located bout 20 miles northwest of Portland. They are one of the premier sources for clematis on the west coast and offer and grow a huge selection - far more than any other retail nursery in the area. Great display gardens.

Technically the seeds of California Bay Laurel are edible, although they aren't grown commercially for this purpose. They are more something hippy nature nuts might eat. Mostly an "Earth Friendly" tree grown in California because it is pretty, native, and doesn't need much water.

I understand some varieties of pomegranate and passion fruit are evergreen in some climates. Passion fruit is a vine. Pomegranate is a small tree...might be borderline in your area.

Mostly an "Earth Friendly" tree grown in California

A.L. Jacobson states in the 2006 edition of his book Trees of Seattle that it is

Common and reseeds weedily here

The main forested park in my town north of Seattle has been invaded by it, probably from a nearby lawn planting that is/was apparent from a local street. Multiple individuals, a few of them tall enough to have been present for some years are visible in the upper part of the park property, where a presumably native population of Evergreen Huckleberry also occurs.

Sunset says to plant the Myrtle a certain minimum distance from susceptible kinds because it is a carrier for Sudden Oak Death. In those parts of its native area where it grows intermingled with Tan Oak many of those are now blighted or even dead while the Umbellularia often, if not usually looks normal.

You all have been super helpful, thanks so much! And I got in touch with Joy Creek Nursery, and they gave me some great advice as well. I don't mean to hijack my own thread, but in a conversation yesterday, a colleague suggested that are some varieties of camellias that are evergreen, grow fast, and can be up to 20ft tall. This seems tempting to me because we wouldn't have to buy/build a trellis. Any feedback or thoughts on this? Thanks!

"grow fast"

grow fast from the perspective of a seasoned horticulturalist...probably not the average person. My fastest camellia might manage 20 inches a year, in a good spot, in summer wet climate w/o fertilization. Fertilization might help but I don't do that for various reasons. Most are not that fast...sasanquas are faster. They are faster than rhododendrons!

A camellia taking decades to reach 20 ft. wouldn't be unusual in this region. Same with pieris, rhododendrons and other frequently planted, slow growing evergreen shrubs.