Need help with shower window in exterior wall

9 years ago

last modified: 9 years ago

I'm working on a bathroom renovation in my mother's house. I'll be footing the bill, but it is still her house and she has final say on things. I posted another thread a few years ago trying to come up with a plan on how to deal with laundry room and bathroom layouts that don't work and have come up with a satisfactory floorplan and now I'm working on the finer details.

Before I go further, I should mention that the house is out in the woods outside of a small town. We do not have any showrooms or reliable contractors nearby. The nearest big box store is an hour away. We are pretty much in a "No Man's Land" for services. Most people can't even find the house and we've had people tell us we are "too far" to come out. Or sometimes people say they are going to come out and then never show up and don't return calls.

My mother wants a tub/shower combo and the only place she was happy with the tub going was on an exterior wall with a window. The window will be in the center of the shower's back wall. Since it is less than 60" from the floor, it needs to be made of either tempered glass or something that is unlikely to break (like glass or acrylic blocks).

She rejected the idea of just covering the window. And she wants something that can open to let in cool air or let moisture out. Since she absolutely loathes tile, there won't be any tiling and we are planning to go with a modular direct-to-stud caulkless* tub & surround by Sterling. (*It doesn't need caulk on it's seams, but it will need caulk around the edges on the finished wall). The particular surround is designed to allow a cutout for a window.

When I measured the window it appears to be approximately 22.75"W x 34.75"H. I've since learned that I was not doing the measurements correctly and the rough-in size of the window is approximately 24"W x 36"H. The house was built in the 40s (or possibly earlier) so the materials are very old.

I think the window is made of steel and it doesn't open and close properly. Here is a picture of it from the inside.

DIY Home Improvement, Remodeling & Repair Forum - View Single Post -Glass Block · More Info

Sorry for all of the cobwebs, I really need to clean the place up. I got way behind on cleaning while recovering from a car accident and some other health issues.

Here is a closer look at the mechanism for the window going up

DIY Home Improvement, Remodeling & Repair Forum - View Single Post -Glass Block · More Info

I wasn't able to see my phone's screen when I tried to take photos from the outside so I ended up with no usable pictures, but I got a photo of an adjacent window that is identical.

DIY Home Improvement, Remodeling & Repair Forum - View Single Post -Glass Block · More Info

Back on the inside, here is a view of the jamb (I think it is called the jamb) when I pulled away the cheap flimsy paneling.

DIY Home Improvement, Remodeling & Repair Forum - View Single Post -Glass Block · More Info

I've been trying to come up with the best solution. I want to replace the wood parts that touch the window with PVC or vinyl. My first thought would be to get a custom vinyl window with tempered glass, but there are no places in my area that make windows or sell tempered glass. Of the only two glass places I know of, one really sucks (can't measure and totally botch windows) and the other one only has one employee who interacts with customers and she has no idea what they sell. She mostly just does inspection stickers for cars. I've heard that tempered glass can be very expensive as well. I've also heard that tempered glass can still shatter and I want something that is not likely to break of someone bumps it with an elbow.

So, that brings me to glass block windows. I like the look of them and I wish I could find a slim design one that fits my rough opening, but I don't know if I can. Most of the ones I found online at big box stores were wider than they were tall so the hopper vent (small window that can open in the glass blocks) wouldn't work.

I did find a Redi2Set prefab window that is the right height but is a few inches too narrow. It's about $188 (not including the 10% sales tax). UPDATE: I found one of the correct dimensions. Model V2436DC for $183.43. But the image and link here are for the wrong-sized one. Correct one is here

REDI2SET Wavy Glass Pattern Frameless Replacement Glass Block Window (Rough Open · More Info

It has a hopper vent in a good spot but it is frameless and requires mortar to set it in place. I've heard that it's not good to attempt using mortar unless you have experience with it and I have zero experience. I'm attempting to find out from the manufacturer if it would be possible for me to use PVC perimeter channels and Redi2Bond adhesive instead. I have yet to hear back from them.

Another option that *might* end up being cheaper or around the same price is to build my own window via the Provantage system. It requires Provantage horizontal spacers, Provantage vertical spacers, a framing perimeter channel, and Seves brand 4" thick glass blocks. It says it won't work with other blocks and the spacers are designed to fit with 8" tall blocks. I could then get a Seves hopper vent to put on top of the 2nd row of blocks.

15-3/4 in. x 7-3/4 in. Convertible Universal Hopper Vent in White for 3 in. or 4 · More Info

I was thinking I could do three 8x8 blocks on the bottom two rows then a hopper vent between two 4x8 blocks with the top row being three 8x8 blocks. One of the benefits of that system is that the spacers + Redi2Bond adhesive are supposed to make it very sturdy. The drawbacks are that I would have to make it myself, the blocks aren't exactly 8" or 4" but slightly smaller and from the sizing chart, it might end up a couple of inches too short (like only 32" high). From what I understand, the bottom row goes directly on to the perimeter channel with a 1/4" bead of silicone to hold it in place.

Now, there is a frameless system where I could use anchors and horizontal spacers (usually put underneath each row) along with expansion strips. If I could find the right size anchors and strips, I wonder if I could use that to put the pre-made window in place. Or maybe I could see if that would give me a little bit of added height in the frame. The largest drawback is that it said I need "Acrylic polymer modified cement based grout" and when I tried searching for that on Lowes and HomeDepot I found nada. One of the reasons my mother and I don't like tile is because of grout. It deteriorates and stains. Also, I'm not sure about the ease of install and I would probably have to mix it myself unless they sell some pre-mixed in a tube or something. So, I am hoping there is some alternative to that.

There also appears to be a Redi2Set kit with slimmer channels, but I did not see corresponding spacers and anchors of the appropriate size, so I'm not sure how that would work.

Additionally, I found a website advertising Protect All windows. From the description it sounds like they are identical to the Provantage system but they are pre-made to the customer's specifications. Like Provantage, it uses spacers and silicone (only 1/8" bead instead of 1/4" bead) and I think they put it in a frame for customers for easy installation. Like the Provantage system, it also may end up not being the right size exactly. Also like Provantage, the block width/height options are 12x12, 8x8, 8x6, 8x4, 6x6, and 4x4. Unlike the Provantage system, there is more variety in style and thickness. Blocks can be 4", 3", or 2" thick. Unlike Provantage, they don't appear to sell kits for DIYers. But, they do offer to install the windows IF someone lives within their installation area (but I live outside of it). I also saw no pricing information about the Protect All system which is a red flag-- indicates to me that the prices are too high for them to advertise because customers would probably just decide to pass right away.

So, a summary of my current options:

Get a vinyl window that is the right size and try to find some way to have tempered glass put in or find a place that will custom make one with tempered glass. Pros: easier than making a window. Cons: not sure on price, questionable availability, & tempered glass can still shatter.
Buy a pre-made glass block window with hopper. Pros: already assembled, price is not insane, and it is slimmer than Provantage system window. Cons: requires mortar & wall ties, not sure on construction, & might have to use mortar.
Use Provantage or Redi2Set system to build a window. Pros: can make it on the spot and not have to worry about shipping (except for individual blocks), might be less expensive than pre-fab, and I get to feel good for making it. Cons: I might screw it up, it might not fit properly, it will be very heavy so I might have trouble lifting it, and I can't seem to find the right product for the grout.
Buy ProtectAll window. Pros: They make it for me to my specifications, frame is supposed to make it easy to install, and I don't need to grout. Cons: No idea on price, not sure if they even can make it the right size, website makes it difficult to figure out how to order & have the hopper vent inside.

So, what do you guys think?

Has anyone here used any of the glass block building systems?

Any suggestions?

Any alternatives to that grout?

Thanks in advance.

Featured Answer

Judy Mishkin

9 years ago

a new operable transom, the width of your opening, placed just in the top of the opening, is what you need.

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Comments (17)

PRO
Patricia Colwell Consulting
9 years ago
Too much info , you lost me. I think you need a new window made for a shower install and I have no idea why you would need safety glass but if you do then get it . A metal window in a wet situation will not work .
apple_pie_order
9 years ago
What level are your DIY skills? How old is the house?
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zannej
Original Author
9 years ago
last modified: 9 years ago
Patricia, it is required by building code in my area. Part of the window is below 60" and it will be inside the shower enclosure-- therefore it must be made of safety glass.

apple_pie_order, I've got some DIY and carpentry experience-- I'm not a master DIYer but I'm not a complete newb to it. I guess I'm somewhat low medium range. However, I will have help from people with better DIY skills. I may have help from people who were professional contractors, but I have to work out the details on that. The house was built in the 30s or 40s. I know that the later additions to the house had the date of 1-22-47 marked on a joist.

A friend of mine on another site has been helping me research and I've found that I can custom order a vinyl window with safety glass. I saw a company selling a nice double-paned one with argon-- but I don't know if they could replace the glass on that. In some places they let people put a safety film on their glass to make it count as safety glass-- but my local building codes specifically say "tempered".

I'm debating whether I should just go for a single-hung or if I should look around more and try to find an awning style window. After getting the run-around on the phone, I found out from Home Depot that I could get an American Craftsman brand vinyl window (single hung) with tempered glass for around $186 (not counting the sales tax).
zannej
Original Author
9 years ago
I guess I should do a TL:DR version of the original post:
- My building code requires tempered glass for regular windows
- Approximate rough-in size of existing window is 24"x36"
- The window will be inside of a Sterling direct-to-stud shower surround (and will extend above the top).
- I need a window of the approximate size that is either glass/acrylic block or tempered glass
- I can't change the footprint of the window on the exterior as I need to keep the siding and trim intact (although it can be temporarily removed or pulled out of the way).
- I'm trying to decide which window would be the best one to get and try to keep it under or around $200 if possible.
- I may have to install the window myself (or with the aid of a friend) since I live in a remote area
Does that make it more clear?
zannej
Original Author
9 years ago
I stopped by Home Depot earlier today, but the window guy had just cut his finger and it bled quite a bit. I had to wait until he was done taking care of that (which I completely understand). I only had 2 hours of sleep so I don't think I was overly clear about what I needed and I think he was a bit frazzled. He came up with a window suggestion: Plygem 500 series single-hung. Pros: can be customized to have grids (for $15), is supposedly easy to install, vinyl, argon, double glazed, can come with tempered glass for $9 to $10 extra. Cons: Screen is not included. Base price: $91. Screen costs nearly $6 (not too bad). Grids cost $15.

Plain with tempered glass & screen $106.
Ply Gem 23.5 in. x 35.5 in. Single Hung Vinyl Window - White-510 - The Home Depo · More Info

With grids it would be $121
Ply Gem 23.5 in. x 35.5 in. Single Hung Vinyl Window - White-510 - The Home Depo · More Info

Online, there is a Tafco window that is the right size and can be used for new construction or remodeling. It is around $89, but I haven't heard back from HD to find out if I can custom order it with tempered glass. Pros: lightweight, easy to install, low price, comes with screen. Cons: Latches are reportedly flimsy (often arriving broken/detached and do not stay attached). Not sure if it can have tempered glass.
TAFCO WINDOWS 23.5 in. x 35.5 in. Single Hung Vinyl Window - White-SH2436-I - Th · More Info
Another option I saw online is

JELD-WEN 23.5 in. x 35.5 in. V-2500 Series Single Hung Vinyl Window. Pros: I've heard it is a good brand, comes with a screen, argon/double glazed. Cons: higher price & not sure if it can come with tempered glass. Base price $135.76
JELD-WEN 23.5 in. x 35.5 in. V-2500 Series Single Hung Vinyl Window - White - TH · More Info

It can also come with grids for $143.96
JELD-WEN 23.5 in. x 35.5 in. V-2500 Series Single Hung Vinyl Window with Grids - · More Info

I'm sort of leaning toward the plain Plygem and screen. One concern I have is that the sample windows in the store appeared to have some sort of felt or fuzzy stuff in the tracks of the window to aid the sliding up and down. I'm concerned that might be an issue if the window is inside of a shower. If it can soak up water, it could start to smell, develop mildew/mold, and possibly affect the operation of the window.

I will have to examine the windows more carefully in the store next time I'm in the area.
zannej
Original Author
9 years ago
I ruled out the JeldWen because they said you can't spray it with a hose from the outside to clean it. I'm not talking pressure spraying, I'm talking regular hose washing. They said it would let water come in. TAFCO seems too flimsy. So, once I get the project rolling, I'll do the PlyGem unless something better comes along. I will also check with Lowes to see what options they have and if they have any price-matching and whether or not they will let military discount apply to custom orders. The discount would almost negate the sales tax.
zannej
Original Author
7 years ago
I'm still deciding on a window since I haven't had time to work on the reno project. I was injured in a car wreck (other driver ran a red light) and I've been dealing with the aftermath & health issues.

I think there is still one at HD that I could get custom ordered with the tempered glass.
apple_pie_order
7 years ago
Health comes first. Hope you recover smoothly. Same car wreck as in 2017 or is this a new one?

Since this is a big project that you and fellow DIYers will be taking on, perhaps some leisurely armchair shopping may keep you entertained while working on your recovery.
zannej
Original Author
7 years ago
Thanks.

Same car wreck because it did a number on my internal organs. I've also had to deal with pets who got cancer and in March this year I fell down some stairs & sprained my left ankle while tearing a tendon in my right ankle so I was literally off my feet for awhile. Then in October a drunk driver tried to pass me on the left while I was making a left turn and ran into the front side of my truck. It took a few months to get that fixed (due to some back & forth an chain jerking from the insurance company). Then the repair guy didn't put the nut back on my tie rod so it started to come off while I was driving, but I got it to the dealership before my wheel could fall off & got it fixed. There's still something wrong with the wiring for the lights so I will have to take it back in. But for now it functions & I can haul stuff in it. Hauled a stove and some carpet for a friend. As an aside, that friend nearly died in a wreck from a repair person not putting his tie rod back on right- it came loose & his truck flipped. So I was very very lucky that I was able to get it fixed in time.

I've been doing a lot of studying on how to do things and finding good products for the reno. I think I've narrowed down a plumbing plan. I am studying the wiring aspect so I will know what I need (fortunately the aforementioned friend is a certified electrician so he can help me in that department) I'm debating whether or not to hire someone to put the windows in. I figure if I'm going to change out the bathroom window, I should change out the laundry room window too (although that one doesn't need to be tempered) so they match. I want to make sure I get them sealed up nicely to prevent any water from coming in from the rain outside (I get a LOT of rain here) but also keep water from getting in to the walls from the shower. I will probably have to mess with sloping the sill on the inside to make the water flow toward the shower. I also intend to have a small vinyl curtain over that window.
zannej
Original Author
7 years ago
last modified: 7 years ago
I forgot to mention that PlyGem no longer seemed to be available so I found Reliabilt at Lowes. I'm waiting to hear back from them on whether or not it can be custom ordered with tempered glass.
ReliaBilt 3100 Vinyl Replacement White Exterior Single Hung Window (Rough Openin · More Info

This one is designed specifically for replacement so it might be easier to put in than a new construction window.

Two more options (for replacement)
ReliaBilt 3050 Vinyl Replacement White Exterior Single Hung Window (Rough Openin · More Info

ReliaBilt 3050 Vinyl Replacement White Exterior Single Hung Window (Rough Openin · More Info
Mike Kennedy
6 years ago
Why not just go with Seves Glass Block?
zannej thanked Mike Kennedy
zannej
Original Author
5 years ago
@Mike Kennedy because it would require a larger opening, is more expensive, & requires use of mortar to install. Mortar has to be mixed and laid just right & I have no experience with it. There are no licensed contractors left alive in my area that will come out to my house (I'm in the woods).

As an update, I'm still looking for the right window but need to get a wall knocked out & area cleaned up & purchase flashing to install the new window. The back door is a larger priority as it now has a huge gaping hole and raccoons are getting in to ransack the place.

The availability of the windows keeps changing & we will have to go in to the store to custom order stuff. We've been avoiding going to stores as much as possible bc people around here don't take Covid seriously & it's spreading rampantly.
Mike Kennedy
5 years ago
That makes sense. Well I hope you find a suitable option!
zannej thanked Mike Kennedy
zannej
Original Author
5 years ago
So, after going through 2 hurricanes (had to evacuate and house was invaded by raccoons who wrecked the place) and a winter storm (busted all the hot water lines) I've been trying to repair damages. We didn't flood thankfully, but those raccoons opened every single cabinet, knocked over all the trash, dragged trash back in from outside, dragged cooking utensils and food outside (still can't find a lot of stuff) and it looked like a tornado hit inside. Back door is busted open and all of the contractors are booked up. No hot water because stores were out of plumbing supplies when we went and finally had time to get a friend help me to try to run it (because my fat ass won't fit through some of the tight spots under the house to run the pex) a rattlesnake decided that we were bothering it & told us to go away. We don't want to go under there with it still there or it possibly being there. Had someone come out to look for it to capture it but no luck because it hid.

Every time I pick a window and try to go to the store to order it, it goes out of stock or they jack up the price way higher than it should be. Like, a window that was $100 on the website was $250 if I ordered it in the store. I may have to order over the phone. Also need to see if there are any professional installers-- but first have to clean up the mess. Looking at either Plygem, Jeld-Wen, or Reliabilt for the windows.

I do know the features I want is that it be energy star rated for southern zone, double pane, argon, single opening. I want to use pvc board for the framing of the window and the sill. Will need to pull back the vinyl siding and house wrap a bit to do some flashing under the sill and around the wood framing and make sure there is a proper z flashing above the window.

All of the windows on the house need to be replaced but we may have to do it one or two at a time. I wish I could get all of the smaller windows done first. We have 4 windows that are the same size. Kitchen window is slightly larger but is broken (won't stay open). Then we have to figure out what to do with the huge windows on other rooms. And the sliding glass door (which is broken).
apple_pie_order
5 years ago
In order, it sounds like your priorities are: rattlesnake, hot water piping, broken door(s), broken window(s). What geographic area are you in, roughly? Texas has been hard hit by weather.

By the way, are you in this house "come hell or high water" or would you consider moving at some point to a place that's already fixed up?
zannej
Original Author
last year
last modified: last year
@apple_pie_order For some reason I am just now seeing your post. It's a come hell or high water situation. Fortunately we're on high ground so high water doesn't reach us. Right next door to TX. I did end up buying a window but it wasn't tempered glass and the more I thought about it I realized that since my brother will be using this shower I don't want him putting an elbow through the window. So I took @Mike Kennedy's advice and got a glass block window. There was one on sale that should fit. I intend to put it in from the inside rather than outside and just slide it in. When working on replacing the back door we discovered that the exterior walls are 2x4s with tongue and groove boards (not plywood) covered by some sort of asbestos looking siding that resembles roof shingles in a way. House wrap and vinyl siding were put over that. If the new window is partly obscured by the outside, I won't care.

My new plan is to use moninal 1x4 PVC boards to build a frame-- the window I got is frameless. I bought the tracks that are used to build glass block windows. I saw a Youtube video where a guy built a frame from PVC boards and the tracks. Then he put the frameless glass block window in the tracks and completed the frame. He then installed it as a framed window. The window was on sale when I got it and its currently sitting down in the workshop with most of the other stuff. If I have any of the 1x4 PVC trim left over I may use it to make a small window sill/shelf inside the shower, but it depends on how everything fits. I need to upload the pictures after I do some fixes to the sketchup file. I built the setup in Sketchup but haven't edited to fix where the window sits.

This is the window I got though:
23.25 in. x 34.75 in. x 3.125 in. Frameless Wave Pattern Vented Glass Block Wind · More Info

zannej's bathroom & laundry room ideas · More Info

zannej's bathroom & laundry room ideas · More Info

zannej's bathroom & laundry room ideas · More Info

I had to build that window block by block and mess with the opacity. Had to draw the hopper window in it from scratch. Its not perfect but I am pleased with how it turned out. I especially like that you can see into the bathroom a little from the outside. Sketchup is cool. LOL. The wall depth isn't correct though. I thought it was thicker than it is but it has layers outside of the wall frame. I'll have to adjust the window and may cover part of the J-trim with some kind of outside window trim.