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richardcruse

No permit needed; must follow code???

I live in a part of Alabama (rural Alabama, Coosa County) where they do NOT require a permit for residential construction (building a house, adding on, etc.) This is to say there is no permit required to build a house, add onto a house, electrical, or plumbing work. They DO require a permit for septic system installation but that is another story.

My neighbors are adding onto their house and to me (a layman) it appears that their contractor is not following what I consider ‘code’.

They are using 1) 4” concrete foundation (poured footing, blocks mortared on top, void filled with uncompressed sand, and 4” of concrete poured on top), 2) 1x4 sill plates (most j-bolts have been cut and NO j-bolts have washers and nuts on them to screw the sill plates down—they are cut even with the top of the plate with no washers/nuts), 3) due to the clear-cutting of their lot (which was full of trees—until February) and the massive hole that they dug (maybe 40’ wide, by 75’ long, and 20-25’ deep) they are now channeling a huge amount of water onto our property, and 4) burning all the waste (wood, tar paper, plastic trash, etc.). Separately I have gotten 2 flat tires (one which required a $250 tire replacement because it was in the sidewall) from nails which I have traced to boxes of nails in their addition.

They did TRY (dug hole, put septic tank in it, bought but did not dig trenches for field lines) to install a septic system without telling the county but the inspector came on-site while checking up on a project down the road in our neighborhood. The inspector put an end to that and the contractor removed the big, black, plastic septic tank and took it away on his truck.

I used to be worried about the water/runoff but after seeing the construction quality I am more concerned with 1) property values and 2) damage to our house FROM their house during a storm, etc.

This is a weekend house for my neighbor and she has only been onsite maybe 5 times, for an hour or so each time, in the last 4 months. I imagine that this is because she is older (and I don’t think she WANTS to know what is going on) but the end result is, besides us, the contractor has had zero oversight.

As a next-door neighbor do I have any recourse? What can I do? Do they have to follow ANY building codes?

Thanks to everyone!

Comments (14)

  • 9 years ago

    The building code is National, so technically yes. And the national code defines the minimum requirements and local codes (in some areas, California for example) may be more stringent.

    I don't know how there would be any enforcement in your area since, without a permit, there is no recording of what construction is taking place. When I put a bathroom in my basement, as a 1-2 family dwelling, a non professional could do all the work but it all had to be inspected. It took over a year but the inspector would periodically call, and there were specific things that needed a final inspection. This isn't particularly stringent in the scheme of things but there was still supervision at particular points. But without a permit or a Record that a project like this was taking place, how would an inspector know?

    I guess you could call and report them, but it's likely the builder and homeowner would know they were reported and it would not do much benefit to your relationship with your neighbor.

  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    rweigand,

    I am bookmarking this comment for future reference and use.You say it succinctly and well. Because for years I have been dealing with people particularly on Kitchen and Bath, and with regard to stair railings and things where they insist, -- Insist --that if I can find no such code in my local jurisdiction, that I am not looking hard enough or that my locale must be incredibly lax and people must be being maimed or killed on a daily basis because of X Y or Z, and that the International Residential Code is the bare minimum and will only get More Stringent locally. I am all for safety, but it gets a bit tedious to post a picture of something just for the esthetic value of it (that could be 100 years old at that) and then have people say "not code compliant" as if whetever their local codes (some of which are ridiculously stringent) are in force everywhere, and if they're not they should be.

  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    That is sort of what I thought.

    I do believe that my locality is unfortunately ridiculously lax. If you let people do anything they want a) the majority of contractors will do the cheapest thing regardless--they rarely have return 'new house' business anyway and b) customers/homeowners have no idea of what to expect and therefore what their contractors need to be held to.

    While existing, especially old, construction is often not up to code either because of the quality of the original work or because code has changed over time I do expect new/addon construction to be up to current code. It is frustrating to find out that one's own locale hasn't thought enough of this to protect homeowners from unscrupulous 'builders' by instituting reasonable standards and enforcing them.

    If I had not worked in the business I would be as clueless as my neighbor has chosen to be.

    One question: are the things that I mention within the code in you all's areas?

    Thanks for the info!

  • PRO
    9 years ago

    Welcome to the downside of freedom. I would expect that the property runoff would be covered by some regulations. There may be stormwater regulations which apply to the county or to the entire state where local restrictions don't apply.

    When it comes to storm damage to your house from their property, that's why you pay homeowner's insurance. In a claim, your insurance company has the resources to pursue payment from the responsible party if they feel that the recovery is worth the effort.

    In my locality, all of those items are regulated although enforcement is a different matter than regulation. I own a property which receives stormwater from a city street reconstruction project that changed the drainage patterns. The city is quick to tell me that I can't dump stormwater onto them but doesn't want to discuss how their reengineering project is damaging my property.

  • 9 years ago

    As for the concrete and the plate sizes, no, that would not be considered code in my location.

  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Use video with date stamp or your phone to document the water coming onto your property. If it's causing damage or creating a new 'channel' for runoff that can develop into damage if it continues you'll need a record. Getting that info to the homeowner puts her on notice of the nuisance. If you've got an idea that would fix things share that too. Getting a dialogue going can create a neighborly relationship to help solve the problem. You're there full-time and she isn't. Some kind of check on progress could be useful.

  • 9 years ago

    Definitely a good idea (we started from the beginning because it was very obvious and the amount of water is HUGE). As for the homeowner, my wife talked to her but she just stared back--blank. She does not get it at all and says that her husband has used this contractor before and she trusts him--and apparently not me. I have a letter drawn up, point by point, but don't know when to send it. Relationship with the neighbor? Pretty much ruined anyway as anyone who disagrees is not a friend to her. Thanks again.

  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    In 2012, Alabama adopted a statewide mandatory Code for private houses, essentially IRC 2009, with some alterations regarding insulation, windows and fire sprinklers.

    But with the Coosa County population the lowest since 1840 (not a typo), I guess building permits are the least of officials' concerns.

    Altering the natural drainage of their property and directing torrents of water towards your lot gives you grounds for civil action. But In a jurisdiction so lax it doesn't require building permits, I wouldn't expect much help from the county.

    Homeowner Private thanked worthy
  • 9 years ago

    Wow, a lot of good info. Lowest pop since 1840...I guess that is why they closed the county Health Department...thank you!

  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    She may not hear you in person. . . but sending her a cd or email if possible of the water problem video can be helpful. Giving her time to view and digest it at her own speed will help. Maybe hold off on the full letter for her but send a simple explanation along. I'd send the video and full letter to the contractor also. He has a stake in his rep and full documentation of shortfalls can be powerful.

  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    Talk to your state building commission. If their building is not structurally fit to live in they may be interested in looking at it for their safety.

    http://www.bc.alabama.gov/

    My state has similar laws for small towns or rural counties that cannot afford to hire their own inspectors. Inspections typically are not done by the state, but it is supposed to be to code. Some things inspections are required statewide, typically new breaker boxes and meters. Varies by city what needs inspecting, usually depends if the town has inspectors on hand. This usually ends up being larger cities in rural states.

    In urban settings you typically have inspectors available. It is different in rural america. The real motivation to build things correctly is liability. If there is a failure and damage to property or person the builder is liable. Lawsuits, etc.

    Legally, you only have control of what happens on your property, so if they grade their property different you will have to manage it. Actually, you may benefit from the extra water. I know Alabama isnt particularly rainy. You should have adequate green zone between your house and their property to manage any rainwater considering the rural setting.

  • 9 years ago

    Altering the pre-existing terrain "to channel a huge amount of water", as the OP says, onto her property is an actionable civil wrong. (In some jurisdictions, such as the one I live in, it is also a statutory infraction.)

    But the practical problem is that to get satisfaction, you need to spend money and deal with lawyers and courts.

    Infinitely better in the meantime to try and work out something in a neighbourly way while trying to deal with the excessive water flow onto your property.


  • 11 months ago
    last modified: 11 months ago

    This is an 8 yr old post, so why would you even want to bring it up.