I usually see this plant iDd as Crassula capitella 'Red Pagoda'.

If I could make 3 suggestions:).

1. A new pot with drainage holes. Glass is not good for succulents:(. Unfortunately the rocks at the bottom do not help with drainage if there are no holes for the water to drain out of:).

2. Add 50% of either perlite or pumice to your mix.

3. Acclimate this guy to more sun. You're missing out on the beautiful colors this plant can become. Start off with full morning sun for a week or two. Up the sun exposure little by little from there:). If you just rush and push this plant into all day sun, it will burn.

Your Crassula is showing signs of etiolation. The lanky growth and spacing in between the leaves.

But these are your plants so do what you want:). Check out the Google images of this plant when getting more sun. The colors are stunning and the plant is nice and compact:).

Thanks so much for the reply and suggestions Kara! This is my second summer collecting succulents, and I'm still learning the ropes, so your advice is appreciated.

I actually just purchased this succulent from a nearby greenhouse in upstate NY (and just planted it), so it's good to know that it needs sun. I love the look of it - the leaves remind me of some sort of infinitely looped mathematical pattern. Based on a google image search, I can see that you’re right that the plant can/should be compact & very colorful.

I assume you suggest adding perlite because it needs a neutral growing medium and/or water, and that will retain the water better. But correct me if I'm wrong or if there are other reasons. As for sunlight, I have very large, south-west facing windows (no other indoor or outdoor options), but can place it on or near the windowsill. The plants all get a few hours of direct sunlight there in the late afternoon/early evening (not sure if that's equivalent to morning sun, or what).

Also, I’m thinking of wrapping some bonsai wire around the elongated base stem so it stands up straight. Crazy idea? I’ve used bonsai wire with my baby jade (pictured), which has worked great, but this red pagoda has less of a ‘trunk’.

as to the pot - believe it or not, that glass container actually does have some drainage because of how it is put together (there are cracks where the pieces of glass meet, and water leaks out). But I see your point, and will think about transferring it to a pot with better designed drainage holes.

Thanks again!

Bonsai wire is fine to use, I do it sometimes, just watch closely for growth to make the wire too tight. Nice plants!

Both plants are etiolated - I don't think you should be using wire on them at this point. I should say I never attempted bonsai...But using wire to hold up stems is not the solution. Plant need to be exposed to proper light so it will start growing strong and compact. Etiolated plants grow trunks/stems that are weak and skinny and plant doesn't have color it should.

Adding perlite is to improve drainage - not to retain water or making potting mix neutral. Perlite has quite low water holding capacity (about 28%). What kind of 'soil' are you using?

Hi Rina - the plant pictured in my first post is the same plant (from front and back). I assume by "both" you're not referring to the baby jade from my second post, which I would think is not eliolated... In any case, I just purchased the Red Pagoda and do plan to give it lots of sun.

Thanks for the info about perlite; I did not know that about drainage. I am currently using "Miracle-Gro Cactus Palm & Citrus Potting Mix". I also have a big bag of perlite, though, so I could add some to that mix.

I have one of those plants! It looks a bit like yours since mine is also etiolated. I bought it from the nursery that way. However, the new growth is very compact and pleasing. I clearly need to get it into brighter sun because the red in the leaves is nothing like the Google image search results.

ruttiger123

Thanks for the info about perlite; I did not know that about drainage. I am currently using "Miracle-Gro Cactus Palm & Citrus Potting Mix". I also have a big bag of perlite, though, so I could add some to that mix.

Wear a mask when using it. Perlite has nasty dust that you don't want to breath in.

ruttiger

Yes, perlite should be added to the C&S soil. I do not use it myself, but ppl that do will mix 50 or 60% of sifted perlite to improve drainage.

I do not want to sound negative, but IMO both jade and Crassula are etiolated. See the spacing between the leaves of jade? And all new growth seems to be too long = since it is stretching looking for more light (I am not the only one that think so...)

Cintax - Thanks for the tip about perlite dust. And it's interesting that these red pagodas may have a tendency to become etiolated.

Rina - thanks for the info on soil. It's informative to hear that the spacing of leaves come from the plant looking for light. That's helpful. I'll read up more on etiolation.

It surprises me that the Baby Jade may be etiolated since I have giant 14-foot windows (I live in a converted factory/loft) and in most places the plants get at least 4 or 5 hours of direct sunlight - probably 6 or 7 in the summer, and lots of indirect light too. It's evening direct-sun as the windows are south-west facing, not sure if that's relevant. Anyway I have one of those 3-band grow bulbs (this one, to be precise) and could supplement the light with that....

That sounds like great windows. Lots of intensity gets lost thru the windows, and they may be coated for UV protection and so on. What may seems to be plenty of light, may not be quite enough for the plants. Only way to be sure is to measure...

It also depends on where you live (btw, it would be great if you add your general location and/or growing zone next to your name!)

I also use supplemental lights in the winter, but during summer I keep plants outdoors and they get unobstructed sunlight. I am not familiar with the LED lights.

Perlite should be sifted, or rinsed thru the strainer to get rid of smallest particles and dust. Yes, dust is nasty...

Thanks again. Just updated my name - it should show as 5b upstate NY.

Also - I will sift the perlite, and will consider placing some of the plants next to an open window during direct-sun hours (as pictured, the windows on the bottom row have a screen, so I can crack them a bit).

Rina has a point - washing Perlite is a great idea. You should still wear a mask when handling the dry Perlite before washing it though. You can buy a strainer from the dollar store to use on garden stuff.

Your window looks great, I found the etiolation stopped when I put them outside. My succulents are on the eastern side of the house so they get bright morning sun (0630 - 1100) and bright shade after that. I think I will have to put them in the back yard if I want them to get that red. The backyard has full sun from 0800 to 1700 easily.

Sometimes, I use big bucket, fill with water and dump quite a bit of perlite to it; swish and drain over a big sieve I made (it is approx. 20x30" or so). Or set the sieve on the ground, dump perlite in it and hose it (could be done in a bathtub...). If I need just a little, I use kitchen strainer from dollar store. I do same with grit, since there is some dust there too.

interesting. i always get river rocks from the dollar store so will look for a strainer there too.

thanks for the suggestions about perlite. i have one or two more succulents to ID so will be posting again soon!

Something else to consider -- I realized, belatedly, that a screen blocks a significant amount of sunlight, too. I started some cuttings inside my screened in pool cage. When I moved them 20 feet to an area outside of the screen, they burned. I didn't acclimate them because I thought the light was the same. So 'maybe' yours are not getting as much light as you think. Just a thought.

I agree that they look etiolated. The leaves on your jade should be much closer together. Like this -

And a closer look at the leaf formation on a plant that has been in full sun in the winter. (why it's red.)

Your plants(s) don't look unhealthy, but they can look better. =)

You've gotten lots of great advice. To clarify regarding bonsai wire, or similar. As Rina commented, it's not the answer to etoliation issues, but you can use it if you don't want to cut your long stems for any reason, or if you are going to grow etoliated plants, for whatever reason,

you may "need" it. I don't use it for those reasons, I use it because I love my long stems, and to grow a particular style of plant it is useful. Here is an example of a plant where I have used wire at various stages, due to long stems requiring support. It's in a tall narrow pot, about 16 inches tall, 6"across. Often when transplanting I"ll use wire to stabilize branches during, or see that it needs it after due to shape of new pot or shifted center of gravity.

Typically advice for eotliated plants is to cut, re-root and allow old root to pup or branch out. This is good advice of course, because etoliated growth won't "tighten up" once placed in better light. But using wire to support/direct weak leggy growth won't stop the plant from growing healthy compact rosettes, leaves or branching/budding/pupping out once placed in better light. I can be interesting to manipulate plants this way, much like bonsai or tree pruning to grow a certain shape or style. Just thoughts from one who loves to micro manage her plants:-)

this is such a wonderful forum! truly informative. thanks again everyone.

crenda - that jade is beautiful and I see exactly what you all mean about the leaves being closer together, as well as how the colors should pop with adequate sun. I agree that my plants aren’t unhealthy per se, but could benefit from more sun.

here's what I can say (in conclusion?):

I notice that many of my succulents (including the baby jade), to varying degrees, tend to "bend" toward the sunlight, which I had assumed was normal (and I would simply turn them around every few days so they would get sunshine evenly, and they'd bend back) - but from what I read on-line it sounds like even a slight bending is a symptom of etiolation. it sounds like it is partly an aesthetic thing, but if it gets bad, the plant will be weak.

lisa - that is a very neat plant. as you point out, long stems may be a preference - succulents can perhaps become sinewy and interesting. by the way, it sounds like you remove the bonsai wire after transplanting - won't the stems just bend back whatever way they want? Maybe this is different outdoors. I suppose what I mean is, if you use the wire to stabilize, I’d imagine you’d have to leave the wire on more or less permanently (but correct me if I’m off-base).

Anyway – a similar example to yours, lisa, and of how my succulents bend: I have (what I think is) a "ghost" plant which grew unbelievably fast, produced little shoots/babies from its stem, all of which grew very tall, and comically toward the sun. the stem would bend and twist in different directions on a regular basis (especially if I moved it only slightly); I anchored it with bonsai wire too, and it looked kind of neat, despite how out of control it was. (I enclose a photo with it from when I first planted it, and then what it looked like more recently). (in the first photo, you can see I actually bonsaied a pine jade, which I thought looked very cool - like a "tree of life"). (btw, I know the glass pots w/ no drainage are bad; I’m weaning everything off of them this summer). I assume this ghost is also etiolated...

more recent ghost (the pine jade next to it was moved); note the three off-shoots coming from it):

so it seems like etiolation is probably unavoidable (and to bonsai is to treat the symptom, not the cause). as to cuttings: though I’ve propagated from leaves, every time I have tried to do so from a cutting, the cutting has died. one of the shoots/babies fell off that big ghost plant the other day (by the sheer force its own weight!); I’m waiting for it to callous but after searching online am unsure of what soil mixture to use, or how to prevent cuttings from dying. 75% perlite and 25% of the miracle gro cactus soil? all perlite? direct sun? rooting hormone?

I can't think of many solutions to my etiolation problem (if it is a problem?). even cuttings would just grow the same way, i assume. on the one hand, maybe the succulents are slightly etiolated when I get them at the greenhouse (same place I got the red pagoda)? here's a photo of that same baby jade when I first got it last summer, then when I bonsaied it, and then again now.

on the other hand, after I take the plants home, I have windows that run the length of my apartment/loft, and probably have at least fifty feet of windowsill space for the succulents. however, I have no balcony or yard, and the windows all face the same south-west direction. in the bedroom I have heavy black out curtains, and could put some of succulents in there, with the window open & curtains closed (so the hot air doesn’t get in the apartment much). there is even an outdoor windowsill (about a foot deep), which I could put a few plants on for a few hours a day when I'm home & can keep an eye on them - though that could be a bit tricky and my condo board may not like it (visible in this photo).

living room windows:

maybe the best thing would just be to crack open the windows when I can, and also to supplement their sun exposure with my LED light, even in the summer....

If anyone has gotten this far in my post, thanks again and I appreciate any or all suggestions! I taught myself how to do this last summer with no help and dove in fast, so am now refining my approach… I live in a post-industrial, semi-urban area and the succulents brighten things up, so hopefully there is an approach that works.

Ruttiger, if you're addicted enough, you will eventually get growth light :). There are several people in this forum with beautiful light setups. Check out ewmayo's posts.

Lisa, that is one gorgeous pot and p. oviferum. Great growing!

S

thanks statice!

Ppl often think that 'incredibly fast' growth is good - but it is not really so...

There are succulents that grow fast; there are succulents that naturally grow longer or even long stems. Those stems should be still quite sturdy, even if they may twist and trail. Not soft and pale looking (not suggesting yours is). I have ghost, and also xGraptoveria 'Fred Ives' that grows mile-a-minute. The stems of it are still very sturdy. I always decapitate it when it gets to that point (very similar to what your ghost looks like), wouldn't even think of supporting it with wire. I would let them grow hanging/crawling if I had the space, and could keep them outdoors year-round. So most of us with same problem will behead plants and re-root them.

Best way to judge if plant is etiolated is too much space between the leaves. Even plants that grow longer stems should have leaves/rosette growing compact, like Lisa's plant (btw, that one also grows longer stems). Here is decapitated etiolated 'Fred Ives":

and same top now - more compact, it is outside in full sun:

What is your pine jade plant - do you know the botanical name. Looks little bit like Crassula messembryanthemoides - is it the same plant as this?:

You have fantastic windows - but light may not be quite enough (sorry for repeating myself).

Many of us living in zones with cold and long winters are using supplemental lights. Kevin (ewwmayo), I believe, is using them even now for some plants he keeps indoors. I wouldn't keep any succulents if I didn't have supplemental lights - they would get looking really poor IMO.

You have some nice plants, and obviously are very enthusiastic. If I may suggest, read about bonsai - the goal is to grow very compact plants. Wiring is used for manipulation - to achieve certain shapes, not for holding up the weak stems. As I said, I do not have any plants that are true bonsai, didn't even try it (just read some about it...) - so maybe I should not comment. The jade you wired has very nice shape, but it is not compact enough. But that is JMO...:) Here is a pic of Portualacaria afra bonsai grown by one of our members, Al (tapla - he posts most often on Container and House plants forums):

Here is a link to thread by Kevin (ewwmayo) showing side-by-side photos of some of his plants after 6mo growing outside in sunlight and then indoors using artificial lights: click me please

thanks rina! it's interesting to see ewwmayo's thread on measuring light (and other factors).. i'm probably gonna pick up one of those inexpensive ph, moisture, and light readers (maybe this one). that should be a start (i saw discussions of a "DLI light meter", which would perhaps be the next step if I really want to see about light). in any case, it sounds like the supplemental lights, even in the summer, may be the direction i'm headed.

i'm curious what you planted that decapitated Fred Ives in.... looks like almost all perlite (?!). the new top looks very bright and healthy. i can see why you would want to decapitate and re-plant.

that Crassula messembryanthemoides is a cool plant! mine is actually "Crassula Tetragona". Here's what it looked like before the wire was put on:

thanks for the picture of the Portualacaria afra - that's really something. I will read up on bonsai, especially in relation to the various types of jades. anyway it sounds like there are different perspectives over the value of using bonsai on echeveria types of plants; i'll continue to experiment!

I use mix of equal amounts of sifted perlite and grit, and smaller amount of turface - usually 10-20% of it. I top-dress with more grit. Grit is ordinary chicken grit from farm supply store (approx. $10/50lb bag) and should not contain any shells. Pumice is very good to use, but it isn't easy to find around here so I use perlite.

I couldn't tell from previous photo it's C. tetragona. Nice plant, and nice shape. C. messembryanthemoides has somehow similar growth; stems are becoming more woody as it gets older. I got pot about 1.5yrs ago - split them and they grew quite nicely since. They look much better outdoors than inside.

Before:

and plant on green pot (lower left) now:

Here is another excellent thread Kevin posed - don't buy any meters before reading it, lol (he does all the hard work, I just use his threads! I believe the one you mentioned is NOT recommended...): tools-tested

Hi again Rina – thanks for that info on perlite, etc. I finally had the chance to call around and am having trouble finding a farm supply store near-by so may just do 75% sifted perlite and 25% miracle gro succulent soil for propagation of stem cuttings – I also have good quality sand (open to other suggestions though; there's a Lowes and just about everything else down the road).

That messembryanthemoides is really something! I haven’t seen those around here but I do like the way it forms a brown trunk like the tetragona.

Thanks also for the link on the light meters – you prevented me from wasting money on a bad one! I’m going to read up more on those, and for now, here's a pic with the early stages of my new set up, which I just got together - I figure I’ll get a few lights like this, spread them around (I have plants, mostly succulents, everywhere) and use them whenever the succulents aren't getting direct sunlight - so, cloudy days and maybe for a bit in the evenings (though I won't leave them on all night).

I’m curious whether you know if Kevin or anyone else on the forum has evaluated indoor lights… the one I got seems okay.

Anyway, thanks again! I'll post updates to let everyone know how it went!

Kevin did, let me find his thread...

ETA: artificial-light-spectrum

I always wondered about light you are using: isn't that color annoying???

btw - I think you'll hear : NO sand! It is usually very fine, and doesn't work for most ppl. Few can grow plants adding it - usually ppl with good knowledge and experience, and even different growing conditions.

thanks for the link! it looks like there is not consensus over whether the red/blue "targeted wavelength" light is better than the lights that look white (which seems to be what Kevin is analyzing). I would very much prefer the white looking lights - the red.blue lights are annoying to have (they kind of hurt your eyes if you look at them too much).

Also thanks for the tip about sand! I will avoid that.