and just to add to the above, I also use STPP in the loads. I have a 4.5 LG FL machine that uses next to nothing water. It's been very frustrating trying to figure out how much laundry detergent to use in this thing. I've the thing a year and still haven't figured it out.

kpyeatt....If you have a Costco near you, I HIGHLY recommend you buy a bottle of their Kirkland brand fabric softener. It is plant based (not animal fat like Downy or Gain) and once rinsed and dry...the fabrics only retain a light, fresh scent. In the bottle, it smells strong, not the finished result.

German detergent, USA detergent, British, Swedish, Mexican....w/o a little fabric softener, no detergent will leave things smooth and soft.

Try just like 1/2 or even a 1/4 cap diluted with some water in your machine's liquid softener reservoir. I think this will make you fall in LOVE again with your fav laundry detergent!!

Just a random thought here. WIth a big ass washer like that, you might possibly be shorting the dose of detergent. If you wash pretty much full capacity loads, you might want to try adding more detergent. Detergent package instructions are usually for the average load, about 8 lbs. Your washer is probably half full with 8 lbs. Sometimes, in my experience, shorting detergent can lead to stiff fabrics. Have you tried adding your usual amount, waiting about 5 minutes, and then testing the slipperyness of the water? If you have adequate detergent, the water should be very slippery between your fingers. If not, you need more detergent. Just a thought.....

larsi . . . I DO have a Costco about 10 minutes from me. So I will try the solution you suggested. I used to use FS all the time but stopped after I read so many horror stories on this forum about how liquid FS gunks up a front loader. Even though I'm religious about hot washes and a clean cycle monthly, it scared me enough to stop just in case it was creating nastiness in places I couldn't see or get to. And when I found out that Downy was animal fat based that really freaked me out. I just don't want a bologna sandwich rubbing up against my skin. In fact, I'm not really interested in ingesting a bologna sandwich. haha. BUT if Kirkland's is plant based, I'll give it a go.

Joel . . . that's part of the problem . . . it's a big ass washer that uses next to zero water and we are a 2 person household so I NEVER have a full load. Sometimes, depending on what cycle and options, I get a whole tub full of suds. But then on other cycles, same amount of clothing, but different cycle and options, I get almost zero suds. I think this thing has a mind of its own and just depends on what kinda mood it's in whether or not it's gonna make me do 5 rinses or 1 rinse. I'll do a test like you say and see what's going on in there. I'm guessing that when it's suds overload the water is probably pretty slippery. I have a love/hate thing with this machine.

I will say that my initial thought was that maybe the Persil had a bunch of zeolites in it and maybe the Miele doesn't? And maybe that would make the clothes softer. But a chemist I am not.

I pretty much only use a small amount of Downy on towels. My clothing is acceptably soft, not dry, or scratchy. Are you sure you don't need a extra rinse? Its probably those darn carbonates, they could make anything rough if not rinsed well. I suggest adding extra rinse before using fabric softener. ..because you need to know if there's carbonate residue your dealing with before covering it up with softener. JMO

Hey mama, I always add as many extra rinses as the machine will allow - 2 or 3 depending on the cycle. And it's because I don't trust this machine. Like I said earlier, I never know when it's going to decide to suds like crazy or barely conger up one measly sud bubble. And I can't sit in there and babysit it through a whole cycle so I always just hit the extra rinse button as many times as it'll let me.

Kpyeatt....if you regularly do HOT washes, and/or a machine clean with bleach or a dedicated machine cleaner packet, leave the washer door ajar between uses and regularly remove your soap/softener tray and rinse well with HOT water...liquid fabric softener will NOT, NOT, NOT build up and cause problems.

Build up problems (mold, slime, biofilms) are caused by washing only in cold and keeping the machine shut between uses.

I use a TON of liquid fabric softener, I bet So, So, So much more than anyone on our forum...and the two times over the years I have had a Technician have to open up my machine....they were absolutely amazed how clean it was!!

HOT water, Sanitize cycles, mainly powder detergents (although I do like and use liquids too), and letting the machine breathe between uses....USE ALL THE LIQUID FABRIC SOFTENER YOU WANT!!! :)

I do EVERY BIT OF THAT Larsi, and have since I first bought a FL back in '06. So I'm going to stop giving in to scare tactics! LOL! I NEVER wash in cold water. In fact, everything gets at least a hot wash because the manufacturers have dumbed these machines down so much as far as the temps allowed. And I use the sanitary quite a bit and sometimes with steam. Soooo off to Costco I go! On another COMPLETELY different, off topic subject . . . do you happen to love or hate the seats in your BMW? I hate mine. soooo uncomfortable but they want $10,000 to switch out the front two. What a joke. I've purchased numerous seat pads/cushions online with no success in softening them up. Wonder if the Kirkland FS would help soften them up, too? hmmmmmmm... : /

As for why some loads may suds more...if a load is more soiled it can cause less to no suds.

I can certainly see why that would be the case, mama. I used to have a Whirlpool Duet purchased in August '06 and NEVER EVER EVER had a suds problem in that thing and I knew exactly how much to dose each load. Simple dimple. But this LG is a constant balancing act. Hardly any water so I normally use less detergent than I used in my Duet but then if you don't use enough, then I know it doesn't get the clothes clean. So....I can use the amount I think is enough to get the clothes clean and end up with suds galore OR I can under dose and wear partially clean clothes. I think it's the "no water allowed" thing with this LG that's making it so difficult to find the sweet spot it likes. Wish I could get rid of it but it's not even a year old 'til August. Oh, and it can't balance a load to save it's life. We have used a digital level on it to read 0.0 and have made SURE that the feet are flat on the floor. I have NEVER had one single balanced load in this thing. I do like all the options and cycles, tho. I don't wanna completely dog it.

Have you ever called for service and tell them you can't get it to balance?

kpyeatt...LOVE, LOVE the seats in our BMWs. They are comfortable, supportive and heavenly.

What model LG washer do you have?

mama, I have not called for service because we keep going back and forth whether to replace the flooring in the kitchen and laundry room. I guess I'm putting off having to call them twice because if we replace the floors they'll just have to come back out and fix it again...I guess. But at this rate, the bearings are gonna be shot in about 3 months I'm guessing.

greeny... it's LG WM4270

larsi, lucky you! ours are hard as a rock ("ventilated" which is a joke). They're even the multi-contour comfort seats. Ummm hmmmmm. They must have run out of foam padding when they got to ours. I'm about ready to trade it in and it's not even a year old. I live in Houston and I can't get even 1/4 of the way to Dallas without my back and rear end killing me. I'm thinking horseback may be a better way to go. Wish I loved mine like you do.

Unfortunately your LG sounds like a lemon. If it's still under warranty I'd have it looked at.

kpyeatt...sorry your LG and BMW seats are so bad. I do not personally like anything LG, but I love, love BMW (have been driving & owning them since the mid 90's).

It's funny, I almost did not get my current '17 BMW because it had every option, I mean crazy loaded...but no ventilated seats (just heated). Since my last 4-5 cars had ventilated, I thought I would die in our CA heat w/o them....but we have another '17 BMW with ventilated seats and they do absolutely nothing!! I totally agree with you.

My last 4-5 cars (not BMW) with ventilated actually pumped A/C thru the holes in the leather seats, or at least used strong fans for humidity control. BMW ventilated seats are pointless.

I am now SO happy I got the car I have, since it is the perfect colour combo I wanted (metallic mineral white with black leather and burr walnut wood), and did not get hung up on ventilated seats. Also, my seats are so padded and comfy and supportive, I feel I could drive cross country in them!!

For your next car, if you really want or need ventilated seats...Ford and Range Rover actually pump cooled, A/C air into the seats. Amazing. Only two cars I know that do this. Not even Bentley or Rolls-Royce do this!!

Alex...Haha..I spit coffee laughing at that.

I only have the 15 model on my Grand Caravan Sport...trust me there's nothing grand about it. Lol.

whirlpool....I hear ya. I do I do. My husband just traded in his 15 year old Tahoe July 5 that had 268,000 miles on it. Had to be inspected this month and needed a lot of work so we opted to say bye bye to it. This is his first brand new car since 1982. He needed it tho. His commute is 1.5 hours each way (Houston traffic is the best). He even has a radio now to listen to (our youngest son blew out the speakers in the Tahoe awhile back) haha.

Larsi ... what BMW do you have? I'm feeling slighted, jipped. Honestly, even in hot, humid, miserable Houston I did NOT want the ventilated seats. We had a '14 Tahoe (that I decided was too big) and it had REAL air conditioned ventilated seats. Worked great BUT those seats were hard, too. So when we decided to get rid of the thing my husband insisted on the ventilated seats. I didn't want them for fear of them being too hard. And I had read that if they're ventilated, there's not as much padding in them. He doesn't drive the car but when he's in it, he hates the sears too. Too hard. As far as the "ventilated" seats in MY car. Horrible. Nothing. I'm on the BMW forums a lot and I see a lot of complaints about how terrible they are. But apparently, looks like you can have it coded for the fan to blow harder. Maybe that's the problem. Who knows. I took it in last week for an oil change and sat in some other BMW's with the cheaper leather/ no ventilation....much, much better. Ours has the Mocha Nappa leather package. The leather is smooth. Just too hard. I'm going to try one more cushion I found online. If this one doesn't work, I'll probably just push the think over a cliff and get a new one. Oh, and while I'm complaining and being a brat : / I had to change out the Harmon Kardon stereo system. Complete crap. Tried adjusting it but never could get it to sound right. Made my ears bleed. BUT I LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE the way the thing drives!!!!

greeny . . . a lemon??? Really!!!??? UG. I guess I'll call next week. I am a bit concerned about the bearings. If it's a lemon I guess I'm still stuck with it. I wonder if anyone else has had this problem with this model LG not balancing??? Wonder why it says "true balance" on the front. haha what a joke.

mama ... too funny! I spit coffee out too at whirlpool's comment!!!!! "there's nothing grand about it" ....hahahaha!

make the biggest stink you can with the store that sold you that LG, and keep makin' a stink until they get it FIXED. don't let an expired warranty slow you down. if they want your business and those of your friends in the future, they will get it fixed. do not be intimidated.

Oh I'll make a stink. I got it at Beast Buy. I actually bought the extended warranty with this thing (unfortunately). I won't be able to unload it as quickly now. BUT it DOES need to work properly while I have it. I have taken about 52 gazillion videos of it "doing it's thing" so I can show a tech... just in case it decides to behave properly when someone is watching it. You know, kinda like when you take a car in cuz it's acting up and you can't replicate it at the fixer upper shop. But yes, I'm very frustrated with this machine. I LOVED my whirlpool Duet. But after 10 years, it flooded our laundry, kitchen, and dining room while we were out of town for 3 days last August. So I booted it out.

LOL @ Alex/Whirlpool and MamaPinky......Rain, Golf, Grand Caravan, 15, 17.....

You both kill me. Love you!!! I almost choked on my coffee as well ;)

Yes, get it looked at since it's still under warranty. I think it might be a lemon because LG has a reputation for making good machines that have no problems balancing. Good news is if you got your extended warranty through Best Buy they say "they'll fix it or replace it".

greeny... thanks for that bit of info. I didn't know that. I will call them next week for sure.

kpyeatt:

Your balancing situation may be due to all of the washers feet not being securely planted on the floor. One of the first loads in our LG 3570 caused a great deal of vibration - so bad that I stopped the machine during the final spin, pulling out half of the load before I let the spin finish. During a subsequent load I noticed the washer rocking slightly back and force between two opposite corners. I turned the screw of the front leg under the front corner that was rocking about 1/4 turn with the supplied wrench. This caused all of the feet to be much more solidly planted on the floor, resulting in much-more stable washer during spins.

I read somewhere that one can "tune" a washer for a floor by leaving one of the front feet unlocked. Do a rinse and spin load made up of a few bath towels. When the machine is in the spin portion of the cycle turn the unlocked front foot with the wrench counterclockwise or clockwise. If the machine starts rocking or vibrating more noticeably then turn the foot in the opposite direction until the vibration is minimized. Something like that. You might try to Google this subject to find more thorough information.

Good luck with getting this resolved.

thanks so much asko. I will try this, as well. very helpful info. it's so off balance it makes LOUD booming noises like something is cracking in half inside the machine.

As far as I know, Miele laundry products have not been specifically made for the American market. This is in contrast to Persil which developed a detergent strictly for the American market.

Do you use your Miele laundry soap (or liquid?) in a front or top loader? You may want to use less, and add a second rinse, if this helps.

Currently I use Miele for white laundry and the other Miele for dark fabrics. Also the Miele product for silk and wool. This one comes in liquid only. In the past I used Persil for white laundry but the last time I used Persil (the European version, not the one developed for the American market) the scent was overpowering. This is when I switched to Miele.

oldie - I just ordered the Miele silk, wool, delicates liquid detergent last night. I plan to try it out on my 100% cotton percale sheets. But I actually quite love the Persil (German) scent. Way better than any American made sickeningly fruity/flowery smell.