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Scotch Pine topiary- how much sun?

9 years ago

I have an area that I'd really like to put a hindu pan tree. I found a nice one at a local nursery that is a French Blue Scotch Pine. My concern is if I have enough sunlight for it? It's a south-east facing area kind of in a corner nook by my house. It gets dappled sun thru a couple high canopy trees from around 7-10am, and bright uninterrupted sun approx 10-2. After 2pm the sun gets blocked in that exact are by a small jut-out from my entryway, but the area 2-8 ft to the side of it gets sun until around 4 or 5pm. Also I don't know if it matters but it would be planted 5ish feet off my house which has white siding so that area still "feels" quite bright from 2-4pm from all of the reflection of the sun off the siding. But- with topiary since some of the green is cut off, does it need even more sun to get enough photosynthesis? Also as a note- I'm in Minneapolis so the hours and sun I gave are for mid-summer, in winter with the sun further south and without leaves on the canopy tree it would get more sun.... These Hindu pans are expensive and would be one of two splurges I've made in 3 years for the house.... I'd hate to put the money in and have it die! I'd love any advice or personal experience anyone can share about how much sun your pines need or if you have experience with scotch pine topiaries. Thank you in advance.

Comments (15)

  • 9 years ago

    Full sun all day for all pines. All the more so if one is being pruned so that the foliage is being kept denser than normal. As is the case with "poodles" etc.

  • 9 years ago

    as noted.. a pine is a pine.. regardless of how pruned.. so full sun it is ...


    that said ... most things dont die outright.. from reduced sun ..


    and really..how that all works out in your micro climate of sun .. is for you to give it a try ...


    if this is your dream plant ... regardless of cost ... even if just for a few short years ... then JUST DO IT ...


    if the world as you know it.. will end.. if you are investing your last penny.. and cant fathom the thought ever over losing anything.. then perhaps you ought to walk on by ...


    in your full equation of sunlight.. remember there will be a few weeks or months.. when trees are leafless... getting your plant some extra sun.. though in cold seasons when it might not be processing at full efficiency...


    also .. you do understand.. you will have to keep it in this form thru annual pruning ..


    ken


    BTW: we used to have a dude here.. that would say ... you drink your scotch while pruning your scots pine .... we bored him.. until he left .. lol ...





  • 9 years ago

    I have a dwarf Scots pine 'Glauca Nana' in similar growing conditions (dappled and partial sun in South-East facing L-nook of the house) which is doing very well, it has grown 4"-5" in the year I have it. I planted it on a mound (root flare about 8" above lawn level) with a rain catch basin of about 3' diameter and about 2" deep. The overall diameter of the mound is about 5'. Good luck!

  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    A year may not be long enough for that much distortion or thinning to appear. 'Glauca Nana' is based on f. glauca 'Nana' with the f. glauca being redundant for a tree that is usually bluish. So the preferred name is P. sylvestris 'Nana'.

  • 9 years ago

    ACS distinguishes between 'Nana' and 'Glauca Nana'. Wonder why?

    FWIW, my plant label says 'Glauca Nana'.

  • 9 years ago

    Wouldn't be the only entries in there I've seen where they are giving full treatment to two names, with one considered elsewhere to be a synonym of the other. Possibly relevant in this instance is a tendency for nurseries to apply old names to new plants, that aren't connected to previous introductions - so the one being grown under the synonym now actually is different from the other being grown under the correct name. (With perhaps neither contemporary clone having anything to do with the original introduction). So maybe in this instance there are two different cultivars in circulation under the two names. In which case the one being grown under the synonym should be given a new name of its own.

    Just as nurseries can often be loose with application of names how they style names on tags doesn't have that much bearing on what a particular specimen should be called.

  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I have three, one appears to be in less light than yours, one about the same/maybe a tad more, and the other is in full sun. The full sun specimen has the bluest needles and is thriving. All look good and new growth is solid on all, but the "pom poms" are not as vigous/full on the one in the least sun. Still looks nice, just not as dense foliage or as blue as one in most sun (could be genetics on color). Will be curious to see how they hold up. Is it too late to prune in Columbus, Ohio?

  • 9 years ago

    pines are candle pruned

    ron

  • 9 years ago

    Which means you prune in spring when the new growth hasn't unfolded the leaves yet.

  • 9 years ago

    Thank you all for the info! When you say that it probably won't die outrught from reduced sun, do you think that could mean that if I see it thinning 2-3 years down the road that I could possibly just move it to a sunnier location and maybe it wouldn't be a total loss? I don't really want to put it in that other place to start since just put in some shrubs that I'd prefer to let them stay for symmetry sake, but if the pine struggles in my ideal location maybe it could be a backup plan...? How much would it hate to be moved 3 years from now? Starting with a 10 gallon container approx 4-5 ft tall.

  • 9 years ago
    last modified: 9 years ago

    I like my dwarf Scots pine tree very, very much, but if I had to find a fault with it, then that is that the crown is too dense at about 2/3 of the circumference.

    Every other week or so, I prune the crown very lightly to thin it out very gradually so that in a year or two or three, I hope to achieve the crown density I want, consistent with what I will find the tree will be happy with. (FWIW, I want the wooden branch structure to be just visible, which is something that I cannot achieve with mere candle pruning. Moreover, I like the visual crown volume to be taller, which is a different issue altogether.)

    Anyway, I don't think that your pine will struggle in your ideal location. But it also depends on your expectations and what effort you want to put in to achieve your expectations. I like airy plants, for example, but you may like very lush plants, etc., etc., there is really no right or wrong answers here.

  • 9 years ago

    BTW, MBG has a record on the 'Glauca Nana' but not on the 'Nana'. MBG mentions the 'Nana Compressa' and perhaps 'Nana SomeOtherThings'. Not sure what to think about all that at the moment.

  • 9 years ago

    Thank you all for the info. I went for it!

    One question- the lower branches are very close to ground level, and touching the mulch slightly in two areas. Should I try to train them upwards a bit (wire, prop from below?) or will they be ok? I don't mind the look, but don't want to leave it more prone for disease....

    I hope I can keep the pruning up enough to keep it fitting in this area. Now to read up on pine topiary. So far it seems like they say not be too agressive or if I cut off all the buds I may not have needles in a couple of years since it sounds like needles have a three year life so new ones need to keep coming in to fill in where three year ones fall out. Any other recommendations or references to good books, youtube videos or websites to learn more?

    thank you all!

  • 9 years ago

    It looks great! A couple of comments.

    Nurseries often plant too deep, and if you plant at the same depth, then you would have planted too deep as well. The root flare should be visible, but the root area is too dark to be clearly visible in the photos, check for correct planting depth.

    In the first photo, I would have planted the tree further away from the wall on the left so that I can maintain that side of the tree (particularly the lower branches) with my back against that wall. It would also look a bit better with the space, IMHO.

    I would not prune the tree in its first year and thereafter only prune it according to how the tree itself wants to grow, thus pay close attention to the growth pushes in the spring but don't prune anything until at least August next year, even if the 'clouds' don't look smooth.

    I would move the mulch away from where it touches the lower branches, or you could re-plant the tree on a mound which would even showcase the tree. I think that wires and props look out of place, but it is your tree.

    Looks like the tree will look even better and better as it establishes itself!