Dear Yardvaark, I am not too good in drawing, but i tried to make a sketch. Here it is.

Thank you for helping, i really appreciate it.

Sorry, but I am not getting the symmetrical vibe with your yard. Getting more like this ...

For suggestions of plants, google "companion plants" to the berry bushes you get, and you'll get some ideas. Mint grows tolerably well in shade but needs to be contained.

Dear Yardvaark(9A). Thank you so much for suggestion, i wouldnt thought about it myself but i really like it.

So taking your layout a bit further i came to plan like this

The question now is where to put another rised bed?

As for the trees - do you think the american sweetgum will work in shade? I saw in the nursery tree treated on 2m height with mature crown diameter of 3 m. It will look these catalpa trees on image below, but have some fall color that i want.

the howard garden · More Info

l pinkmountain, good idea, i will try it. regarding mint - i already grow some there.

There is a fastigiate variety of sweetgum called "Slender Silhouette that I just planted that might do well for you if you still want room for a few other things that wouldn't be shaded out. Does not have the shape shown in your photo though and the color is ho hum in the shade. I wouldn't put a sweetgum in that space though, too small IMHO unless you are thinking of a dwarf cultivar. Sweetgum can grow in partial shade, not sure how colorfully. In my experience, sweetgum is more of a triangle shaped tree than a "gumball." There are many other cultivars of sweetgum though so maybe the one at your nursery is different than the ones I have seen. You might look into parrotia for great fall color, or good ol' American hornbean/Musclewood. Mine had great fall color but it was growing in full sun. Not ideal for the tree but the fall color was great. Also, some of the Japanese maples might suit your needs. If you're into edibles, serviceberry trees would look good there too. They can have nice fall color, but again, depends on a lot of variables.

Bernik, the trees you've mentioned -- pine, sweetgum -- are positively huge so I can't imagine how they would fit in the small space for which you're considering them. For that spot, I would think you'd be looking for a shade tolerant large shrub, possibly multi-trunk, that you could limb up into a small tree form. Since you're trying to grow a lot of plants that require as much sunlight as possible, resist the temptation to add too much more shade.

In order to determine where to fit a raised planter ... you might consider the back yard space to be more or less a room. The grass lawn is the central path/floor space and the plantings around the edge are roughly equivalent to furniture, cabinetry & appliances. The latter form a perimeter of sorts around the central grass path. If you need more "furniture/cabinetry/appliances," one option is to thicken the perimeter border and shrink the lawn/floor space. Then, you can squeeze more things into the border area. You don't want to squeeze the grass/floor area too much or make it too convoluted or it will become difficult to access the furniture/cabinetry/appliances area, or those things maybe become, or look, cluttered and messy. You need to develop a reasonable balance. It will be hard to maintain visual appeal if you make the lawn/floor too small and the border/furniture too large. The red line is an example of how you much shrink the lawn and enlarge the border. Since you will be the sole judge of how right or wrong it is, the degree of how much lawn-shrinking is acceptable weighs more on you than anyone else.

YV, apparently there is a dwarf, multi-stemmed cultivar of sweetgum called "Gumball." I have never seen it but it looks interesting from what I saw online. Still, as you have mentioned, in that space if you want to put a lot of things together then best not to pick a large dominant tree for that corner. Eventually it will hog the space and everything else will languish. I am a horrible "overplanter" so I should know. Still, it gives me a few years pleasure and something to "redecorate" later . . .

Yardvaark(9A) l pinkmountain,

thank you for the comments. I will still consider to put sweetgum, since it is only 2.5 m at most in heith and 3 m in crown. Yes, i am talking about this draft version Gumball. I am not afraid to have more shade as it is already quite a bit there. I know how to work it . This is example of one of my other beds. And i am planning to have something similar below the sweetgum tree.

Also i am considering to add fall camellia, skimmia japonika, pieris japonika, lime glow juniper, irises and hostas. I am still thinking about japanese mountain grass. As it will look good against dark green skimmias...

Anyway if i add these plants i would have something like plan below.

Please note that the upper right corner gets quite some sun, so the part where the junipers grow will get some sun that they need.

I am also not sure about the second sweetgum in the downright corner. I think i will skip it...

l pinkmountain, i am also a bit of overplanner myself...

Don't plant any juniper in much shade.......they dislike it and will get very leggy.

If you want fall color (or even spring/summer color) and need a smallish tree, I'd consider one of the countless choices available in a Japanese maple. There is one (or more) of an appropriate size to fit in any sized garden.

Sweetgums - Liquidambars - are known for having a lot of surface roots that make underplanting with anything difficult. And not everyone is fond of the spiky seedballs they produce in abundance.

You might want to consider arborvitae instead of juniper. Some cool dwarf lime colored varieties. I had one in my last yard called golden globe. Loved it and it did well in the shade.

Dear All, just posting an update on how the things are going... we made the corner flower/shrub bed this weekend. We removed all the stones, added compost sice the soil was poor, added peat moss. We also planted all of the shrubs and plants that i bought on flower fair in Italy, near Palmanova. We also moved the compost bin towards the entrence since it was empty now.

Now we are waiting for the rain to pass to install the paved area.

But when we went along the plan again several further questions arise.

* the area between the upper right strawberry bed and fence doesnt allow to pass it to go to blackberry plant. Also when we cut the grass this area will be hardly accessible. So now i am thinking what to do?

* my black curructs have some desease so i wonder should i get rid of them? Or should i treat them?

Unless you provide a VERY SIMPLE sketch that illustrates your question, I don't think people will understand the exact problem.

Your question about currants would be better asked on a GardenWeb forum that has to do with fruiting or garden plants and their culture. Check the master list for something more closely related.

I got the gist of your issues by looking at the sketches above in the previous posts.

Currants are susceptible to rusts although I can't tell from your photo. You can get advice on other plant based forums or at your local cooperative extension. I had a rust on my crabapple tree that I took a sample of to cooperative extension for diagnosis. Is usually not fatal but is ugly. But I don't know for sure what your problem is so first find that out. Then, depending on what is needed to get on top of that problem, decide how you might re-arrange the garden. How many can you spare to lose? Currants and blackberries are both fairly hardy plants and could be relocated easily if access is an issue. If I had some ratty currants I would try to remedy their problem and if that didn't work I would tear them and then I'd move the blackberry. But that is just me.