If these are all just the same pieces of dirt, why not go buy one of the 200K properties for sale. Why do you want this one? Your reasons are likely why it commands a higher asking price.

What makes those other sales comps? And why is this lot overpriced? You have to 100% be able explain your reasoning for your statements. Because your statements just might not be true if this lot has a premium feature or some improvement that the other sold properties do not.

Hi Sophie, thank you for observations. The comps and city assessed values are well below this property's listing price. It is a bit bigger and more private than the "other pieces of dirt'. We are willing to pay more than market value and more than what the owners initially paid. At the same time, we don't want to over pay either.

There is your answer: it's bigger and more private, thus more valuable. Whether they're willing to negotiate will depend on how badly they need to sell the property. Just because it's been on the market a long time, doesn't mean they are "motivated".

A larger more private lot is not the same as the comps that you used. You have to find similar larger lots for actual comps. Simply, It's not a 200K lot just because smaller more than closed lots sold for that. You have to have real comps in order to say that it is overpriced.

If it has been for sale for a long time, they obviously have the luxury of waiting until someone pays the price that they want. If you are going to convince them of anything, it will have to be with actual factual information rather than incorrect comps and a hope that they are desperate.

Sophie and Anglo...your comments are well taken. The assessed value on this property is also well below the asking price and just above the comps. So the question becomes, how does one actually know the true value of something. Again, I want to pay a fair price, whatever that is, but I don't want to over pay either.

I'd say you're overthinking this. Make an offer for what you think is a reasonable price. If they accept it fine, if they reject it fine, and if they want to negotiate, you know you're in the ballpark.

Hi denita. "I would be surprised if your tax assessed value reflected market value in any way." Interestingly, in this particular case the comps and assessed values are very close to each other. Perhaps it's because this is a new development with very few sales, not sure though.

Jmm1837, you are perhaps correct, I am overthinking things.

^^Well, that's why they say real estate is local. Go with jmm1837's approach. It makes good sense.

Assessed value in my experience has nothing to do with market value. And your comps that appear to be based on non-comparable property are also not very useful in determining market value of the property you are interested in. Where I live you can find out for a fact how much someone paid for a property by looking it up in the county property records. You may want to do that if possible unless you know what you were "told" is a correct fact. How long have the current owners had the property?

Unless there are lots of other properties you'd consider instead, I'd say you need to decide what your budget is and what you're willing to pay and then make an offer. If based on your possibly not useful info you think it's worth $200 and you'd pay $10K over then make an offer. They can reject it or negotiate. Then negotiate up to whatever you're willing to pay.

In my experience if there aren't good comps you somewhat have to go with your gut and if you want the property pay what it's worth to you. You are the market and that's the market value.

We all know that the value of anything is what someone is willing to pay for it. Many a seller is just waiting for the "right" person who finds their property. When we bought our house here, we had one weekend in which to find a house - we were moving from CA to the midwest. We didn't find a house we "loved" - we found one we thought we could make work, and we had been assured by old friends from another city who now lived in our new one, that this was the "right" neighborhood for us.

After moving here, we started talking to contractors about remodeling - we knew we would have to do so when we bought the house. I was also advised by a new neighbor to talk to another neighbor who was a realtor with considerable knowledge of our neighborhood. She told us we could not overbuild the neighborhood but we could overbuild the house - we had to add square footage to any work we did. She also looked up who did our appraisal for our mortgage and gave me his name and number.

I called him and he told me that he appraised it at a higher per square ft amount than he usually did for this neighborhood as the individual rooms were so well sized. He also told me that the house appraised at a lower price than what we had paid. We were putting a large downpayment so it didn't affect our ability to get a mortgage.

Another neighbor told me that for the past 5 years, every spring, the owner would throw on another coat of cheap paint and put out a for sale sign in the yard. He always had a very high price on it - way more than comparable homes in the neighborhood. He finally found his "sucker" - us.

We've lived her now for 33 years, and even though we have remodeled twice and made many significant improvements to the house, we will still make a bit of money when it is sold. And of course, we'll have had all those years living here as well.

There are lots of people who just put something up for sale and hope that someone will buy it at their elevated price. If they wait long enough and can afford to be patient, that someone will usually come along and buy it at their price.

3katz, you are absolutely right, "you are the market". It's a tough situation to be in of course. We definitely don't want to overpay and we want to be fair. We don't want to be in a position where, if needed, we can't sell our property cause it is priced way to high compared to the rest of the neighborhood. I totally agree that we will offer what we think it's worth and fair. (:

Anglo, thank you for sharing your story. We also, have been in similar situations and it's just not fun. The issue with overpaying for something not only rests with having difficulty selling in the future, it also impacts property taxes. The more you pay the higher the taxes. And some people do look at property taxes when purchasing a home.

jimm1837's approach is the best.

"If it has been for sale for a long time, they obviously have the luxury of waiting until someone pays the price that they want."

Not necessarily true; may be the lot is so over priced that no one wants to make an offer. May be the seller has not found a buyer they like to deal with...etc. We turned down a buyer when we were selling a house in the past because the potential buyer was beyond obnoxious and difficult.

" it's bigger and more private, thus more valuable", again may not be true. To some buyers, the lot could be too large to handle and too "private" to cause concerns.

What the seller paid for the property has nothing to do with the future selling price.

The only way you could find out is to make an offer both the seller and you are happy. An offer is not only the price, it includes price, term and conditions.

If you are capable of doing negotiation, and have not owed any realtor's leg work, why do you want to get a realtor involved since it means the owner would accept less after the commission?

^^If the property is already listed - a Realtor is involved. The commission doesn't usually change if the buyer brings in their own Realtor. I didn't get the idea that this was a FSBO. Is it?

Hi azmom "What the seller paid for the property has nothing to do with the future selling price. " I think selling price is important. we would like a fair, win win situation, and don't want offend the sellers by offering too low.

Hi denita. The property is not FSBO. I thought commissions were split between listing and buyers agents. So Without a buyers agent there should be some savings?

PG - it is true with one agent, the agent may be willing to lower his commission, that is between the selling party and his listing agent. As a buyer I like to use the listing agent because the listing agent knows it is his best opportunity to get the highest commission. He wants you to be the successful buyer. That said, he can't make an unreasonable offer work, he also can't make an unreasonable seller see reason. That said, before you approach the agent find the best reasonable offer, I know "reasonable" varies, but the better informed you are, the better you appear to the agent. Give that listing agent a reasonable price and the information how you arrived at that "market value" price. After that it is up to the listing agent, in my state "dual agent" also working for me, to work with the seller to come to terms.

"Hi azmom "What the seller paid for the property has nothing to do with the future selling price. " I think selling price is important. we would like a fair, win win situation, and don't want offend the sellers by offering too low."

It depends.

Here are two hypothetical examples to show you what the seller paid is irrelevant to the future selling price

1, if the seller paid $300k for the lot during last real estate boom, and the comp is $200k now; where would you set your "fair, win win offer that does not offend the sellers by offering too low"?

2. If the seller obtained a lot for $50k, and the comp is $500k now, where is your "win win" offer price?

In the past we have used listing agent and got a better price due to reduced commission.

This is a simple math, if commission is 6%, will listing agent receives more if it is only divided between listing agent and his/her broker with some commission discount, or it is divided among listing and buyer's agents, and two respective brokers?

Some people would say a dual agent would do double amount of work, it is best to have listing and buyer's agents working together. Again, it is not necessarily true. Sometimes more people get involved, it causes more delays and headaches.

cmarlin20 gave wonderful advice.

Cmarlin and azmom. Awesome advice and well taken, thank you (:

Hi denita. The property is not FSBO. I thought commissions were split between listing and buyers agents. So Without a buyers agent there should be some savings?

^^^No, this is a common misconception. The commission is specified in the listing contract with the seller. The commission belongs to the listing broker - no matter who is the listing agent. There is a specification in the listing agreement to split the commission for X% (not always half) with the selling brokerage (not the selling agent). That portion of the commission that goes to the selling office is then split between the selling agent and his/her brokerage. Each of us has an IC agreement detailing the commission we will receive. That IC agreement is signed when we join the brokerage - it could be any split from 100% to 40% or less.

So when you are working with the listing agent, the commission has already been specified in the listing agreement before the property hits the MLS. It's a contract and the split is detailed accordingly. However, nowhere in the listing agreement will you see the breakdown of the listing agent's split with his broker.

To your question, no there is not usually a savings if there is no buyer's agent although occasionally, some listing agents will give a small break in the commission to the seller if they have both sides. This is by no means standard. It is negotiated in by some agents at the time of the listing.