ince you will be living her for a very long time, any chance of you relocating the sink? maybe getting a smaller window and moving it there? can't see the rest of the kitchen so I can't tell.

Are you keeping the same layout?

advantages to going custom is you have them make to your exact measurements that fit your space. you can have odd sizes if need be.

Seems that most of the designers I have spoken with say that their cabinet lines can be made in any size as well.

We have decided not to move any walls, windows, or doors. There is a large window that spans the entire width of the room and is five feet tall that has a great view of the backyard. We live in a row house and the wall where the sink is now is shared with our next-door neighbor.

Please factor in a new counter depth fridge and as for cabinets get a good kitchen designer not one who sells cabinets for a certain but an actual designer. They will be able to not just help with layout but also have cabinets they have used or a good cabinet maker they deal with.

Consider loosing the shelves to the left of the fridge and adding a pantry.

If I was not going to move, I would go to the expense of under counter freezer and refrigerate so that I can have counter space all the way to the window. That would open up the feel of the kitchen's space in a significant way.

In your area, well outside a bit, Amish cabinet makers can offer a high level of craftsmanship. You'll need to search for them. Painted cabs long-term always involve finish compromises because the wood moves and the paint film is rigid. So cracks appear at seam/joint locations over time. Well, unless you maintain a humidity controlled environment. A slab door on a frameless carcass is a style which eliminates most visible joints by eliminating the rails and stiles. Any manufacturer will base the continuing integrity of their paint work on how well you control the humidity swings in your home from summer to winter.

I want to think one of the pros on here said Plain & Fancy are some of the best painted cabs. And in researching I found many happy customers of painted Woodmode cabinets.

But please, do not look at Crystal.

Any recommendations for how I go about searching for a good local cabinetmaker?

I love the idea of getting a local cabinet maker and it makes me incredibly nervous. Our dealings with local craftspeople here in Philadelphia have been horrible, as have our neighbors. (The list goes on and on but I think of two in particular who are local carpenters specializing in custom historic work and they were both absolute nightmares.) The only contractor we have ever liked is our painter, who has worked in many other places in the country, and is just as astounded as we are by the contractors he works with on jobs in Philadelphia.

Two design-build places, that either make their own cabinets or contract to local cabinetmakers, have not wanted to take on my job because it is too small. A friend just had a lovely kitchen installed from a local cabinet maker but they took nine months to make the cabinets - five months longer than was projected/promised. No thanks.

Good luck on your search. I live in a small town in Canada and we have our ownset of issues with trades. I actually use Ikea a lot in my design work and have honestly never had problems.IMO if you want painted cabinets I would go with MDF doors they paint up well , and do not have the expansion problems of wood . The big thing with painted cabinets is to make sure they are done by a cabinet finisher not just aregular house painter.

I spoke with a local cabinet maker yesterday who recommended he build the cabinets and then we have a house painter paint them. That seemed odd to me. He said they scratch more easily but you can touch up the paint job yourself. In fairness, I was asking him about VOCs because I have asthma which is triggered by harsh chemical smells. He was saying that house paint was going to be much lower VOC than the low VOC he uses for finishing painted cabinets. Still, he said he prefers handprinted cabinets because he likes the brushstroke look of it.

he said he prefers handprinted cabinets because he likes the brushstroke look of it.

Well he might, but I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone else who does. And I don't hear many good things about having house painters do it either. You may need to swing back towards getting manufactured cabinets...

You’re going about this completely backwards. You need to find a good designer FIRST. Then a good design. Then worry about cabinets.

Because there is no point in wasting 90K on that existing kitchen layout and infrastructure. You might as well DIY IKEA if you aren’t going to address the design or lighting or ventilation.

There must be 100 qualified folks with a 20 minute drive in your location. Start pounding pavement.

Otherwise you are just obsessing on the 24” rims and pearl paint job that go on the hooptie and not the fact that the hooptie needs a complete rework in order to actually work and be worthy of 90K worth of bling.

Kendrah, you want your cabinets painted in a factory, not by a house painter.

And it may take some time, but there should be a good cabinet maker somewhere there. I heard Amish cabinet makers are really good.

I found my cabinet maker in a Subzero showroom. When I was planning, I literally went every showroom, tile and appliances shop. When I saw what I liked (cabinetry), I asked them where they got them. That's how I found my cabinet maker.

And if they are competent cabinet maker, they have a good designer or at least would suggest one. Also they install their own cabinets too (usually very cheap).

Sophie, How does one begin sifting through 100 + designers? As part of my work I find legal and scientific experts. Piece of cake. Finding a really good quality designer? Baffling to me. Would it be accurate to think that good ones are not on houzz because they don't need to advertise and get all their work word of mouth?

Here's 2 resources-
PA Amish cabinet makers

Lancaster Amish cabinet makers

No. Lots of good designers on Houzz, and in your town, or on the internet. The better ones will work with the showrooms with the better cabinet lines, because they like to buy groceries, and that pays better.

Not many independents around but they do exist. Even in most showrooms, an independent design is still possible. A couple of grand, they come and measure and tweak, and tweak, and you can take the result to the cabinet maker or the shop down the road. Or, work with someone remotely if you are good with being the boots on the ground, measuring things yourself.

There are a lot of possibilities out there, but they do not begin with locking yourself into a cabinet line before you figure out the design itself.

Local cabinet makers aren't designers. They can take dictation, but they aren’t going to be well grounded in design theory or zone functions etc. They will do bad design if you ask them to do it. They aren’t in the business of making your kitchen work better with design input. They are in the business of selling cabinets. You still need a design to take to them.

Sophie,

The designers I have talked to at showrooms do seem to describe to me that they design, for a fee, and I purchase through them the lines their showroom sells. I just want to make sure I've got this correct: What you are suggesting is I would be going to one of these design showroom places that carry specific lines but just asking them to do the design that I can then take elsewhere? I guess I thought that for them them money is then in attaching this service (even though it is a fee service) to cabinets that they then mark up. I am upfront with these designers that I would likely take their design and go elsewhere, right?

At the beginning of the week I was set on the path of finding a good designer, but then so many of them seemed to be attached to cabinet makers that it seemed that I am shopping for quality of cabinet suddenly. Thanks for helping me get back on track.

Rutt was very high end at the time we did our kitchen ( read very expensive). I am a fan of custom particularly in an older house because you won't need any filler strips. Best way to find one is from references from friends/acquaintances who show you their kitchens and sometimes from designers or contractors. That said there is a smaller Pa. company called Signature Custom Cabinetry that makes a very nice product or at least did 5 years ago or so. I agree with others that you want a factory finish if you are doing painted cabinets. Good luck!

Around here, most of the time, design fees are included when you buy cabinets from them. as with everything else in life, good and bad, some of them just try to sell cabinets (doesn't care about designs maybe), but my experience is, if they are reputable cabinet dealers/shops, then they are pretty competent designer as well.

Of course if you hire an independent designer for a fee, I am sure you would get a better service, but why would you pay more if they offer design for free?

And check this website.

https://www.mainlinekitchendesign.com

I learned a lot about big brand cabinets in his blog. He actually is maybe in your area. He is not a cabinet maker but I think he is really a good dealer who knows how to design and give you a good price. If they were in my area, I might have used them.

Kendra’s wants upper end. Not cheepchinesecrapola and mid grade, um, stuff. You do t get 90K upper end quality for 19K.

The cabinets on Mainline are Wellsford, Bishop, 6 Square, Fabuwood, Brighton. Are those cheap cabinets? Or were you referring to Ikea? Again, so confused about how you deal with a designer at a showroom without having to use the lines they represent. The design fees I've encountered around here range from free to $6,000. I don't mind paying a design fee if they are really good designers - $3,000 sounds right to me and isn't much compared to the over all cost of a kitchen. If I were taking down walls and moving windows, I can see how the design fee would cost more.

Post a scale drawing of your floorplan with measurements in the kitchen area. You'll get ideas on layout and you may not need a designer or you'll be more able to communicate your priorities to one you do hire.

Yes those are cheap cabinets.

Some showroom designers will do design only. And some will not. You have to do the legwork. Some online people will do design only with you providing measurements. And some will not. Legwork. I know several, and they all approach things differently. I have some referrals, if you send me a message.

But you have to be really sure what it is that you want to have happen. And how much of an active role that you want to have in the process.

If you want to just have someone come in and do it all for you after asking you two or three questions, then maybe going to an upper end shop and just finding someone you click with would be the best for you. Any upper end cabinet will be more than fine in the hands of the right designer.

dan1888 - Yes! I need to make a drawing to post here. I'm sure I will get lots of great advice. Not sure how to make it to scale. Are there easy to use, free programs for that? I'm a bit of a klutz when it comes to diving into new programs, but I'm glad to try.

Beth H - Your comment about moving the window helped launch me into a great Houzz picture search of sinks that are not beneath windows and has helped give me a lot of new ideas. Thank you!

Kendrah, this link should help you. :) (scroll down for scale help)

Former Philly resident, here! I met my husband in Philly and we moved to Calif. in 2000.

We just installed our Crystal cabs and we are THRILLED. I know it's really hard to decide and you've received some great advice. Crystal is very well made and thoughtfully designed. The customer service is excellent and everything came in as ordered-no mistakes. PM me if you want any more info. Good luck!

...Also, try Sketchup or the Ikea design tool for drawing out your kitchen design.

Ann, the heavens must have smiled on you, because there are clearly too many reasons in the thread I linked to Crystal that do more than give one pause. Too many other truly reputable cab companies out there. Crystal has made a bed they have to lay in now. No one in their right mind would take a chance after reading that when there are other options. At best, it's a total crap shoot with Crystal.

But I'm genuinely happy for you. :)

Every designer will tell you that a counter depth refrigerator is a must. Those that get good reviews cost several thousand dollars. The cheap ones are awful.

If you buy a counter depth, you will forever be locked into buying one with the same measurements, because your cabinets will be built to enclose it.

So think hard about whether you can afford/want to pay for this now and in perpetuity.

I didn't want to pay that much money given how much the kitchen was costing so I went with a standard size standard depth, which means I can always retrofit. The cabinet wall is 2" deeper to hide most, but not all, of the grey side panel.

I got a lot of pushback from independent designers I interviewed because of the refrigerator. I finally used a designer from the custom cabinet shop - free but meh. Things improved significantly when she left the country in mid-project and I worked directly with the manager of the cabinet shop. But it was an enormous amount of work for me to source everything I needed, learn design details, etc.

What is the difference in depth between the standard refrigerator and a counter depth one? I only recently discovered that our's is about 4" away from the wall and could likely be pushed back further - I just need to take the time to pull it out and see if there is some awkward mechanical reason for why it is not pushed back all of the way, such as a big outlet box jutting from the wall.

I quite like the capacity of our current fridge, which came with the house. I do cooking for a homeless youth center, 50 teens, and can put large Tupperware tubs in here of salad, entree, and dessert for the whole lot of them. I would hate to potentially loose that capacity with a more shallow fridge.

It’s funny but when reading decor mags, they mention the designer/home owner installed ikea cabinets a whole lot more often than any other brand mentioned in this thread

What is the difference in depth between the standard refrigerator and a counter depth one?

Counter depth runs 23-27 inches deep

Regular runs 30-34

Definitely see why your frig is sitting away from the wall. But regardless, in light of what you do (bless you!) I wouldn't go with a counter depth.

I am philly local. I used an Amish cabinet maker for my kitchen and thrilled with results after several years planning. I also put in the ikea shaker cabs in a philly rental (25 yr warranty replacement) - snap! It looked great; not ikea-ish at all. I’m going back to ikea to use their cab drawers for another project. They have a service that will come out to design, measure, and put into ikea system so you don’t have to fool around with their tool. They deduct the cost from cabinet cost at purchase. Ikea also mentioned to me yesterday that their kitchen sale is coming up in February 2018, so anything purchased within 3 months prior would be eligible for sale pricing.

Reach out if I can help. Best wishes for a great kitchen.

Unless things have changed considerably during last few years, $3000 for a design fee is outrageous!!

Grab some graph paper, measure out your room, add measurements to paper and post here. Since you are not looking at moving walls, sink, etc. it should be fairly easy to come up with a viable plan.

For my most recent kitchen remodel, I had my heart set on inset cabinets. Did a lot of online research and came up with several names. Contacted all of them. Was happiest with Wood-mode and especially their local dealer. Well local to where the kitchen was being done - we were living more than an ocean away.

The CKD had over 40 years’ experience and much useful advice. I went with his contractor, whom he supervised, making my life a whole lot easier. Very happy with my Wood-mode cabinets and my whole kitchen. In our state, there is no sales tax on installed items, whereas there is on purchased items, which basically made the installation free.

By the way, some of the dealers never replied to my initial inquiries, or completely ignored us when we visited their showrooms. That helped weed out some brands!

Hey Kendrah how do you get people to respond? I posted my question yesterday and no responses so far?

Hi Parag,

It could be a number of things. Did you write a post in the correct place? (Design dilemmas.) Did you provide enough information for people to answer your questions? Did you post a photo too? That always gets more people to look at your post.

Hope this helps.

Thanks Kendrah