I'm not sure that is a Kalanchoe. Looks more like a Cotyledon to me but I'm not sure. Also, those aren't stems. They are leaves. There is one vertical stem in the center.

Anyway, that doesn't change the answer to your question which you seem to have thought on your own. I'd leave the shriveling leaves (and all leaves) on the plant. That's what happens in the plant's native environment with no care from humans. As you mentioned things are stored in the leaves that the plant uses to grow roots. The plant is probably saving something useful from the shriveling leaves, too. I don't see roots in the picture but you typed it is already growing them. To be honest, if you really want to remove that one big shriveling leaf at the bottom I doubt that would make much of a difference at this time but I'd rather leave it there until it is completely dried up.

What did you plant it in? I'm concerned the soil mix you used might compact in a pot and become quite hard. It might make watering and root growth difficult.

I put the plant in a combination of turface fines and gold fines. It's very dry desert-like soil.

When I do water it, I take it out and put water directly on the roots and let it sit out of the soil for five minutes soaking up any water it can. Then I put it back into that soil which must dry it out pretty quickly.

westes

I find that turface alone is quite water retaining. (I potted few plants in pure turface as experiment). I actually reduced amount of it in a gritty mix I make too, from 1/3rd to anywhere between 10-20%. Maybe that is just my problem. And you are in much warmer climate, so that may not be a problem. May I ask what are 'gold fines'?

I also wonder about watering you described; are you actually taking plant out of mix and watering/wetting the roots?

@rina gold fines are just a construction gravel base material. It's rock and dust. I would think of it as a replacement for gravel but with fines. I just had some lying around and thought it would make a suitable material for growing a seed or rooting.

I have the plant loosely placed on top of the soil, down maybe 1/2 inch. It is easy to take out and put back in. I am actually taking the plant out of the soil, moving it to the sink, and washing it. So basically I am flooding it with water, then I am placing it back into dry conditions. At this point, I am so worried about root rot on this plant that I am taking no chances. I previously posted twice on this plant, which had a severe root rot, and even after I cut it to re-root that section caught root rot. This is my third try and it is working this time. I am trying to not jinx it by getting the soil wet.

Turface is the most water-retentive soil material used in container gardening, for sure. I actually have it at about 45% of my gritty mix. I like the way it holds water without puddling the water. Maybe that is a mistake. Why do you want your soil drier than a standard gritty mix?

I also query that watering method Westes. I’ve never heard of anyone doing that. It could be either the reason, or one of them, why the plant isn’t doing well.

Every time it’s turned out of it’s pot, root damage will occur. It will never ever get a heathy enough root system to support itself in good growth using that unrecognised way to water. Can I ask why? It also seems to be getting drawn out, etiolated, maybe better light is needed too.

If I may suggest you get a regular and smaller plastic pot, which should have plenty of drainage holes. Bellied pots just dont work..has it got a hole? Ones with glazed insides are another negative point, sorry. Get, or better still mix up some good gritty, perlite rich c/s mix of which there are literally hundreds of recipes on here and every other post advocates using them, plant your whatever it is (sorry I’m no ID expert but can spot probs with other peoples plants, mixes and cultural methods!) and leave it well alone till it shows signs of rooting. Then give adequate water, infrequently but thoroughly, let it drain completely and don’t water till virtually dry, give it good light...and don’t extracate from its pot to water...and that last bit applies not only to this but to any other plant! :-)

Gill

@greenclaws the plant is doing well now. It was not doing great in prior generations, when it was planted, and when I first tried cutting away root rot. Now that the callous formed and some early roots are forming, the way I am watering it has had no visible negative effect at all.

The roots of this plant are at an early stage. See attached photo. Those four tiny roots trying to crawl out the base are the only roots it has. If it had a fine mesh root system I would obviously not be doing this. Did you understand that this is a cutting, not a fully mature plant with roots?

I don't want to drench the soil because of my concern that the plant is still susceptible to root rot. I have enough fines in the soil that it would probably retain water for a while. If it was in the gritty mix, with sized particles, I would have no problem with giving it some water in a pot. But I had used a soil for rooting that included fines because so many people recommended that I do that. Such a soil will create a slurry that doesn't dry out rapidly if I water it. I am trying to be cautious on the side of keeping the plant too dry until it is ready to be planted in the gritty mix. The roots still look too small to me for that but feel free to disagree.

westes

I agree with everything Gill said. I believe your plant would have more roots if it was left just sitting in the mix. If you worry so much about overwatering it, I believe it would be better to use different rooting media.

I didn't root plant like yours, and am not quite sure what it is, but I have rooted many cuttings from different plants. I use much more gritty mix, very often exactly same as for 'mature' plants. Hardly ever I used soil. I sift perlite I use, and have some little smaller than I like to use otherwise, so I usually use this for rooting - but not always. There is also small grit there. Here is a photo of some of it with a measuring tape:

I think most of the particles are between 2-3mm, maybe touch bigger. I don't use anything smaller/finer than that. There is chicken grit (black and white particles); perlite (white) - these in approx. equal amounts, and some turface (beige/pinkish particles) - only about 10-15%. I do not measure it anymore, just go by the look. I don't want to discard smaller material, that is why I use it. If I have 'lots' of it (hardly ever! :), I pot some small plants in it too. Main reason is size of pot for these, and smaller (but uniform) mix is easier to manage in small pots. Like this tiny Anacampseros someone gave me, potted just 2 days ago; it is in 2" pot and it has roots:My 'regular' gritty is just little bigger, particles approx. between 3-6 mm; same mix of grit and perlite as above. Here is photo - there isn't any turface in it yet, I was just making it:

I use this same mix very often for rooting too. It may be difficult to tell perlite apart from grit - it is very white, and white grit has tiny gray specks in it. Here is the grit I have, just scooped from 50lb bag:

I use this kind of gritty for all my succulents. I like how easy it drains; leaving plants outdoors, I don't worry about rain. That may not be so suitable for you since you are in much warmer climate and maybe your mix dries up faster? I don't know, since I never lived in warmer zone than 6. But we get temps above 85*F in Summer too. I let them to get 'watered' when it rains, and water by hand (using garden hose) if it doesn't rain for a while.

Vast majority of pots I use are plastic, you can see in photos I post.

Here is photo of beheaded Aloe variegata; large pic is beheaded plant in March 2017, insert is plant in Nov. 2017:

You can see more about it + many more posts by other members, beheading different plants, in this thread

Eta: I do not water rootless cuttings until they have roots. I don't keep them in strong sun until I see new growth. Many will start rooting in about 2-4 weeks, even sooner. One can usually tell by visible new growth. If I am not sure and there is nothing growing yet, I very gently tug the plant. It there are roots, some resistance could be felt. This happens more with slow growing plants.

@rina I use 3/8" decorative pebbles in gritty mix, but I am looking for a supplier for 1/8".

@greenclaws, I understand perfectly well the difference between a stem and a leaf. The problem is this stupid website prevents us from editing posts after a few minutes, so if we discover a typographic error, later on, we are screwed. I don't understand what this website is trying to accomplish by not allowing people to correct mistakes. It just fills the pages of their website with pointless discussions like this one.

The plant arrived diseased and rotting. I have struggled with it in that condition from the beginning. Compared to how it looked before, now it is heavenly. What would you have me do?

There is no way to make this plant look as healthy as my other succulents immediately because it has no roots and it is a cutting and it is winter. Here is a different succulent I have raised in gritty mix for a year. It's healthy like this because it has a huge and extensive root system it has grown in the gritty. You can't ask my pathetic diseased cutting to compete with this level of health, no matter what soil I use, no matter what method of watering I use, and no matter what environment I place it into.

westes

IIRC, according to Al (tapla): ..." A uniform particle size of just over 1/10" holds no perched water, so in a perfect world, the particle size would be about 3/32" - 3/16"... (hope I have the numbers right!)

It would be quite difficult to get them all exactly the same/uniform, since there is no perfect world :). But 3/8" (almost 10mm) is quite large, that is what I use only for top-dressing. Turface, which you said you use quite a bit of, is typically much smaller. Hopefully you can get something close to 1/8" (just touch over 3mm) size. I believe ppl in US usually buy Cherrystone? (I think it is chicken grit...)

Here in Canada, I just get a chicken grit/granite chips that doesn't have any fancy name. I posted photo of it in previous post. I buy size #2 (growers size) in farm supply store. It is between 3-6mm, with vast majority of it being 1/8"-3/16". There is small amount of real dust that can be easily just rinsed out. It comes in 50lb bags for about CD $10. I believe it is even less $ in US -:( - we pay more for almost everything!

Westes, do you use pumice?

@Kara yes I have a bag of pumice and I am using that to try to root some Adenium stems. I filtered out the fines in that. You prefer pumice for rooting?

I prefer pumice for everything. Except for seedlings. I feel it's too big for little seeds. Some cactus seeds are smaller than poppy seeds;).

I was just wondering if you use pumice in your mix. if you didn't I was just curious why not? My regular mix is about 50% pumice, 30% perlite, and 20% cactus mix. Sometimes it changes depending on the plant, but that's usually about the ratio.

The gold fines look like it would get muddy. Does it?

@kara I do not use pumice in my usual gritty mix because:

1) I have to filter out the fines, so that creates more work for me

2) It is just ugly to my eye. I invested in decorative stone, although I am having problems finding it in the ideal size.

The soil I have the plant in this topic planted in would probably get slurry/muddy. That's what inspired me to avoid watering that soil at all, while the plant was putting out its first roots.

Home Depot sells a product called Coarse Sand that appears to be more the size you are seeking. I just saw small bags of it, but there may be larger bags. I bought it for top dressing but the small size prevented evaporation in my weather conditions. I have mixed it in my gritty mix with no problems. It's almost like aquarium gravel.

I use Manna Pro Poultry Grit (granite only) that I get at Tractor Supply Co. This works quite well for me.

Pumice is not readily available here, so I use a lot of perlite. Perlite is not my favorite, but I use what I have available. Yes, I still have to sift and rinse. Here is my mix of turface, granite and perlite. I cannot use any soil in my mix. It simply won't dry out during my summers.

I think that my mix is attractive, but sometimes I use top dressing to hold in the perlite. It blows out of my pots sometimes. Lava rock works well for this, but I have a hard time finding smaller chunks. I think your pebbles would make a nice top dressing since they are attractive.

Sometimes I leave cuttings on the counter outside until they start to root (mostly because I got too busy) or I stick them into my gritty mix - dry. Then I ignore them. I do have the advantage of having them outdoors all year long. I have wet summers and dry winters.

@crenda, if you can find an order page for "Coarse Sand" on the Home Depot website I will look into ordering it. It is attractive. For sure they do not stock that at my local Home Depot. The brand they do carry is quite expensive relative to what I pay at a quarry for 50 pound bags.

@rina, I found a supplier for 1/4" quartz decorative pebbles like I have been using. Notice the price of $109 per TON (2000 pounds). I usually buy it by the bag, but if I had a larger property I would surely pay them to deliver a ton and then I would be supplied for years.

What am I missing here? If you remove the stems (which stems), won't you be left w/a pile of individual leaves?

I too don't understand the question, what you mean by it & why you'd want to remove the stems.

Where are the stems you mean? Aren't they what the leaves come from?

I agree completely that taking the plant in & out of its environment to water is destructive to the plant. (As stated above) It breaks any tiny little root hairs that might have sprouted btwn waterings. Bad idea, sets the cutting back yet again every time you do it.

I clicked your last pic to enlarge. There are no 'stems' coming from the base of the plant, & as said above, you seem confused btwn stems & roots; stems don't grow out from the base like that; roots do. I see 1 small cream colored root (abt 2:00 position) & that is all. Putting that directly in water repeatedly & then drying it seems certain to risk root rot.

I too get it's a cutting, but also doubt it's a Kalanchoe. I grow several & that's not their growth habit.

Pls take a pic of the whole thing sideways when it's out of pot if you keep doing that. Maybe we can correct the ID.

What you seem to be calling 4 stems at the bottom are LEAVES, no question, not stem, not root, but leaves.

This technique seems mighty odd, good luck.

I use both perlite & pumice tho' separately, in different mixes. I've never sifted the dust out, nor ever had any problem w/ it.

Kara, am surprised to hear you use both perlite & pumice together. Could you say why pls., as I thought they're serving the same function, I'd use one or the other. Isn't it sort of redundant (not that it's a problem, am just curious). TIA

Westes, can you see from the thick, fleshy stem & leaves this is some form of Crassula (family of Jade & Kalanchoe among other)?

That is further indication this cutting does not need water in order to root, it's carrying all the water it needs already in its fleshy stem & leaves. It doesn't need to be watered, you just think it does.

Don't know where you'd heard to root using fines. I doubt that would have been suggested around here.

@karen I made a typo and meant to ask should I remove the leaves.

There are no tiny little root hairs. If there were micro roots I would not have done the experiment.

Regarding what plant species this is, here is the original thread asking about species I started when I first received the plant.

Unfortunately, I did not notice at the time that I received the plant with root rot on the bottom of the main stem, and shortly after that it started to consume the plant rapidly.

Personally I'd sooner go w/that ID Crassula Arborescens, than Kalanchoe. But it is harder to tell since it's not a large plant, either way, issues are the same. Thx for trying w/ the ID.

I wouldn't remove those leaves, see no reason to, doubt it would speed things up.

Karen I was going through pumice like it was going out if style;). That was truly the main reason why I started buying perlite again. But then I noticed the perlite really lightened the load. Not so heavy and dense. I feel like the perlite is great for aeration and the pumice is good at water retention. Personally I like the particles in my mix all different sizes. The pieces of pumice are slightly bigger than the perlite.

Westes, I know you don't like the look of pumice, but give it a try. It's really wonderful. Pumice is one of the best things you can use in your mix. I can understand not using it because it's too expensive, but not because of esthetic reasons. There is so much info out there on how great it is and you have it so readily available;).

I really enjoy bonsai and admire the people that can do it well. A man named Micheal Hagedorn does really amazing bonsai. He used turface in his mix before using pumice. Check out these two pics from this blog Life without Turface Mr. Hagedorn wrote.

This is a pic of Pine tree roots planted in a Turface mix for 5 years.

Below is Pine roots planted in a mix of pumice after 3 years.

I know bonsai and succulents are not the same thing, but their mixes are definitely in the same vein, and we all want great roots. Amazing roots below equal a beautiful plant up top;). I mean come on who's lookin at the mix when the plant is stunning;).

I don't filter my pumice, definitely do rinse and strain the two to get rid of any dust.

It would make life easier if you put the cutting in pumice and water like normal. Give the plant the opportunity to dig and anchor itself with some good roots. The way you're watering is very counterproductive. I know people have already told you this, but we aren't just saying it just because we feel like it;). At first I didn't realize that's how you were watering that little guy. Doesn't surprise me one bit that there are no fine roots. How could there be the plant never has a chance to grow them. Roots need at least a few hours to absorb water. I can't imagine they absorb anything within a few minutes. That could be why the plant is absorbing the bottom leaves.

I'm not trying to tell you how to do anything. They're your plants do what you want, but I'm just trying to help you see the other side of the coin;). If you take anything away from all these comments it's just to leave your plant be and give it a chance in pure pumice and water like normal once the mix is dry. I'm sure you will start to notice a huge difference in root growth;).

@kara I will replant it in pumice.

I don't suppose pumice dust has any use? My pumice has a lot of dust I filter out, which I hate throwing out in the yard.

Can't you just throw the dust in the trash?

I do sift out the finest from my C&S mix & either save for seedling (which I rarely grow) or simply discard in trash. While I try to recycle whatever I can, peat dust goes in my trash, I forgive myself that much.

Thx Kara, for explaining. I use the perlite w/ my tropicals & save the pumice for my C&S. (I used to have a friend who supplied me w/ fabulous pumice.) Guess I consider them both for aeration, I wouldn't have though pumice retains much water, being so porous.

Here is a chart from Kevin - ewwmayo, showing Water retention - porosity of different media:

Pumice and perlite are very, very close. Pumice at 28% and perlite at 25% = not much difference there.

Westes

When I sift perlite or any other substrates, anything that is too small goes onto compost heap. If you have garden, maybe you can do the same?

I've never sifted anything. Is this going to be a problem? Much of the smaller stuff tends to go the bottom of the bag, although I'm sure dust doesn't. I use some Perlite fines for seed sowing.