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Large remodel / addition -- designer woes

8 years ago
last modified: 8 years ago

We are really struggling here. We have a split-level home that needs extensive renovation/addition. (I.e., tear down a large portion of the structure (essentially the whole current main floor), rebuild + add on about 1500 sq ft total for the new main floor, add a new 750 sq ft bonus room over the old single story portion, 900 sq ft of deck, and 700 sq ft of attached garage/workshop -- a big job, to be sure.) We have drawn out a floorplan and elevations that we like using Punch software. It is very detailed including window and door sizes, fixtures, cabinets, roof pitches, etc. We have a good grasp of what footers we can reuse, what load bearing walls can stay vs go, etc. We understand, however, that we need help to fully understand rooflines, work out the engineering loads, etc. The builder we spoke with recommended a designer who met with us, accepted our $2000 deposit on a $6000 fee, and was supposed to essentially redraw what we've come up with, plus, of course, give us suggestions for improvements. He said that overall, our plan was a pretty good one, with just a couple areas of concern. He said he should have something for us to review within 2 weeks. Well almost 3 weeks after cashing our deposit check, we learned yesterday that he hasn't even begun work on our job. A few questions about this:

1. Is $6000 excessive, when we've already come up with the basic design? Is there a way to save money on this? It stings to have labored for over a year to come up with a design we like, and then pay this much money to someone to redraw it and polish it up. (yes, I understand there is more to it than that)

2. I'm annoyed that we've been waiting around and he hasn't even begun. Should be request a refund of our deposit and find another designer? And if so, how should I go about finding one? We really want someone with will work with us and let us be very hands-on with the process.

3. Is there any way possible that we could just create our own construction drawings, and skip the designer? Is that completely insane? It feels a little scary to me, but I'm so tired of being jerked around. (There is an 18 month history of getting jerked around by a different builder and architect, prior to this latest installment of the saga.)

We have done lots of big renovations and building projects in the past, but they've all been DIY. This is the first time we're using outside professional help, so we're learning the ropes on this stuff. It's hard to know whom to trust.

Comments (17)

  • 8 years ago

    Designer?

    You need a licensed architect.

    Have you done the cost comparison of remodel/addition VS teardown (new build)?

  • 8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Sell that boondoggle and move. Or plan an entire teardown. There is zero way that this isn’t a black hole financially. A remodel of that scope will cost more than it did to buy the house originally.

    3 weeks is a very short time in the world of construction. Especially since it’s booming big time. 6 weeks would be more realistic for a first rough draft. Or more. It depends on how many amateur mistakes need to be solved before it can even get to a first draft. And that is if the drafter has creative talent. If there is no creative talent on board, and you’re just dealing with a stenographer, then nothing can overcome that deadly combination.

  • 8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Complete teardown isn't an option -- it's a waterfront home, and building a new home would not be allowed on this location on the lot, but adding on to an old one is. The previous licensed architect we worked with last year was a complete joke -- he drew things that were impossible to put a roof over, completely ignored was was already existing, and drew things that weren't even to scale. What a nightmare.

  • 8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    You went from the frying pan to the fire. Your are going to need drawings for permits. Who is allowed to do that in your jurisdiction? This will not be even close to an inexpensive project.

  • 8 years ago

    I think we have to keep at least 50% -- but since we're living in it, a complete teardown isn't very practical anyway. We bought the place because of the amazing lot, knowing the house needed serious work. But this is our "we're going to die here" house, so we're willing to put the time and money into it.

  • PRO
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    I had a "we're going to die here" house too. Not that I thought I was going to live there a long time, more that I almost died while living there.

    Sorry to hear about your design experiences. I like to think there is less of a chance of something going wrong with a licensed architect, and I still think that, but unfortunately we're not all created equal.

    See if you can find a local reputable architect that has experience in waterfront homes (I know of one but I assume you are not in Michigan). Talk to other builders of project similar to yours, local building departments, owners of other projects like yours, or lumber yards.

    The amount of the design fee is related to the complexity of the project, but you generally get more bang for your buck with a true professional than a designer.

    Talk to your current designer about terminating your relationship, it may be over their head.

    Your building department will dictate if your drawings are sufficient to guide the construction, they may require sealed drawings by a licensed professional.

    Edit: I move a sentence to make more sense in finding another architect.

    Marker6 thanked Mark Bischak, Architect
  • PRO
    8 years ago

    "...when we've already come up with the basic design? Is there a way to save money on this? It stings to have labored for over a year to come up with a design we like..."

    Here's the dilemma in a nutshell. A consumer who has done DIY work, spends a long time laboring over a floor plan, invests much personal time and effort and falls in love with it, in large part because they spent a lot of time on it.

    Then...they take it to a builder who knows a guy...a drafter guy...who says the plan was "a pretty good one with just a couple areas of concern"...

    Does this sound familiar? Have we seen this situation in previous threads? Have we learned (yet) that drafters almost never have any critical judgment or experience, and simply "draft" what they are handed and put some roof trusses on top to keep out (most) weather?

    To the OP, I sympathize and am sorry you are in a predicament. Into the third week, however, is hardly a major issue, compared to those ahead of you. Based on your description, you may have a great many more serious challenges ahead with your project, both schedule and financial, not to mention functional and aesthetics.

    You've received very good (albeit painful) advice above. Since this is going to be your "forever" house, you'll want to do things properly and best, and only do them once.

    Here's my advice: 1) get your deposit back for the "designer"; 2) check with your building jurisdiction to see how much of your existing house is permitted to be removed as part of an addition; 3) demolish the maximum possible; 4) rent an apartment for construction; 5) Find and use the very best and most experienced architect you can find (remodel design and construction is the most challenging, and there's always a bunch of "oops" involved); 6) Have a contingency fund and expect delays; 7) Find the best and most experienced builder you can and use a cost plus contract, with a not to exceed sum; 8) Do not have any allowances in your construction contract; design and specify everything before bidding and construction.

    Good luck!

  • PRO
    8 years ago

    THAT ^ ^ ^ ^ is good advice!

  • 8 years ago

    Do what Virgil said. It's good advice.

  • 8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Virgil is correct. That is the only way to approach this project. Or, don't even tackle it at all. Find a different forever house with less wrong with it and just buy it. It will be cheaper.

  • PRO
    8 years ago

    Split levels are the hardest remodels to do well. Virgil's advice is sound especially about finding another place to live while this is going on. You will not believe the dust, noise and disruption to you and your family and you will slow the project down.

  • 8 years ago

    Virgil's advice - ESPECIALLY ITEM 4 - is perfect.

  • 8 years ago

    Absolutely agree with Virgil.

  • 8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    It sounds like your builder's designer is not an architect and is in over his head. Do like Virgil states...you will come out ahead in both the short run and the long run. IMO you have the perfect opportunity to get your $2k deposit back since he hasn't started yet and even if you don't get it back, don't throw good money after bad. You need a builder and architect that know what they are doing, not a designer/builder that are feeling their way around using your home as a learning experience.

  • PRO
    8 years ago

    Just because I think it needs mentioning:

    An "architect" is a licensed professional, regulated by State law. As part of that licensure that person is required to have a certain amount of initial formal education, experience and training, pass an extensive exam, and engage in continual education. This creates a common thread to most all architects that bring their services to the level of a professional.

    A person that designs buildings that is not an architect as defined by law may have a wide variety of background influences that guide them to what they do and there is no common thread which guarantees the level of services they provide.

    Please, do not use the term "architect" with anyone other than those that are licensed by the state; and if you are going to engage someone that claims to be an architect check with your State's regulatory agency to make sure they are licensed.

    Thank you, this concludes the public service announcement.

    Marker6 thanked Mark Bischak, Architect
  • 8 years ago

    Thanks Mark! Unfortunately, the architect we started with, who was so awful, is indeed licensed by the state. This new person (the designer) has CPBD, AIBD, and CAPS certs but is not an architect (and doesn't claim to be one).