It's porcelain tile essentially. I doubt it would be very effective.......trying to heat/ compete with the air of all outdoors. Though it may warm your toes. Consult the mfg.

You might want to take a look @ This

Do you mind me asking why you don’t like IR heat? I was thinking of adding it to our porch.

I think this is just funny we have a huge deck live in S. B.C. and have never thought to have heated floor on the deck we use one propane heater in the early fall but heating the whole town to keep my feet warm seems really silly solar or not.

IR heat always feels uncomfortable to me because it comes from one direction and so it bakes you on one side and you can still be cold on the other.

It will be our fallback position.

Is this deck being built on ground or high above ground which I’m sure you would have to lay cement to add the radiant heat and protect the deck.

Maybe this can help

http://www.deckmagazine.com/design-construction/decking/thermally-modified-decking_o

We can't have a canopy unfortunately because of HOA issues. We tried.

I like the idea, never seen it before. Would love to see how it goes

Trying to heat an exterior material with no thermal isolation from the exterior is fruitless and would be financially prohibitive. You could not possibly have enough solar panels to offset that huge energy drain. Think Bic lighter trying to heat an aircraft hanger. As soon as heat is produced, the ambient air will remove it.

Outdoor heating=infrared. Like from overhead electric fixtures or the propane fixtures that look like streetlights/long stemmed mushrooms. You might be able to plumb natural gas connections if what we all know as "propane" heaters as at restaurants and home patios are available in natural gas versions.

I know some people who have gas fireplaces or gas fire pits outdoors. If there's a breeze or any wind, the heat dissipates quickly unless you're directly downwind from them.

OK, so my plan is to just do IR heaters then - I may still run the electric underneath for warm bare feet on our deck - it is cheap and I can just leave it off if it ends up being useless.

You haven't said where you are but If it's warm enough to be barefoot, you won't need to heat the deck surface. ( I live in NorCal too). I doubt if it's allowed in code to put radiant heaters facing upward under a deck, even a non-flammable one.

Solar or no solar, radiant electric heat uses a lot of electricity.

Electric heat outdoors? Hmmmm. I don't think an interior grade in-floor heating coils/mats will be happy outside. They tend to break/become a fire hazard if they are sitting on something that is flammable.

And the finishes do not like to have things hot, then cold, then hot, then cold. Sudden swings will shorten their life expectancy....by more than half.

Indoor flooring does NOT allow the radiant heat to be changed more than 5 Celsius (9 F) in a 24 hour period. Which means it can take 4 days to turn it "on" and 4 days to turn it "off". That's fine in a basement, but sucks if you want an exterior product to be more precise.

I was thinking HEAVILY insulated oil/gel tubing sunk into cement slab. This is kinda like how they heat the sidewalks/streets in Moscow and Helsinki - hot water/steam running through tubes underneath the streets = heated streets.

https://heyhelsinkiblog.com/tag/heated-streets/    This shows a great photo of what I'm talking about.

Electric would have to be properly insulated (against moisture intrusion) for exterior use...which makes the product and install SUPER expensive - regardless of how it is powered.

Good luck. I don't recommend this....but let us know if it works out for you.

I mean, this is all about taking the chill off on a cool day here in SF. Nothing heoric.

I figure code lets you have heated decks for snow removal in Tahoe, etc. So why not turn it down a bit and have comfortable feet?

The electricity use might be a bit too much and that is definitely a concern. I'd probably lay out a thermoreflective radiant barrier below it, a waterproof barrier like Noble Deck above it, and then put on the aluminum trays and porcelain tiles for the Sigmadek.

Since our deck is uncovered, IR heaters would only be on the walls on one side. So I am trying to figure out a solution that provides a bit more comfort.

I think I probably won't do it, but I wanted to explore the idea.

Undersurface hot water in pipes/tubes for snow/ice melting as with walkways and driveways/parking lots is at a much lower temperature than the heat of a radiant heater as close as it would be to the underside of a tile deck. All it needs to do is raise the surface temperature to above freezing and the cold stuff melts.

Think about it, a broiler coil in an electric oven is the same thing as an electric radiant heater and at distances up to like 10 inches it cooks meat. Electric radiant heaters are, I believe, significantly hotter and give heat up to many feet away.

If it’s that cold out, go inside. Problem solved.

In total agreement with sophie.

You owe me a new keyboard, Sophie!

"I figure code lets you have heated decks for snow removal in Tahoe, etc." Yes--BUT--decks and sidewalks are only heated to about 40 degrees, just enough to melt the snow. Plus, they are mostly used to prevent snow build up in the first place--while it's snowing. If you let snow build up in the first place, they are nearly useless.

None of those systems get warm enough for a human to feel warm.

You can get IR heaters on floor stands too. That way you could get heat from several sides.

In Piedmont, so a little bit warmer than the city on average. I'll just do IR heaters and make it work, heating the deck was just an idea.

Now back to the absolute hell of trying to find an HVAC installer who does Manual J and the rest.... I feel like I am taking crazy pills when the HVAC person says "huh?".

Yes, much warmer in Piedmont.

Stick to your guns about having a Manual J done. Also be prepared for duct work too, required for the permit and especially if yours is one of the older houses up there. Or if new, of course.

When recently replacing my furnaces and adding AC, I found a contractor comfortable enough to use Kentucky windage to downsize considerably rather than upsize. He decreased the main furnace with a new one with 35% less output (both the same efficiency) and installed AC also about 1/3 smaller than other bids had suggested. Two years later, It all works great.

Try this for insight and some suggestions on Manual J:

Load calculations

We have no ducts! :) They were all torn out and were massively undersized anyway. So we really need/want a Manual J/D/S as a minimum.

But I have a list of about 15 contractors who I have reached out to, 5 I've spoken to, and none do Manual J. I am really at a loss. It shouldn't be this hard IMO.

Anyway, if you are nearby - would appreciate anyone you could point me to that does comprehensive work.

This post makes me smile. I live in Canada, and when the kids left the outside door open too long my husband or I would holler Shut that door - we're not heating the whole of ~your city name here~

I'm south of you and the contractor I used doesn't go up that far. You do need the full treatment. Sometimes the energy raters/auditors do them, but not always. Or energy consultants. Or structural engineers/building science engineers. But unless someone isn't busy, a house may be too small a job to bother with

Do a google search for the following term - AOP residential HVAC talk-. It's a website where homeowners can only ask questions and only pros can respond. Get a username and password (free) and then pose your questions. I hope you'll get some referrals or ideas.

Most of the active posters are in the midwest or east. A few visit this forum periodically. There's one guy who's been active there in the past who I think is somewhere in the Central Valley - like Stockton or Fresno. He may know someone closer to you. There's another guy who loves doing Manual J calcs for people for free. But you do need more than that. In general, the contractors who are active there are post-Neanderthals and fully subscribe to the need to do real calculations.

Try it, tell us how it goes. Good luck.

At this point I'd almost pay someone extra to come from further way.

Already been on hvac-talk and called the two contractors on their map. One guy is in Concord but doesn't do installs anymore, just repairs. His website is amazing and maybe set my expectations too high.

The other one is in La Honda. So too far.

I've emailed professors of the local HVAC programs. I am talking to an energy consultancy this week.

Having sat for hours comfortably in a minus 42 F wind chill for a football game, toasty enough to remove my COAT entirely......

Yes minus 42. Layers, layers, layers.

May I just suggest you dress for the chilly deck? Skip the cotton, its useless.

I thought Manual J calculations (and others) are now required in California.

They are - but often they are still done poorly.

This guy is pretty awesome for what is going on and why...

http://highperformanceheatingandairconditioning.com/hvac-101/the-right-way-to-install/

@ Jan - ME TOO!!! I watched a Gray Cup game in Edmonton. Kick-off temps were -17 C. Wind was blowing 20km/h. By the end of the game it was - 23 C (-10F) with a windchill of -30 C (-22 F).

Let's just say several layers, some real sheep skin boots, a fur hat, proper sheep skin gloves and plenty of 'hot toddies' kept me nice and toasty. I don't remember getting home though:-p

I looked at his site and on Yelp, that guy is pretty awesome all right. Did he know anyone to recommend in your area? If he only does repairs now, he wouldn't have the metal shop to do the hard ducts that you really want to have. Too bad.

For you people who live in such very cold weather areas - that's a choice and not the only one.

We are putting in a heater in our covered deck. It will be overhead and flush with the soffits. I want to use the space year round and in Vancouver this will make it possible and lovely most of the time. Can’t wait

What about a fur coat for the chilly deck?

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/397653842089174580/