Kitchenaid KDTM404 and KDTM704. I have the Kenmore Elite version and love it. Self-cleaning filter and dry cycle options for 1 hour or 1.5 hours. Not all are willing to accept Europen-designed dishwasher limitations of narrow tines and filter that has to be cleaned. Another option is Maytag. They still have a soft-food disposer. TOL model has same dry characteristics.

All dishwashers nowadays require rinse aid for proper drying performance. They're engineered for it, even those that have heated drying need it. The drying heaters operate at lower wattages than in the past and may cycle on/off during the drying period instead of heating continuously.

Best way to find a machine that loads nicely with your dishes is take some items along for testing when shopping.

Sorry to hear about your Bosch. We bought one five years ago and love it. We brought with us to the store a gigantic tote full of dishes, pots, and pans. Forget what pictures show. You have to use your own dishes to see how they will fit. Our Bosch packs it in.

I have a friend who was recently commenting about what a pain rinse aid is. I don't understand why. When the add rinse aid light goes on about once a month, I pour in some Whole Foods liquid rinse aid. Pretty easy.

Also, do you run hot water at the sink before you start a load, and do you run your garbage disposal before hand as well? I've read these are tips that help make your dishes cleaner.

Colette,

Apart from your dishes not fitting, I am going to guess that your unit is not installed correctly. Can you take some pictures of the hoses from the dishwasher under your sink? When you say it does not clean well, what detergent and rinse aid are you using? Have you cleaned the filter in the unit? A picture of the filter would be helpful too. What is the model number of your unit? If you want some help to diagnose the problem, you will receive a lot of feedback from current owners. I am sorry you have been experiencing this for two years.

Good luck!

I hate to say it, but my Bosch works for me. Yes, things don't fit very well and I'm considering replacing the bottom rack, but it cleans and dries wonderfully at my house. I also don't have any smell problem and every time I go to empty the filter, there's almost nothing in it.

I've heard people say good things about KitchenAids.

If your DW smells, there is something wrong and it needs repair. Things we have seen on this forum that could cause that: the waste hose does not have a "high loop" installation which means that dirty backwash is either sitting in the hose, or coming into your dishwasher. The hot water may not be hooked up - it's amazing how many people have discovered they are not washing with hot water all that time. Or, the spray arms may be stuck or plugged and not spraying the dishes.

I echo the others that say use rinse aid. It's cheap and easy. Your DW needs it.

I had purchased a Miele in 2010 and never had any issues with it. All my dishes fit in it, cleaned well, and dryed fine for most items (expect some types of plastics and Tupperware). Earlier this year the Circulation Pump Motor went out, and parts and labor to repair would of been close to $1000, so decided to replace it.

I looked at the Bosch 800 and Benchmark models, and just didn't like them. My stuff didn't fit well in the racks. So went and looked at Miele again and Asko. I liked both of those much more. But ended up with a Miele again (Crystal G6625SCU) since I was able to get it for a few hundred off list price (new in box). I've had it installed since last Friday. It cleans just as well as the previous Miele, is a bit quieter, has more features, and after the drying mode the door opens to allow for better evaporation.

I second the Kitchenaid recommendation. I installed the 404 last week and dare I say it...I’m in love with a dishwasher. In spite of my well water, dishes come out sparkling and dry, and I’ve broken my lifelong habit of pre-rinsing. The interior allows numerous different configurations to suit your needs. I don’t have personal experience with Bosch, but the salesman I buy all my appliances from mentioned that he has a Bosch and girlfriend has a Kitchenaid. He said they were comparable in quality and performance, but that he finds the Kitchenaid much easier to load. Even my husband, who tends to randomly throw things in the DW which I then have to rearrange, commented on the easy loading.

Hard to say what your problem may be but it sounds like it may be something other than the Bosch DW itself. I have a 15 year old Bosch and a one year old Bosch and they both perform beautifully. I don't have a problem fitting things in but I don't think I'm as particular about that as some people are. Unlike many, I was underwhelmed by my very expensive Miele and I don't recall anything superior about fitting my dishes in it.

Our Bosh works great.

No suggestions for a new DW, but I will say that we bought a very nice, quiet Bosch, but it didn’t clean and smelled so bad I was embarrassed when guests opened it up. Since it was only a couple years old when we redid the kitchen, much to my chagrin we decided we had to keep it for budget reasons. BUT since the contractor reinstalled it after the renovation it washes beautifully and doesn’t smell at all. Turns out the appliance store’s installer didn’t do it properly.

I love my new Bosch. Have no problems loading it...dishes come out spotless and it is so quiet!

I had some cleaning and smell issues early on but once I switched to Finish gel pacs, orange scent, the problems went away. We also run the water hot at the sink before starting the DW. I learned this tip from our appliance repair man when he came to repair our KA many years ago. We continued the practice with our Kenmore and now our Bosch.Definitely check that it was installed correctly because that could also be cause.

Good luck!

Maytag makes a nice top control dishwasher, model MDB8959SFZ. It does not have a Maytag brand, name tag on the front and it has a recessed handle so it will match better with other brands of kitchen appliances. There is a small, 10 year warranty badge on mine, on the top left corner. I've read the small warranty badge can be easily removed, although I haven't removed it on my dishwasher. The 10 year warranty is on the racks, chopper blade, stainless steel tub and inner door liner.

It does not smell bad and I use Lemi Shine appliance cleaner once a month to help keep it clean. It has a food chopper in it so you don't have to clean a filter. It has heated dry and uses rinse aid and does fine with drying the dishes. The tines are not close together so dishes are easy to load. The stainless front is finger proof resistant so it helps it stay clean on the front. The top rack is adjustable and the top and bottom racks have ball bearing wheels so they operate smoothly. Here's a link if you want to take a look at it.

We purchased an 800 series Bosch in Oct. 2018. I hate it but not because it doesn’t clean. Other than dinner plates and glass ware, I cannot load other items like 9x13 pyrex dishes, cutting boards etc. etc. etc. There is no where to place to put them in the dishwasher. I use several cutting boards everyday because I cook. It does not make sense with the design of the tynes. I hate this so much we will be getting a kitchen aid!

My cutting boards fit on the bottom on the sides. They are thin and not too large.

I bought the flexible silverware basket and I really like that I can move it around and it allows me to put a 9x13 where the long silverware basket used to sit. I really like this dishwasher.

We had a Bosch in our old house and I struggled to fit the dishes in it. I hated it. We bought a different model Bosch with the remodel because we got a package and I love it! The dishes fit so much better and we have so much more flexibility. And it cleans well and is SO quite. Amazes me the same company made both!

I would take take the advice of the others and check your install, then maybe see if you can buy new racks If so try the racks that would fit in the store and see what works for you. I can tell you there are big differences in Bosch racks.

Following this as I know the world thinks Bosch is superb, but in my budget, the lower priced ones are not so great. The Maytag 8959 suggested above looks very promising and quite reasonable. ($548 at HD).

Hate my new 800 series, it's hard to load, does not clean well, the "adjustable" tines fall over when lightly touched and the "Time light" is useless because it does not stay on when load is finished. I have to use a post-it note so someone will not inadvertently add a dirty fork before you have time to put everything away. So frustrating!

Check out the Cove dishwasher. It is freakishly expensive but I’ve only heard good things.

That said, my KitchenAid is stainless inside and out and easily 25 years old. It works perfectly, knock wood.

Our Bosch had a horrible smell and then we had another plumber come and install the hose correctly and it’s magically been absolutely great ever since. I use plain white vinegar as my rinse aid: cheaper and does a great job. Been doing it for past 10 years. Get the hose issue fixed and you may be able to live with your Bosch. Good luck!!

I absolutely agree! I’ve had mine 6 months and HATE it for the same reasons.

we've been hating our new Bosch ever since we got it - had purchased an Asko but on the morning of installation the appliance dealer asked me to measure counter height and it was 1/2" too short so he swapped it for a Bosch because it would fit. When we began to notice it's terrible racks I figured he'd foisted off a dud on us then when I asked about it not rinsing dishes clean we were told you can Only use Finish brand, then when it started-to smell we started disassembling the drain filter and cleaning it regularly - but it still smells bad and even Shen we think we're rinsing the dishes they still come out w/dried on bits of who knows what. Really wishing I had insisted on my Asko - would much rather

rather live with a tilted counter!

I also passionately DESPISE the Bosch dishwasher that the developer of 'luxury condo' installed. It cleans well enough, but the racks are HORRIBLE - loading/versatility fitting the stuff in that it's supposed to wash - hate it. Hate it. Hate it. And, the rinse aid: if it's empty, the cycle goes from 2 hours to more than 2-1/2 hours. Hello - there are all-in-one dishwasher tabs that already have the rinse aid in them and Bosch thinks I need the liquid also? (My Bosch dishwasher heats water if needed, so while it is connected to the hot water line, I do not normally have my hot water heater on, and it does not affect the cleaning performance.)

Rinse aid (claims) in detergent products are ineffective IMO. Rinse aid goes into the final rinse. Detergent is gone down the drain by then.

"And, the rinse aid: if it's empty, the cycle goes from 2 hours to more than 2-1/2 hours. Hello - there are all-in-one dishwasher tabs that already have the rinse aid in them and Bosch thinks I need the liquid also?"

That's adjustable -- read your manual to find out how to program it to not need additional rinse aid. (Personally, I hate the all-in-one tabs, but until I found tabs without rinse aid, I had my dishwasher programmed that way).

March 31-2022. I bought the premium model Bosch dishwasher and have nothing but problems with it---basically that the soap door does not open and after that happens the machine just stops

and I am left with a washer full of dishes. The E25 code comes up that says the drain filter is clogged. That is BS--because I have cleaned the dishes before putting them into the dishwasher. So I just use the DW as a de-greaser--that's all---so there is NOTHING, no food, on the dishes at all to "clog" the drain. Besides I have cleaned the drain a few times (which is hard to do with all the water there) and never find any food there. :-( A factory repair man came and had to reprogram the software that was causing a problem, But NOW the problem has returned. And I can't get through to customer service as they put you on hold for 4 hours. i have to call them at 1AM in the morning to get through to them. :-( This is a sick way to run a business. I am seriously thinking of just putting this new machine out into the trash and buying an American DW.. I tell everyone at LOWES looking at dishwashers to NOT buy a Bosch DW. they must have a quality control problem because not all of their dishwashers are this bad.

If you buy a Bosch DW you might get a lemon that Custom Service will not replace :-(

The E25 code could be from when it was installed the drain hose was pinched, or there is a blockage at the disposer if you have it hooked up to one. It is very common to see an installer not remove the disposer plug or not be very careful to not pinch a drain hose.

Easy test to do is disconnect the drain hose under your sink and put it into a bucket. Then do a cancel cycle and that will start the drain pump. If it drains well your hose is not pinched and the blockage is at the disposer.

I have a Bosch 800 series DW. The odor issue - after inspecting the line, cleaning the filter and interior of the DW, using a dishwasher cleaner every couple of months, and using a rinse aid with each load - as an experiment, try rinsing the dishes first before putting them in the DW. Then, instead of using the Crystal Dry function, about an hour after the cycle ends, open the dishwasher, toss the excess water that collected on any of the glassware/coffee cups, and then leave the door slightly open overnight to let the dishes air dry. I prop the door open with a folded pot holder. My theory (don't know for sure) is that the Crystal Dry granules absorb food odors and then release them back into the DW cavity. Yes it's extra work, but it got rid of the odor issue, and the dishes are dry by morning and ready to put away.

Absolutely love our Bosch dishwasher!!

We can fit even more because I took out the silverware holder on the bottom and we only put silverware on the top 3rd shelf which is perfect.

My Kenmore Elte gave up the ghost last May after 5 years. I ended up getting a Bosch 800+ model because no KitchenAid models that I wanted were available. Fortunately, my everyday dishes are 60 year/old dishes that have ordinary sized everything that fits very well in the Bosch racks as opposed to contemporary dishes that have huge cereal bowls and other bowls used for eating that are big, awkward and take up/waste a lot of space. I don't rinse but I scrape well. Dishes sit for 3-5 days to accumulate a full load. Right now I have a dish that was used to bake/roast a very large bone-in chicken breast 4 days ago. I jus made sure all the extra grease was out of the pan. Also remnants of marinara sauce & pasta 4 days ago too. I'll finally run the dishwasher tonight. 95% of the time my cycle settings are Auto/Crystal Dry/Sanitize. From day 1, I activated the Extra Dry option. I now have the kind of dry dishes that 1960s and 1970s KitchenAid dishwashers produced without them being baked dry. I use Finish Max-in-1 or Finish Quantum tablets/pods (depending upon heavy soil level) and rinse aid set at one setting lower than factory default setting. I also squirt in a little bit of Cascade Complete gel for the prewash. I have no odors between loads or after the dishwasher is finished and emptied the next day.

Boba1 - I do hope we have your experience 😊 Our Kenmore Elite is on its last legs, albeit we have had over 12 years. Just purchased a Bosch 800 yearerday. We were going to go Miele or Cove but supply issues created complication and the Bosch was available. Fingers crossed that we will be satisfied. Funny, we too have old dishes - classic restaurantware from the 60’s, as well as a huge set of Fanciscan dinnerware. Sounds like maybe our old stuff will fit! 😄

We went from a 20 year old Frigidaire quiet cleen to a new Bosch 300 series a few months back. I think around 2019 Bosch changed their rack design, and made some nice improvements to their product lines. I see no issues with thick heavy diner plates and bowls. Even ovesized banquet plates. It use to take 2 days to fill the older American style dishwasher that had only 2 baskets and a disposal for auto clean, with heated drying. Was as quiet as a 50db unit, but the new Bosch is 44db and holds 33% more and takes 3 to 4 days to fill, while cleaning 200% better. I don't need to use the flexible twin flatware baskets, as I can load small items and all my flatware in the 3rd rack nicely.

I thought upgrading the flatware baskets would come in handy, but the upgrade to the flexible 3rd rack was the best overall. Though the myway 3rd rack would be better if, it were adjustable. Both have stong points but the adjustable 3rd rack is more versatile in the long run.

I just dont have a comparison with old style tines, other than with our old one, that's now replaced, which we had to bend tines every so often to hold various placements.

I have loaded plastic bottles by propping them up against each other with bowls along side to sturdy them. Being clear and tall, the cleaning is as good as by hand, and with fully loaded down the 3rd rack comes out 99% clean, with only the top rack water jets. Which is amazing, when the old washer had 85% cleanness with no 3rd rack.

I could have bought a more expensive brand with more features, but I have yet to see reason for it, everything fits and gets cleaned proper 1st try! Right now my only setting is automatic sanitized clean with bumped up drying, and slightly lowered liquid drying additive from default. Using the new Finish tablet with hard water additive, as it is cheaper than (Fairy Platinum - Casscade Platinum) cleans just as well if not better, with having the built in hard water softener additive.

For less than $470 scratch and ding sale, I made out like a bandit, having a slight crack on the finish along the top of the door, and with full warrenty as new. Without waiting on the order.

Note, some have reported Miele 3rd rack tines breaking. The Bosch has better tines on its plastic 3rd rack. The myway has all metal tines with a side mounted plastic flatware tray. All the plastics in the Bosch are of high quality durable plastics. Though the standard style long thin and double flatware baskets are thinly molded, being used primarily on lower end models. I can imagine the grates to keep flatware upright, may crack or break from wear, being the weakest design of their offerings.

Remember, the makes who have bells and whistles to make the best cleaning, often have issues with dependability over time. As the extra features are areas that will multiply the chances of failure.