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Stuck on a SINK!

8 years ago

I never thought I'd be so hung up on choosing a SINK! I really need to let my KD know today what we're going with. Currently, we have a Shaws Classic by Rohl fireclay sink in our design -- 33 inch single basin farmhouse. Our cabinets will be painted white and the new "Sea Salt" color by Medallion seems to match the sink perfectly. My husband and I truthfully prefer the look of a stainless steel farmhouse sink, but are worried about the obvious: scratching and constant smudges being shown. However, with fireclay I am concerned about always having to be overly cautious with my pots and pans (even with the metal grate in the bottom), as well as the potential for cracking and staining down the road. Our other choice is to go with a plain old under-mount stainless sink.


Help!?

Comments (51)

  • PRO
    8 years ago

    I think with any farmhouse sink you have to be careful of buttons or belt buckles scratching the front of the sink. As for the inside you should use a sink grid to protect the bottom from scratching.

    IMO a stainless apron sink takes the look to less of a farmhouse look, so it depends what you are going for.

    I do like the sea salt cabinet, opposed to the one on the right.

  • 8 years ago

    I personally wouldn't go with the stainless. That's my opinion. I'm not a stainless fan for some reason. The look in that picture is stunning. If that's what yours will look like, you've nailed it!

  • 8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Barnes, I completely agree with you!! I guess that's partly why I'm so torn... my style is more traditional, not necessarily farmhouse. I think either sink would ultimately work in our space, but I worry that the white farmhouse will look dated in a few years. Parts of me feel like a white farmhouse sink is TIMELESS and classic, but sometimes I feel like it's just the fad right now. I just don't want to look back in five years and wish I would have done something different...

  • 8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Colbran, thank you! I can't take credit for the design--it's one of the kitchens set up in their showroom, but I agree it looks amazing!!!! I love the contrast of the gray cabinets! We're going with white, so parts of me think, geez, is it going to be TOO white!?

  • 8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    I don't like the look of stainless farmhouse sinks myself and I don't think it will age well whereas I think a white apron sink that is appropriate for the rest of the kitchen's style will be fine over time. They will likely have their popularity fade at some point (some would argue that's already happened) but will still look like they belong. Who knows though... As for the scratching, like most things that develop "patina" the first few scratches are painful but eventually you get enough and they all blend with one another.

    I personally think enameled cast iron (i.e. Kohler Whitehaven) is the way to go with farmhouse sinks for durability and ease of install.

  • 8 years ago

    I get what you're saying, for sure. I'm not one to ask about plain white...I have a farmhouse copper sink with a low divide ready to be installed. I'm color all the way, so can't relate to white in any way, shape or form! That said, there are ways to pop color besides in cabinets and sinks, which you are well aware of (handles, paint, countertop). I'm not farmhouse either, but I'm still using an apron sink. I'm more rustic/Craftsman/arts and crafts (if that style even exists). That said, what is your countertop? Maybe that will help in the overall picture in our minds....

  • 8 years ago

    Ohhh the counter! That's my next hurdle. But, surprise surprise, it'll be on the white/lighter side too! I'm going for a marble-looking counter that isn't actually marble. I have some quartz contenders, but nothing set in stone yet. I've decided the maintenance of marble is just too much for our lifestyle, but we love the look of it. And our backsplash will be your basic subway tile, also white. Our flooring will be dark hardwood though, so there's that!

  • 8 years ago

    I will also add, we like Mont Blanc Quartzite which has more gray variations!

  • 8 years ago

    Have you looked at the Blanco Silgranit sinks? I believe they have a white, apron front design...

  • 8 years ago

    Here's some pics with white sinks, white cabinets, stainless sinks, white countertop, subway tile. Gives you an idea anyway!


    Wellesley Renovation · More Info

    Transitional White Kitchen in NY · More Info

    New England Coastal Home · More Info

    Transitional Kitchen · More Info

    Lake Minnetonka Tailored White Kitchen · More Info

    San Jose Res 2 · More Info

  • 8 years ago

    Thanks!! They are all so beautiful! Hopefully I can narrow it down today! Sometimes I think just doing a SS single bowl under-mount is my safest bet... we have stainless now and I've never had an apron front sink. I guess I wouldn't know what I'd be missing -- right? :)

  • 8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    I have the Silgranit Ikon apron front sink, love it, I would be the first person to scratch up a stainless apron with a belt buckle or something, but nothing seems to faze this tough sink, still looks like the day it was installed.

  • PRO
    8 years ago

    From our blog:

    Farm sinks discussed at the end.


    Single Bowl, Double Bowl, or Bowl and a Half Sink?

    Most kitchen designers agree that a true double bowl sink is the least practical of the three choices. Both double bowl sink bowls are smaller than a standard small single sink so while you do have two bowls neither will be comfortable using to clean large pots or trays. If you need two sinks the sensible choice is to make sure at least one bowl is 21 1/4″ wide. The smaller of the two sinks is usually reserved for the garbage disposal so that it is available if you have dishes in your primary bowl. Large single bowl sinks are more popular today than multi bowl sinks primarily because nearly everyone in the US has a dishwasher. Contrary to what many people believe modern dishwashers use far less water than washing dishes by hand and also use very little electricity especially if you don’t use the drying cycle. So having an extra large sink to scrub the large pots and pans that your dishwasher can’t get clean makes sense.

    Drop-In, Under Mount, Integrated, or Farm Style Sink?

    Drop in sinks only make sense if you have a laminate or tile countertop. Since Main Line Kitchen Design hasn’t had a customer select either type top in 5 years we will not go into drop in sinks in detail. Solid surface countertops such as stone, man made stone, acrylic, or concrete all use either an under mount sink, and integrated sink or a farm sink. These type sinks have no lip and so you can wipe spills right into your sink. Under mount sinks can be enameled, acrylic or metal. The most common under mount sink by far is a stainless steel under mount. These sinks will wear the best and require no maintenance. If you are choosing a stainless under mount sink a 16 gauge sink is the best choice. 16 gauge is thicker than the more common 18 gauge. Never use any gauge higher than 18.

    Under Mount Copper Sink

    For color and style reasons enameled and acrylic under mount sinks can be attractive. With acrylic sinks like Corian be careful not to pour boiling water into a sink with ice in it. The temperature change can crack you sink. With enameled sinks avoid cast iron pans as they can scratch and chip your sink.

    Corian Top and Sink

    Integrated sinks are acrylic sinks built right into an acrylic top, so there are no seams to collect grime. And just like with the sink the top itself will have no visible seams although the sinks need to be a solid color while the tops can be any pattern. Corian is the most popular acrylic but there are a countless number of other brands and the difference between acrylics is simply the colors available. Be careful using wavy patterns like Corian’s Camel as this will make seams quite noticeable when the pattern changes turning a corner and so defeats one of the advantages of the acrylics.

    Be careful using composite sinks like Blanco’s “Granite” sinks. These sinks have failed in the past and have no warranty that they won’t turn grey as many did 1o years ago. If you want a composite type sink, a Quartz sink is the better choice as the resin used to fabricate the sink is less likely to have issues. The advantage of these type sinks are their unique shapes.

    Farm Sinks

    Farm also called apron sinks have become very popular and can be quite beautiful. There are some disadvantages to farm sinks though that need to be considered. One common issue is that water tends to drip down the front of an apron sink and can ruin the finish on the top of the cabinet doors below the apron. Painted cabinet finishes are especially susceptible to water damage so wipe up drips immediately.

    Farm sinks are difficult for some contractors to install. All farm sinks are custom installed on site and require your contractor to build a cradle inside the sink cabinet to support the sink, and to cut the sink cabinet to size. In some less expensive cabinet lines the sink cabinet needs to be built from parts. Make sure your contractor is aware of his responsibilities and is capable of installing a farm sink.

    Enameled apron sinks can be cast iron or fire clay sinks. Enameled cast iron sinks allow the contractor’s cuts to be hidden by the sinks apron so their installation is easier. Fire clay farm sinks must be perfectly cut “scribed” into the sink cabinet. Fire clay although very durable can crack in an accident and unlike a chip in an enameled cast iron farm sink, a crack in a fire clay sink can not be repaired. Replacing the sink can cost several thousand dollars because the sink is built under the countertop. Because of this risk never use cast iron pans or bring heavy tools close to a fire clay farm sink.

    Soapstone Farm Sink

    Soapstone farm sinks and stainless steel farm sinks are the most durable. Be aware that soapstone custom farm sinks made from slabs will not drain like a normal sloped sink so you might want a one piece soapstone sink carved from a block. Bucks County Soapstone was the first fabricator to carry these sinks in our area but they are now available at other countertop locations.

    Shopping for a sink can be more involved than most customers are prepared for. Ask your kitchen designer about the right sink choice for your kitchen.

  • 8 years ago

    Hi Main Line! I read your review last week online- thank you! Very thorough!! I have looked at your website many times actually for feedback.

  • 8 years ago

    Your cabinet color looks great with that sink, so if you want an apron sink I would say the white is the way to go. If you are not confident you will still love an apron sink down the road, you might want to go with the undermount stainless.

  • 8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    The "belt buckle" scratching story, is bogus....still have never seen a picture of an actual scratch..I have a Kohler Whitehaven, and really enjoy. But I gave up wearing my "keep on trucking" belt buckle a long time ago, and at 6' 3" I would have to use the sink on my knees to scratch it..............

    Kitchen · More Info

  • 8 years ago

    I have a stainless farmhouse sink (Rachiele) and there is no scratching. I worried about that issue too- and someone here- maybe Joseph Coreltt said should the front scratch- which he said it would probably not- buffing the scratches out would be a cinch. No scratches in almost one year of having the sink- and I am not the only person who uses it. I have four tall sons who all wear belts :-)

  • 8 years ago

    Waco kid is right, I guess the belt buckle doesn't touch the sink, except maybe my youngest.

  • 8 years ago

    Apparently buckle scratching has happened at least once in Houzz history, with alleged photographic evidence of the culprit :)

    [https://www.houzz.com/discussions/scratch-on-kohler-cast-iron-apron-front-sink-dsvw-vd~2613440[(https://www.houzz.com/discussions/scratch-on-kohler-cast-iron-apron-front-sink-dsvw-vd~2613440)

  • 8 years ago

    Rita thank you, that’s good to hear! My contractor actually said the same thing about buffing the scratch. I want to go with something that’ll give me the least amount of maintenance. I know I will constantly be worried about the white. It’s GORGEOUS, but I feel like it would always make me more nervous than stainless! Neither one of us wear belts often so that’s not a huge concern of mine at all, with either sink.

  • 8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Another "bogus" no picture "belt buckle" scratch story from 2009...Maybe "Bigfoot" wearing a belt came in and did the dishes and then left, scratching up the sink.....

  • 8 years ago

    We just installed a single bowl white enameled cast iron undermount sink in our new home, the Kohler Riverby. I love it and can't wait to start using it. We've had a white enameled for the past 8+ years in our current house and I guess we have what some may call "scratches" left behind by pots and pans sometimes, but they are nothing that a magic eraser can't fix . To me, it still looks great. Stainless did not appeal to me, although I seriously considered it. I couldn't get past the sound of metal noises.

    We did a positive reveal so enough of the white sink is exposed and visible.


    Neither of us wanted an apron front. I don't know what the appeal is, except they are just popular on blogs. To me they give a country look, which I did not want.

  • PRO
    8 years ago

    Since you don't yet have countertops, why not do Corian "Rain Cloud", their marble look. Then do a big integrated Corian white sink. I've had mine now for 15 years and I do not baby it. My DD has had hers for about 12 years, and they totally abuse it. Both still look great. It's SO easy to keep clean and it always looks good. I love having a big single sink and I love the integrated feature - no place at all for crumbs, nasties to gather!!!!

  • 8 years ago

    its pretty hard, albeit not impossible, to mess up the enameled cast iron.

  • 8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Dr B, I keep seeing Kohler Whitehaven but I personally don't like the apron part. It looks too short, if that makes sense. I also prefer the non-rounded corners, and the Whitehaven has pretty rounded corners. I guess the benefit of enameled cast iron is, if it chips (depending on the chip, of course), it could be repaired. Unlike fireclay, if and when it cracks, you're pretty much SOL!

  • PRO
    8 years ago

    Kohler guarantees their cast iron not to chip/crack/burn. They also sell the Whitehaven with a short or tall apron option.

  • 8 years ago

    Oh I didn’t know that- thanks for the input!

  • 8 years ago

    I like my Kohler Whitehaven very much. I have the short apron because I kept my original cabinets and the short apron fits on a standard sink base cabinet while the tall apron requires a apron front sink base cabinet. I am short and my waistline is above the sink. The apron front sink is good for those that like to be close to the sink rather than reach over a space of countertop. The Whitehaven comes in Sea Salt color, though colors are more expensive. Also, the Whitehaven has been on backorder - the earliest I heard they would be back is in 45 days - heard that about a week ago. You should go to a showroom at a plumb supply shop to see the sink in person. I've always has cast iron and like the look, but others do not.

  • 8 years ago

    As above there are two sizes of apron with the short one intended to retrofit to standard cabinets. So maybe you are looking at the short apron version. The rounded corners are what they are.

  • PRO
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Main Line Kitchen Design:

    Excellent post with one small quibble:

    "Farm sinks are difficult for some contractors to install. All farm sinks are custom installed on site and require your contractor to build a cradle inside the sink cabinet to support the sink, and to cut the sink cabinet to size."

    This is true of new construction, but not of retrofitting apron sinks to existing countertops. In that case, the cabinet front is removed, the sink slid almost into place, the front reinstalled, and the sink put into final position. Dino Rachiele makes a retrofit apron front sink that requires no cabinet alterations, but does require new tops.

  • PRO
    8 years ago

    Quibble is sort of silly. That's a hypothetical and unusual situation that only applies to one in 1000 installs at best and not worth mentioning if not asked.

  • 8 years ago

    I would just go with an undercount stainless steel sink. Doubt that you would regret that choice. An unmount sink will allow for a tip out sink front which are great for stashing scouring pads and other etcetera that you don't want to look at all the time, too.

    I suspect the apron sink/ farmhouse sink trend is on the wain; it's getting pretty long in the tooth.

  • PRO
    8 years ago

    "Quibble is sort of silly. That's a hypothetical and unusual situation that only applies to one in 1000 installs at best and not worth mentioning if not asked."


    Well excuse the hell out of me, please.

  • 8 years ago

    Here's a picture of our Rachiele copper apron sink after a years none-too-careful use. No scratches, no drying or waxing, just use. The apron I use has a very large towel ring that always bangs on the front of the sink. I realize it's not white, but contrast can be nice and white does get dirty--especially in any scratches that you happen to get. Me, I like things that I can use without worry.


    Rachiele copper sink · More Info

    Rachiele copper sink · More Info

  • 8 years ago
    Go with undermount!
  • 8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    I would NEVAH choose my sink before my countertop! Why are you being pressured to choose a sink first? The countertop you choose will set the tone of the entire kitchen, and will help you decide on the sink look you want. E.g., if you were installing soapstone (I know you said quartzite, I am just giving an example), you might choose a very different sink than if you chose a swirly granite. I would tell my KD to chillax about the sink until you've decided on a countertop.

    I detest it when people are pressured into deciding important kitchen features "today".

    As a long-time Kitchen Forums person, I can tell you there are a ton of stories about fireclay apron sinks crazing over time. Unlike the belt buckle story where you can find, like, one verification of that, there are really quite a lot of people upset about their fireclay crazing. People seem really happy with the Kohler apron fronts; I'd look into those. The Rachiele sink that Jerry posted above is beautiful, but will be extremely expensive.

  • PRO
    8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    IMO the whole apron front sink thing will be one of those dated features very soon I think a good quality stainless undemount will stand the test of time and they look good with very little up keep. I have back to back stainless sinks in my island I run a catering biz from my home and I have never found the stainless is hard to keep looking nice.

  • 8 years ago

    Freida, the type of sink we choose dictates the type of cabinetry below. Some of the sinks out there can be installed with regular cabinetry, but not the two we like. I need to place my order for my cabinets as there’s an 8 week turnaround and we are on a pretty tight schedule. My counters aren’t chosen yet, but we are between 3 and they all look very similar with slight variations. I do love the Rachiele sinks though!!!

  • 8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    A couple of people have mentioned the Kohler Whitehaven sink. Make sure you look at the version with the "tall apron", as it also comes with a short apron. The only criticism I've heard about them is that the sides slope a little too much, but if you get one of their wider sizes, this is not a problem. Just something for you to consider.

    Kohler 2-minute video about apron front sink

  • 8 years ago

    I’m curious on your opinion, Joseph, and others, do you think Kohler has improved with durability over the years? I ask because my previous house had a Kohler black enamel cast iron overmount sink, from the original build, 1995. The previous owners seemed meticulous judging by the condition of most things in the house, but there was noticeable scratching and dulling of the finish around the drain. Wonder if that wear was particular to the darker colors, and if today’s sinks wear better.

  • 8 years ago

    Joe will probably answer you - but you are correct. The black shows scratches and any dulling of the surface much more than the white. I have a 20 year old white cast iron sink in my basement kitchenette - which spent the first 18 years in my main kitchen. It still looks good and bright white after cleaning. Over the years, scratches,and micro scratches will occur slightly dulling the surface, and these will be more visible on black. I do have the grids for my Whitehaven. The grids plus the use of gentler cleansers will help put off any scratches that can dull the surface.

    This is not a Kohler problem but the reality of dark colored enameled cast iron.

  • PRO
    8 years ago

    Cast iron is tough, but unlike stainless or acrylic, it can't be fixed once it's worn or chipped.

  • 8 years ago

    Thanks for confirming my theory on enamel cast iron, jhmarie. It seems to be the flip side of Silgranit, where darker colors wear better than lighter.

  • PRO
    8 years ago

    Farmhouse IS a fad and not everyone likes working in the big bowl. Go with the material and bowl configuration YOU like. Not to mention, should you go with a farmhouse sink now figuring you can change it out in a few years if you don't like it, you will have to get a new sink cabinet as a farmhouse sink requires special low-cut cabinet.

    Just pick something you like. There is nothing worse than spending money on your kitchen to then realize it is not functional for you.

    Good luck!

  • PRO
    8 years ago

    BTW - I have worked with Blanco Silgranite sinks and they are AWESOME. They are a granite composite, don't scratch/chip and don't scratch from pots and pans.(Lifetime guarantee) Get a sample and try it for yourself. They are amazing!!

  • 8 years ago

    Hi again! Thanks for the feedback, everyone! We ended up going the safe route (what we consider safe anyway), and we chose an undermount stainless sink. It’ll be a single bowl, so I’ll still get the size I want, but I just couldn’t justify the farmhouse sink. I had way too many concerns ultimately — fireclay, enameled cast iron, and stainless — they all have their pros and cons. I was afraid of cracking, crazing, chipping, staining, scratching, you name it. Not to mention the Shaws classic just blended way too much with our cabinet choice. It was SO much white!! I felt the safest bet was to stick with what we already know and are used to!! I’ve never had an apron front, so I suppose I won’t know what I am missing :) That said, there was nothing like standing at that Shaws classic! Felt so much better than standing at an undermount!!

    Thanks for your feedback everyone!!

  • 8 years ago

    I recently played it safe with a SS undermount. I regret it! I absolutely loooove a farm sink.

  • 8 years ago

    Apron front sinks have been used in Europe for 300 years and in the US for at least 30. I saw them on This Old House back in the 90s. Being a short person, I love being so close to the sink - I will search salvage yards someday if they are not around anymore, and I move and need a new sink. I know many who feel the same. There will be supply as long as there is demand.

  • 8 years ago

    I don't believe you'll have to worry about them going away. Like you say, they've been around for hundreds of years, so I wouldn't call them a fad.