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Seeking suggustions for full sun shrub to tree

8 years ago

Hello,

I wonder if anyone has suggestions of shrubs that can eventually be pruned into a small trees?

I live in the east bay of Northern California; zone 9b.

I live inland, I don't benefit from any coastal weather like Berkeley or Oakland.

The shrub-to-tree needs to be tollerant of direct sun.

This is my list thus far:

1. Cotinus obovatus "Smoke Tree".......I really like this tree. I see one growing just fine in my neighbors yard but I think she has an Asain species.

2. Cercocarpus betuloides var. blancheae "island mountain mahogany". -- this looks great but I can't find one for sale

3. Desert Museum Palo Verde....what is there to say. This is a gorgeous tree.

4. Howard McMinn artostaphylos.....I like them but aren't they slow growing?


I would prefer domestic plants, US native and ideally CA native.


I've been actively, obsessively gardening for just under 5 years.

I killed a ceanothos and uvi ursi (native) almost immediately upon purchase. I didn't know how native California plants feel about summer water. I won't lie, that experience punked me and I'm afraid to get a Native Oak.


I already have and don't need another:

Feijoa sellowiana

Cerces Occidentalis


I don't want a Fremontodendron "Flannel Bush"


Thank you for any input you have.

Comments (16)

  • 8 years ago

    Looks like I live in the same zone as you. I am in Livermore and converted my lawn to CA Natives in 2013. I have Cercis Occidentalis (Redbud) and Chilopsis linearis (Desert Willow) in my yard and both have done well in full hot sun. You can also prune both into nice looking trees. I have 4 manzanitas in my yard and yes, they grow slow. Dr. Hurd is a nice tree and if you are willing to wait for it to grow, would be a nice addition to your yard. Best to plant in the Fall, so you can take advantage of the rain and the cool weather. Water every 10-14 days deeply and let the soil dry out between watering. Keep this up for 1-2 summers. General rule of thumb is once the plant doubles in size or has gone through 2 summers. Be careful watering Manzanitas and Ceanothus in the summer. Both are susceptible to fungal pathogens that thrive in moist, warm soil. Once these plants are established, you don't need to water them in the summer, unless we are experiencing a drought.

    I buy my natives plants from the following places:

    East Bay Wilds (Oakland)

    Watershed Nursery (Richmond)

    Native Here (Berkeley)

    Friends of the Regional Parks Botanic Garden (Berkeley) - Awesome plant sales, twice a year in October and in March. They also sell plants during the week. Check out nativeplants.org for more info.

    Annie's Annuals (Richmond)

    Check out California Native Plants for the Garden by Carol Bornstein, David Frost and Bart )'Brien. This is a must have book. I refer to it often. Also, if you are in the Bay Area, check out the Bringing Back The Natives Tour. It takes place in early May, each year. People all throughout Contra Costa and Alameda County put their native gardens on the tour for people to view. In fact, my garden will be on the tour in 2019.



  • 8 years ago

    One more addition to my previous comment. Another really cool tree to look at is Arbutus Marina or Arbutus unedo. Not native but in the same family as the Madrone. Unfortunately, Arbutus menziesii, which is a CA native is difficult to grow, unless you have the perfect spot. It wants to start in shade and grow into the sun (like in a forest setting). Good resource to check out is the UC Davis All Star Plants at http://arboretum.ucdavis.edu/arboretum_all_stars.aspx


  • 8 years ago
    Embothrium, that is a great suggestion about the western sunset book. I rarely use it but I should. I’m looking forward to using it for refining my search.
  • 8 years ago
    Hi Kerry, yes we are in the same area. I’m just a few exits away in Pleasanton. I haven’t started on my front area as yet. I’m pretty slow. We shop at the same places! I find my Annie’s plants do great; better than others. I will add Santa Rosa Gardens for my native grasses of which I have many.
    I so want a manzanita. I just want one so bad. I’ll have to make the time for east bay wilds . I almost lost my cercis occidentalis to the Death Star sun so I’ve just got to keep trying. I’ve bookmarked your notes regarding caring for newly planted trees which I’m planning to do in the fall. In all honesty, I’m not nuts about the ceanothos anyways. Maybe I just haven’t seen enough of them. Thank you for the suggestions and advice. Planning is almost as much fun as planting.
  • 8 years ago
    Most CA natives do not like summer watering. Check Las Pilitas nursery for online catalog of natives! We are on the coast but in a sunny area and planted ceanothus Ray Hartman - check with LP for the best varieties for your zone, these are fast growing and thriving for us. They do not like too much water, definitely no drip, and no soil amendments. We planted and have mostly ignored - watered a couple times.

    We also planted toyon which can be pruned into a tree, and coffee berry which is definitely more of a shrub or hedge. Our dr Hurd manzanitas planted in January seem to be moderately fast growing with new growth and business already showing. I planted one (one gallon nursery plant) in Palo Alto in 2012 in intense full sun and it was over 7’ tall when we moved. I pruned it heavily because it was beside a pathway, and I basically ignored it.
  • 8 years ago
    Kerry I’m going to check out that desert willow. Just the weds desert and willow together sound good! Thank you
  • 8 years ago

    Also look at the Chitalpa. It's a Desert Willow/Catalpa hybrid. It's a little sturdier and it's sterile so you won't be pulling up seedlings.


    Don't feel bad about the ceanothus. I killed three Ray Hartmans in a row. The South Coast Blue planted in the same spot is growing like gangbusters. I have no idea what the secret is.

  • 8 years ago
    Tmnca, I like Las Pilitas. How many years between planting you manzanita and moving from Palo Alto?
    Did/do you get you Dr. Hurd from Las Pilitas?
    Im taking a timeout from ceanothus right now. I wasn’t ready for the lesson with CA natives and summer watering.I’m just now getting over the lesson and better with killing plants.
    I think I have two toyons; I’ll have to research bc I’ve always thought they were some sort of pittosporum. They came with the house and they are nice trees.
    Kerry, where did you get your manzanita? Did you install your front planting’s all at once or over time?
    This community is so ridiculously awesome. Plant people are the best!
  • 8 years ago
    Kerry congrats about the 2019 your, I’m sure you’ve worked really hard to achieve that goal!
  • 8 years ago

    I bought all my manzanitas as 1 gallon pots from Pete at East Bay Wilds. My Dr. Hurd is just about 5 ft after 5 years. It can get to be 15ft if it is happy. I hope it gets to be at least 8 ft. Everything was installed at once in the Fall of 2013.

    Regarding the desert willow, I have Timeless Beauty in my yard. It is on the smaller side - up to 15 ft. It doesn't reseed and seems to grow on the slower side. I guess it just depends on what your needs are in terms of a tree/shrub.

    I am making a note of your CA native grass resource. I have a few non-native grasses that I need to replace - thanks!

    If you ever want someone to come give you some advice on your yard, I can certainly drop by. I am not a design/professional architect, I am just passionate about native plants and will give any feedback for free. I can certainly tell you if you have a Toyon in your yard :)

  • 8 years ago

    Oh and all my plants are on drip and they do fine. I took out the drip emitters and plugged the holes on my Ceanothus and my Manzanitas after 2 years. I am currently losing a Valley Violet Ceanothus. I certainly know I didn't water it too much. It is recommended for the garden, so maybe it just wanted more water than I was willing to give it?? If I remove it, I won't replace it with another Valley Violet. I am a fan of Eriogonum fasciculatum and Sphaeralcea ambigua and probably will go with one of those to fill the hole.

  • 8 years ago
    JXBrown the Chitalpa is really pretty! Now that I see it, I recognize that someone in my neighborhood has one!! Exciting!! My goodness it is sturdy looking and definitely one I’m going to research more. It ticks all the boxes.....native, hardy, mid size and a bonus is that it flowers nicely. Thank you!
    I admire your tenacity about the Ray Hartmans. Those South Coast Blue look to be more structured. Nice arching branches so I’m sure must be enjoying it.
  • 8 years ago
    Kerry, you may want to confirm the grasses are CA native. They have a good number of US natives and a few CA natives also.
    Thank you for the offer on the free consult. There may come a day when I seek your help.
    I’m planning a complete install in the front at once as well. Although I want to get my home painted and some minor repairs done at around the same time. Thus it’s a logistics issue. I’m not in a rush.....enjoying the journey.
  • 8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Native or not they're all going to be coming out of watered container production operations, need to be kept watered until they root out well enough to be no longer dependent on the potting medium for moisture. Also with new plantings everywhere hot and dry weather occurs mulching is a critical tool for keeping the sun from baking the moisture out of the soil around recently installed selections.

    "Garden tolerant" etc. in regard to a ceanothus does in fact mean that it will take more summer watering than otherwise usual for the genus.

  • 8 years ago

    Parfianka pomegranate is my suggestion. Poms need heat to mature and this variety is a dwarf that can be trained into a small tree; precocious with outstanding fruit. Few to no pests and can be considered drought tolerant.