My fave butterfly in the whole universe is any sulphur. I grow host plants to attract them but the process has been slow. Question: for those of you that grow butterflies indoors, does that activity seem to attract more sulphurs to your gardens?

I can’t speak for the raising them indoors, but a couple of years ago I just had a few sicklepot Senna growing as weeds by my brush pile. After recognizing it as a host plant, I transplanted a few to my wild area. Last Spring, I added Wild Senna, a Christmas Senna and the seeds for Popcorn Cassia that Rhonda kindly sent me. The difference last Summer was dramatic. And it’s a lot better this year. The cloudless sulphurs are still late to show up (in numbers maybe 3 weeks ago), but I can see 10 of them at once.

Rhonda, thank you. I am thinking mine might be Cloudless Sulphurs?

I'm so happy to see that everyone is having success with the sulphurs this year!

Deb, if it's a female, she'll find your cassia, don't worry :)

Iris, great pics as usual. The green, yellow and blue cat looks like a cloudless sulphur cat. Could the solid green one be an earlier stage cloudless? It sounds as if you have a sulphur heaven in your yard...good for you and the butterflies :)

Bossyvossy, I don't think that raising the butterflies indoors makes more of the butterflies come to your garden but rather it ensures that more caterpillars survive and become butterflies so you have more to release into your garden.

Sultry, I think you're right. After Googling sulphur cats, your's and Iris' appear to be cloudless cats.

Rhonda, I think I am having a ton of sleepy orange. Still unsure with my identification skills with these guys though.

Have to add that I do know the adult cloudless sulphurs. And for some reason they have some weird attraction to my shoes. When I am out gardening I wear these green gargening clogs. Maybe not that green anymore, but they circle around like it is a host plant. Any idea if they go by color? I really should take a picture of this.

Iris, I can't wear on the ID either, I'm still learning my sulphurs. I'd love to see a pic of a cloudless circling your shoes. Maybe the shoes or your feet smell like cassia LOL

Rhonda, I was looking at my butterfly guide, and found out there is a West Indian Buckeye. This is different from the White Peacock. The West Indian Buckeye ranges into S. Florida, and also in the Keys going further south. It looks very similar to the common Buckeye, but the wing coloring is different. They use black mangrove as a host plant, but I've read they will also use other plants in the Verbena family. Pictures, top is West Indian Buckeye, bottom common Buckeye.

Rhonda said:

Bossyvossy, I don't think that raising the butterflies indoors makes more of the woods butterflies come to your garden but rather it ensures that more caterpillars survive and become butterflies so you have more to release into your garden

I didn’t pose my question properly. What I s/h asked is whether releasing more butterflies, as a result of raising indoors, has an effect on the outside population.

Bossy Voss,

The folks on this forum raise exclusively butterflies they have collected from the wild. So, the only effects this activity would have on other butterflies is to increase competition for food, and decrease risk of predation. These variations also occur naturally with changes in survival based on weather, predation on eggs, or parasites. The butterflies raised indoors are also protected from pesticides, so this practice compensates for man made losses of pollinators.

Ok, not the right sulphurs, but I thought I can add the picture here. Things are really crowded. And I have tons of plants.

I'm sure all five of those cats are sleepy oranges, Iris. Sleepy oranges are beautiful sulphurs, too!

Sherry

Tom from Clermont

Hey, Rhonda. To address your question--you won't increase the total number of butterflies in the world by very much, but you might well increase the number that are near to you, so you and your neighbors will see more beautiful butterflies.

Since we're discussing sulphurs, I'm going to try and post some of my old pictures from Photobucket. Pink cloudless sulphur chrysalis -

Pink CS Chrysalis

Yellow cloudless sulphur chrysalis -

Yellow CS Chrysalis

Previously green cloudless sulphur caterpillar that had started eating yellow flowers, and was changing to the yellow form -

Green/Yellow CS Cat

Sherry

Sherry, I don’t care what kind they are, but they don’t match the title of this thread. It’s just the number of caterpillars that is baffling me. I have planted the sicklepot in all kinds of spots that are kind of wild (transplanted from the grass area that is getting mowed). This was a group of 5 about 4 feet tall plants. It’s down to almost nothing but the seedpots. The other areas don’t look much better.

Sherry, beautiful pictures!

My daughter moved most of the caterpillars to greener pastures today. 123 of them and one looper to be exact. No wonder the plants looked so bad!

Rhonda, any new babies to take care of?

Jay, that Buckeye is beautiful. Thanks for the pics.

Bossy Vossy, Doc Mom provided a great response to your question. I have noticed an increased population of butterflies in my garden since I have been raising and releasing them. Of course, they do fly away and check out the neighborhood, but I have many more host and nectar plants than anyone in my community, so I like to think they prefer my yard :)

Tom, Bossy Vossy asked the question, I was responding :) Thanks for your input and glad to see you back posting. How's it going in your gardens? Still lots of butterflies and hummers?

Oh my goodness Iris! that's a lot of cats! I hope you have enough plants to feed them. If I had that many, I wouldn't be bringing any in...the lizards would certainly leave quite a few to reach adulthood. I do have some sulphur, monarch and polydamas cats outside but I'm taking a little break from raising them inside.

Beautiful pics Sherry! Don't you just love the sulphur chrysalis?

Rhonda, my guide said the northern Buckeyes make their way to Florida and mingle with the tropical ones. I'm not sure if there's any crossbreeding occuring, but a lot of very strange things happen in the butterfly world. My last 4 Monarch cats just pupated. My rearing cats for this year is over unless I chance upon a helpless wooly bear. After what I've been though with all the Monarch cats this year I can understand how you people in warmer climates do need a break at times. I hadn't seen any yellow sulfer butterflies around here in years, just cabbage whites, and then suddenly this year I started seeing them again. I'm feeling more hopeful now. I don't think theres enough of their host plants in the wild around here. I went to the tallgrass prairie, and saw a Senna there that hadn't even been nibbled. I'm not sure what species of Senna it was. Looked a little like hebacarpa but maybe not. Anyway there aren't any S. obtusifolias around here. Their supposed to be here but their gone. I can't wait to start growing the sicklepod and the popcorn next year and hopefully they will draw those yellow butterflies in like magnets.

Jay, I'm from Chicago and still have a lot of family there. it's getting to the low 60s at night now? Pretty soon the leaves will be changing, or are they starting already?

Yes, Rhonda, I have lots of butterflies now and still two or three hummers. One hummer lets me get quite close. I think she's used to seeing me.

My red and purple porterweeds are in full bloom now as are most of my salvias, firespikes and Hamelia Patens. My second batch of Tithonia are getting pretty big. I hope they will start blooming in a few weeks. I need to remember to plant the second batch earlier next year.

Tom, the leaves are already falling off the trees and there's acorns everywhere. I'm going to bring the 4 last crysalises inside tomorrow. I have to rehang a couple that are hanging from the potted tuberosa plants, and then put the plants in the ground. I forgot where you live. Somewhere further south it sounds like. Somone from Florida was asking about swan milkweeds. There is another nice, colorful one called Asclepius lanceolata. It has orange/red flowers and very narrow leaves. I was wondering, are the red and purple porterweeds 2 different species of Stachytarpheta? The temps have been dipping into the middle 50s. There are a lot of Monarchs roosting in the Oaks and cottonwood. They aren't laying anymore eggs which is good because soon it will be too cold.

Jay, I have read many posts lately about the prairies and fields and how the native plants are disappearing or being intentionally cleared of "weeds" for farming. Sad.

My cat raising break is over since I saw 3 female orange barred sulphurs laying eggs today. Time to pull out the enclosures :) They are so easy to raise.

Tom, glad to hear that your garden is thriving. still no hummers for me but keeping my fingers crossed for the Fall migration.

The red porterweed is still the favorite with butterflies in my garden. It is huge but blooms pretty much non-stop for me. The purple continues to bloom year-round as well and the coral is getting ready to bloom. The jury is still out on the coral as it doesn't bloom often or for a very long period and it gets huge......space is too valuable in my garden such for limited bloom period plants.

My hamelia blooms pretty much year-round and is very popular with butterflies, particularly the Gulf frits. The fuschia firespike is getting ready to start blooming, love it :)

My salvias Amistad, Phyllis'Fancy and coccinea have always done well here and are around 6 foot tall and covered in blooms all year. A couple times a year I cut them back by about half to give them a little break from blooming and to encourage bushier growth. The bees work the Amistad like crazy.

Since there aren’t any new pictures from Rhonda (that’s a hint....), I have a question. Do you think the pattern on the cloudless sulphurs wings is as camouflage? Bright as they are? They show up in big numbers around here just about now. I was amazed today how well this one matched the sycamore leaf.

Yes, they must have developed their coloring as camouflage. I saw a Question Mark for the 1st time this year today. It flew around fast so I couldn't get a good look, but then it landed about 15 inches from me and opened and showed off its wings. I have a Monarch crysalis that's dark and ready to hatch, and something's been eating my Pentas too, but I can't find the culprit. I was hoping I'd find a fat, cute Sphinx cat like Iris had.

How pretty Iris! That is some great camouflage.

Jay, sounds like a good butterfly year for you. I haven't seen a question mark down here but love them.

I started raising orange-barreds again. I brought in several eggs last week and the cats have emerged and are growing like crazy :) each time that I bring in fresh cuttings, I discover more eggs. (ps-I got your hint, Iris)

Love seeing your pictures!

Thanks and I love your's too :)

Out of the corner of my eye, just spotted this cloudless sulphur making a beeline for my tithonia.

Guess the sun's glare was too much for its eye(s).

What a beautiful pic Javi! The tithonias sure are popular.

Thanks, Rhonda. It felt like forever I waited before my single tithonia bloomed (only one out of an entire packet of seeds!). Love the happy flowers. :)

Javi, you are very welcome.

I had a set back with both the orange-barred and Eastern Black swallowtails in my two enclosures last week. Both enclosures are on a raised table on the screened in lanai and were cleaned at least once a day.

I went out in morning last Wednesday or Thursday to find thousands of tiny red ants in the enclosures attacking the caterpillars and chrysalis that had formed. The ants were everywhere! I was heartbroken as many of the caterpillars were dead and being eaten as were some chrysalis.

I rushed both enclosures outside and carefully removed the vases of cuttings, the newspapers and the chrysalis that were attached to the enclosure ceilings and tree branches. I took them to a safe, unaffected table in the lanai.

I then sprayed the enclosures with ant spray and then hosed them down and thoroughly washed them with bleach and water. I also sprayed the table that the enclosures sat on with ant spray and cleaned it as well. After the enclosures dried, I got fresh cuttings and returned the cats and chrysalis to the enclosures.

All I can figure is that the ants were in the soil of the parsley pots that I had in the EBS enclosure and migrated to the OBS enclosure as I couldn't find any ants anywhere else on the lanai.

I figure that I lost 2/3s of the cats and 1/4 of the chrysalis. I am devastated as I have been very diligent in taking care of the eggs/cats.

None of the 8 OBS chrysalis have eclosed yet (there's 2 pink ones) but they look healthy. I have had 3 gorgeous EBSs eclose the past 2 days and there are still 11 chrysalis. I haven't seen anymore ants :)

Oh Rhonda, so sorry this happened! I am glad you were able to save some. Hope “Michael” isn’t going to affect you. Our weathermen are going this way and that. If anything would give me trouble it would be a Michael (that’s my husband’s name, so I know plenty about that)

What a traumatic sight to happen upon, Rhonda. We all try as hard as we can to do no harm, but sometimes things are so out of our control. Can't wait to see your OBSs -- any idea the timetable to eclose?

To both you and Iris, I hope you'll not be in harm's way.

Javiwa, only one tithonia grew out of whole packet of mine too. Not only that, the one that made it is just now starting to bloom ( in mid Mo.) Hope it will show it's color before our cold weather starts in. Your picture is beautiful.

Rhonda we have many cloudless sulphurs flitting around right now. Wish I could find a caterpillar or two. Your pictures are beautiful. Thank you for sharing.

I'll keep my fingers crossed for an extended, warm autumn for you, whatis123! In hindsight, it might be fortunate I had only one seed geminate as the space mine is in, there's no room for more than one!

I'm actually out of town for about 10 days, and left DH to keep ALL my plants alive....no pressure. HAH! That said, in my absence the tithonia blooms are busting out all over. I'm trying not to take this personally. :)

I've got wooden stakes and support twine all over. It's hanging in there, and I've also tulle-bagged a few spent blooms in hopes of harvesting seeds for next spring.

Since this fits in here. Rhonda, “your” popcorn cassia is finally flowering! Took longer this year than last, but at least it didn’t topple over.

Iris and Javi...it was devastating but I'm sure that more survived in my enclosures, even with the ants, than what survive outside with the lizards. But, with the lizards, their death would be much quicker :(

Whatis123, thanks for your compliments. I hope that you do find some cats.

Javi, that's funny about the Mexican sunflower going like crazy under your husband;s care LMAO They sure are popular nectar plants, just wish that they didn't need so much staking and tying. Plus, they tend to get very scraggly looking before they die. But, I'll keep growing them. I pulled mine all out a few months ago (our extreme heat gets to plants) and sprinkled seeds in with my Fay Chapel salvias and they tend to act like natural supports. They are now getting ready to bloom again.

Iris, glad that your popcorn cassia is finally blooming. Hopefully, you'll get some seed pods. Below are a few pics of mine in full bloom. Please ignore the grass...haven't been able to mow for awhile due to the rain.

I have released 3 orange-barred the past few days. Still have 4 chrysalis....lost more than I thought to ants.

Wow Rhonda, yours are gorgeous!

Thanks Iris! Remember, they don't get killed back by freezes here in SW Florida so they just keep growing and blooming :)

Regarding the low success of Tithonia: Did yours start to grow?

Mine quickly became tall thin seedlings, grew no more, died.

(Ideal conditions and care.)

Rhonda: That batch of seeds you tossed in a few months ago -- did you simply harvest them from your existing tithonia? I'm hoping I'll fare better next spring with my harvested seeds vs purchased. Over the years, I see 'weeds' crop up that look awfully similar to what might be cassia seedlings, unless I've mistaken them for something else. Will make note next time and let it/them grow, as I'd love to introduce a new variety to my yard!

four: I'm not sure whom your question (re low success of Tithonia) was for, so I'll share. I don't know that where I tossed my seeds were ideal (all the lit says full sun, but I'm starting to find they don't really mean "full Texas afternoon sun"!). I tossed/spread an entire packet's worth of seeds between two areas in my full sun beds. In one bed, zero came up. In the one bed you see ^^, only the one germinated. Once the seedling appeared, it just kinda went nuts from there -- never gangly or lanky. At one point, we had almost two weeks of daily rain. The soil got very moist, and my tithonia toppled over (at the base, from what I could tell). I knew it'd need to be staked at some point, but I just kept putting if off. Thankfully, the trunk didn't snap, and the plant recovered. Since then, though the bed is well watered, all the leaves sulk after only one hour of afternoon sun.

Four and Javi,

I direct Tithonia seeds collected from the dry flower heads in the ground, don't start in pots. I haven't purchased seeds. My first ever Tithonia were grown from seeds gifted from another Gardenwebber. I just rough up the dirt a little with a fork and sprinkle on top...don't cover with dirt. I guess that I've been lucky so far :)

We gardeners, after we explore the many environmental influences,

which include everything that we do and don't,

must remember that not all plant materials of the same kinds

have (re)productive substances in sufficient quantity and/or

of adequate quality.

I conclude that Tithonia is highly variable in that regard.

So, yes, luck, especially with unknown (purchased) seeds.

It is good that mine failed early.

Non-germination would have been even less time consuming.

Non-germination would have been even less time consuming. << Boy, do I ever second THAT! :) . I had 6 swamp milkweed seeds germinate (last April) after three years of trying, and I was over the moon. No amount of coaxing encouraged these three in-ground plants to grow taller than ~ 7-8". They never wilted or showed signs of stress, but never grew -- well watered, so that wasn't the issue. (Three planted in a pot did well -- growing to 3' -- until the rust got to them. I never did get to see my first swamp MW bloom.)

Nodding in agreement, and commiseration, about milkweeds. I already arrived to the conclusion that, here at least, they must be kept in pots.

It's funny that the best looking milkweed that I have right now is some that popped up in between 2 viburnum bushes at the front of the house...I guess from wind blown seeds :) It doesn't quite fit in there but I'm not touching it :)

Tom, on Sept 15 you wrote that your firespikes were in full bloom. Mine were starting then, giving great expectations. The large patch of robust plants is disappointing. Unsure whether fertilizer would help; what do you think?

It's getting a bit late in the year to encourage blooming, but I don't see how it would hurt to add some organic blooming fertilizer. Most of mine are still blooming very well. I gave them a dose of fertilizer a few months back.

What kind of porterweeds do you have? The ones that are blooming best for me right now are the large lavender and red and the small blue or kind-of-blue one that is the most common here in Florida. The small one pops up in different places on my property. The hummers visit the larger porterweeds.

Firespike : What is the name, or the ratio, of the fertilizer that you gave?

Porterweed : Flowers on mine are dark blue, small. Plants are large.

I always use FlowerTone from Espoma. I use a slow release also, normally in the spring.

Your porterweed should be flowering if it is in sum. It will attract butterflies and other pollinators. The porterweeds with the larger flowers or flowering stems are excellent for all kinds of pollinators.

Firespikes two days ago still very few visible blooms. More spikes, however. I thought that perhaps mine just do not have a constitution for normal flowering. Today many flowers on those spikes.