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jkatx

What would you do - redo floor or take $9k?

8 years ago
The renovation saga continues! We just had engineered hardwoods installed in most of our new house - 3mm French white oak with a nearly natural UV oil finish. Both the wood and the installers came recommended.

During the process, we actually ran out of wood because the installers had found so many glaringly obvious defects - big splotchy yellow stains on the wood. They let us know this right when they ran out, so we got them additional boxes at no charge, and they finished. As they went, the floor was covered by cardboard, so we didn’t really start to see the complete floor until we moved in a few days later. My husband noticed that a super bad board got installed, so they said they’d replace it, which cause damage to the boards around it as you can image. Then we noticed another and another - not as bad as their definitive reject pile, but noticeable. The store we bought it from told us to rip up all the cardboard, look at every board for even subtle defects, and let them know the extent of the issue. Well, it is everywhere, I’m guessing 80ish or more boards total across every room. Most of it is subtle and visitors would only notice if I pointed it out. Some of it is not subtle at all and almost looks like a pee stain or something, not very flattering.

The owner of the flooring company happens to live in our city. He came by to see it in person, said he confirmed the issue with the factory, and there is no question we got a defect. They will fully refund us the price of the wood, which is about $9k, or give us all new wood for free. The issue is with the installation, both cost and inconvenience. We just moved in and are not anywhere close to being settled, so we could probably move ourselves from room to room while they demoed and re-installed, it would just be a dusty mess and another delay in settling in. The flooring company owner does lay some of the blame on the installers though, so he is willing to work with them on the labor but only wants to pay half. We are good friends with two GCs who use the installers often, so while I’m sure they’ll be upset but we probably do have the clout to get that done, plus the company owner said he’d negotiate directly with them.

I’m just not sure what to do. $9k is a lot of money, and we have a ton more to do on the house, so we could certainly use it. On the other hand, this isn’t the floor we paid for, and I know the worst spots will bug us even if we get the money back - we have been so deliberate with our choices and trying to get the house we want, this is a huge blow. The two spots were they did replace boards definitely have other issues like slight splintering on the edges, etc, so I don’t know if doing just the worst boards is a feasible option. The worst room is the open plan living/dining/entry area, which is also the biggest part of the house, and the installers seemed uncomfortable with the overall integrity of the floor if they just did one portion like that. We might try doing more
experiments to see if there is anyway to get it off, but I think it will require fully refinishing it, which is almost as expensive and more inconvenient than ripping it up and reinstalling, and wasn’t an option we got from the flooring company.

Obviously this is super stressful. Everyone keeps saying they are sorry we had such bad luck, no one is blaming us, but that just gives us options, it doesn’t really solve the problem. Any thoughts or advice? What would you do?

Here are a couple pics of the stains - some are larger or darker than others, other are a lot of smaller ones but spread across the board. Lighting and time of day definitely impacts how obvious they are in any given room, but they are definitely everywhere.

Comments (36)

  • 8 years ago

    Redo the floor.

  • 8 years ago

    assess how many of the worst spots will be covered by area rugs or runners.

    it will be a pain to replace this down the road but it seems already a pain to replace it. it will cost more to replace it down the road as prices go up and you have labor available to do it now.

    different people make different choices, there isnt a right one. are you people who get used to things or not?

  • 8 years ago
    Redo the floor... let them make it right by redoing it. 9k isn’t really all that much when it comes to doing other stuff around the house and you’d still be left with floors that aren’t right.
  • 8 years ago

    Redo the floor. It will bug you every single day if you don't.

  • 8 years ago
    Ninigret, that is what is getting me, some of the worst are in more obvious areas that wouldn’t be covered by rugs. Yes, some will be covered, but certainly not all. That larger one I posted, for example, would be in an uncovered area right between the living/dining area, so plenty of eyes on it. We are also worried about resale: If the house is empty at the time it would likely be noticed. If not, still possible it could bug someone.
  • 8 years ago

    there is your answer then.

  • 8 years ago

    I agree with chiflipper, my husband is a flooring installer and they just keep going back till the job is done right, they don't charge the customer when it's not their mistake.

  • 8 years ago
    Chiflipper, we wouldn’t incur cost, just inconvenience. We were remodeling for six weeks while we lived in our previous rental, but now we’re technically moved in. There is a ton that still isn’t done, a ton that still isn’t bought or moved in, but we would have to deal with it - move the stuff that is in, Board the dog, hopefully still be able to stay in whatever room isn’t ripped up. But that is really the only cost to us.
  • 8 years ago
    Bonnie, between the installer and the flooring company some how the labor will get covered. I guess we feel bad that the installers would take a hit, because they are nice guys and a smaller business versus a big flooring company. But they did lay some pretty egregiously bad planks - we even saw one that had been circled as a defect and installed anyway. At some point someone must have noticed how bad it was, because it got better in the last rooms - honestly, I only see three small questionable spots in the last area they did and could indeed live with that. I don’t think that helps their cause though.
  • 8 years ago

    re-do the floor. Stay in an air bnb if you have to for the week and just get it done. Or it will bother you for YEARS! Small hurdle but manageable.

  • 8 years ago

    I would have them re-do the floor asap.

  • 8 years ago

    Hi JK,

    This is NOT "bad luck!"

    This is crap.

    Make them redo, suck it up, renovating sucks.

    Snaps to the owner of the company who personally came over though. Tell him he needs to make this right and you'll leave a glowing review.

  • 8 years ago

    Better to have a bit of inconvenience now, and get it done, than to have that inconvenience after you are already moved in. Its a brand new floor. It needs to be redone. Dont settle. You will always notice it. I know taking the money would get other things done, but, at the cost of what already is done, looking bad. I would want it to be right.

  • 8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Only 9K for the flooring? Something is wrong with that picture. And an problematic oil finish to boot.

    Reselect materials. Add more of your $ to that 9K. Then redo.

  • 8 years ago

    Bite the bullet and redo the floor. I had a similar experience with a 12ft. sliding door that was not what was speced by the architect. so the builder agreed to eat the costs and replace it but it was more work to create the correct size opening and delays I didn't want to deal with. I was so exhausted with everything (including taking my dog to day care everyday), I tried to live with it but I couldn't so I bit the bullet and had it changed. I am soooooo glad I did and you will be too.

  • 8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Re-do. Have them do the floors you need to live on either first or last if possible, and spend a night or two away. Ask for a larger crew to get it done faster.

  • 8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Whew, glad to hear there's no charge involved. This time around; have the supplier, contractor, and installer sign off on 1) all boxes are the same dye lot / run number 2) 20% of the boxes have been opened and the contents inspected by all three parties. I still question why you originally didn't have enough product. "Coming up short" is not professional, especially since it's customary and usual to order "overage"...because "stuff happens".

    hummingalong2...Great suggestion! You have been inconvenienced and disappointed. I have learned from experience, "Ask for the moon and stars. You won't get them but, you will get more than if you ask for nothing".

  • 8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Redo.

    Yes, it will be a pain in the butt. I am in a brand new house and for past five days and probably for next four or five have to brush my teeth in kitchen sink (despite three bathrooms and a laundry sink), have not been able to use my range, and am staring at a fireplace covered in cardboard and with a drywalled mantel. All because of some badly laid tiles and because they put in the wrong fireplace model. It is not pleasant living amongst polytarp, painters tape, and drop clothes, and trades in and out in a *brand new* home but I want it done right - and as I paid for it - or it will bother me forever.

    I can tell you though that I know from experience many people will just take the money and live with it. That is why it is offered, many will take it and it is easier for the contractor to just pay and be done with it. My builder and the sub did not want to replace the fireplace - I mean they said they would if we wanted but they offered all sorts of other options hoping we would take that instead. Retrofits, credit, etc. They warned us they would need to take out entire mantel to do. That it would be messy. That there would also be drywall repairs and repainting. But they would do it if we wanted. And we wanted because that is what we paid for.

    Bless those people who can take money and live with it. Bless also those people who don’t seem to notice issues - I know people who moved in down street from us on same day in house by same builder who report no issues and I just think they are not as picky or don’t have the eagle eye we do, because every house has issues. It is certainly the less destructive and inconvenient route. But I know I would forever be bothered by that wonky tile (like I have), or that splotched floor board(s) like you havs, or highly visible carpet seam (that my friend has and turned down money for it and had them replace), or not having the fireplace we selected and wanted.

  • 8 years ago

    You think it’s splotchy now, just wait until you try to do the maintenance oiling.

  • 8 years ago

    Redo! Be miserable now vs. stewing over the floors for years to come.

  • 8 years ago

    My vote is be inconvenienced,

    Redo the floors now.


    You have to think of this as making memories lol What a story you can tell after your beautiful floors are reinstalled.


    You won't regret the inconvenience, but you will regret it if you do not do it.

  • 8 years ago
    Redo floor for sure!!!!
  • 8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Thank you, everyone, for your advice! I am actually surprised it is universally in favor of redoing them - that was my instinct, because I just want what I paid for. I purposefully and thoughtfully picked all my materials, and the floors are a huge part of the look and feel of the space. But yeah, the money sure would be nice, and a couple of our friends said they’d take it in a heartbeat. Those are also people who don’t put the same level of thought into their house as us and other Houzzers. It’s reassuring to hear that I’m not crazy for just wanting it right.

    Rai Kai, yup, that is our reality at the moment - living in plastic, painters tape, dust. Sleeping in what will eventually be the office, sharing the tiny guest bathroom we are waiting to redo, mostly living out of boxes. At least we’re moved into the kitchen and can cook real meals, but only because it was recently renovated by the previous owners so we didn’t touch it except for a fridge and cabinet hardware, ha! We still have big projects in process, like the master bath renovation, I am just so ready for it to all be done.

    But writing all that out it seems like a no brained to do it now. We’re already living in a state of inconvenience and chaos! So everyone keeps reminding us how inconvenient it will be, but agreed, they know most people will just take the money.

    Another question - would you guys leave anything? Like, if they think they could make it work by leaving the kitchen which has very subtle stains on only a couple board, would you? Or would you insist everything gets done again?

  • 8 years ago

    Take the $$ and run. It sounds like you don't really notice the stains, and you could also re finish at a later date.

  • 8 years ago

    If the replacement is an exact color match, I might consider keeping the parts where you said they got better (if it really is good enough). But it probably won't be the exact same color since it'll be from a different production run.

    Are you sure that the only flaw in the flooring is the color and that the finish isn't bad as well? If the finish isn't good, you don't want it anywhere, especially the kitchen.

  • 8 years ago

    First, be sure that this material is of the quality you really want. I have to question the manufacturer's overall quality control if they let this out of the factory. If you are thinking of keeping the kitchen with very subtle stains, it sounds like you are replacing the material with exactly the same material (but not damaged of course) . I'd make sure that going for a different batch of the same material will result in the quality you want. Ensure that you didn't just make a bad choice. Who is the manufacturer?

    So let's assume another batch of the same material will provide the quality you want. Do not leave the material in the kitchen. Replace it all. You'll never get the same dye lot and it will always look funky. And the kitchen is the room that will get the most wear and tear so if there is a small problem with it now, you will likely have a big problem with it later.

  • 8 years ago

    I would look at a complete redo....with a cautionary tale for the "UV oil finish". The stains you are seeing WILL TURN UP. Even if you get a PERFECT BATCH and the floor is installed PERFECTLY (Yes...we need to suspend our disbelief for a few more minutes), you will EVENTUALLY end up with floors that look EXACTLY like this.

    No...I am NOT kidding. As Sophie points out, you will need to do maintenance oiling a couple of times per year (depending on what the finish requires), and the maintenance cleaning with the MANUFACTURER'S recommended materials is an ongoing event (for years and years and years). And then EVENTUALLY you will NEED to add more of the "coloured oil" to get the floor to remain this dusty gray colour.

    I would look at this as a "nasty" blessing in disguise (nasty shock to see your floor look ugly right after install). I'm saying this with kindness. We have seen on Houzz, over and over and over and over and over again (possibly a dozen times), oil based finishes causing GREAT UPSET with the homeowners who chose them.

    These yellowish stains almost look like WATER DAMAGE. As in, wet boxes delivered in the rain, etc. These are stains we see around dog's water dishes or at the front door or in high traffic areas between the kitchen and living room/games room (spilled drinks, etc).

    So...I vote for a redo - but with a different material. I know you love the LOOK of the perfect floor. I would caution you against this type of finish of water stains (or any type of stain) is going to upset you. Oil finishes (hardwax oil, etc) are KNOWN to have these types of staining issues.

    Yes it is a REAL P!SS OFF that you had an imperfect floor installed. I am not denying that for a moment. But you have been given a "futuristic view" of what your floor WILL LOOK LIKE in as little as one month...or as much as one year.

    Get a redo....but while you are waiting, go ahead and purchase ALL the maintenance materials and PRACTICE cleaning/scrubbing/oiling on the damaged floor. See how much effort it takes to get rid of these stains. And make sure you get some of the coloured oil so that you can REAPPLY the colour in areas where you have scrubbed off the stain/finish and have to do a colour repair.

    This practice session will tell you everything you need to know about owning an oiled floor. If you don't mind it (for the next 25 years) then get the same floor. If you HATE the experience, well at least you have the chance to change the floor WITHOUT FINANCIAL PENALTY.

    Most Houzzers who find out this lesson are left with a MASSIVE $$$$$ bill to remove the brand new floor they hate.

  • 8 years ago

    SJ McCarthy, I"m exhausted just reading about it!

  • 8 years ago
    Apparently the factory knew exactly what happened. These floors are a “natural” white oak but apparently they still get a very light stain when they are finished. One of the nozzles was clogged, and they thought they caught it all, but they think this batch might have gotten through early before they realized the issue. No one has pushed back at all on the wood and said it is obviously a defect related to a known issue - I was actually surprised at how quickly that was acknowledged and agreed on. The only thing people are debating is the install and who is responsible for what if we redo them. I do think Chiflipper’s advice was good to just let them negotiate between themselves on that.

    I did do a lot of research on UV oil floors, including on Houzz, before picking these. I know there are pros and cons to UV oil as well as AO poly, but the extra maintenance seemed worth it for the ability to repair and the more natural look. But I didn’t see anything about water stains or the other issues mentioned.
  • 8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    Redo floor. Not even a question, to me. And completely agree about the oiled finish - I'd never choose that material.

  • 8 years ago

    Redo.

  • 8 years ago

    Sigh...oiled?....yet another reason why I love my porcelain plank tile floors.

  • 8 years ago
    last modified: 8 years ago

    lol ok I guess I'm the only one that says to take the 9k and run! To me, nothing is perfect. Once furniture and rugs are in you might not notice as much.


    Plus once you start living on them the floors aren't going to stay perfect anyway.

  • PRO
    8 years ago

    It's insane to not try to remove the stains before making a decision. It's cosmetic, not structural. Get some #40 peroxide from the beauty supply store; the thick stuff. Spread it over the spot and cover it with Saran Wrap overnight. It's worth a shot.

  • 8 years ago

    Is there a sealer on the wood or do you have the option to try to deep clean it or stain it darker?

    Have you tried using common household products such as alcohol or peroxide or even bleaching on at least a small problem area?

    If my options were a $9k refund or replacing the flooring, my inclination would be to replace the flooring.

    If, however, my option was to spend an additional $9k or live with the floor, I'd start looking for ways to make the splotches less noticeable.