IME, any rose that suffers from winterkill needs a rootstock to help it regrow the next summer. There are a couple of exceptions, but very, very few of them. So yes, the Canadian nurseries that are our 'local' nurseries all sell grafted plants. When Mike Lowe started his nursery many years ago in Nashua, he started selling own-root hardy roses like Gallicas, but when he branched out into HPs and other roses, he had to start selling those grafted. About half the roses we ended up purchasing from Mike were grafted because those were the more interesting ones.

The New York City botanical gardens are at least zone 7. The Staten Island Botanical Garden, which is near my in-laws, plays around with Tea roses. So they don't need particularly hardy roses down there. For many years, Stephen Scanniello was the curator of the Cranford Rose Garden, which is part of the Brooklyn Botanical Garden. I don't know who is currently the curator of the Peggy Rockefeller Rose Garden. Own-root roses are one of those things that 'sound' good. They 'should' be hardier. But because of the regrowth issue, they aren't. So add another reason people around here struggle with roses.

Steven knows best the gardens where he lives. I have found him to have some odd opinions regarding gardens whose conditions are very different from his.

To be honest, you need to always think twice about unconditional opinions like that, because, really, it depends greatly upon WHERE you are gardening, and WHAT you are growing (or trying to grow).

Multiflora, for instance, is great where you are? It's the Rootstock From Hades where I am.

"Location, location, location . . . "

Okay, well that's too bad then, because it would have been nice to be able to have more of a selection. So many nurseries do sell own root. And now that Pickering is gone that leaves only Palatine that grafts onto multiflora, right?

I thought SScanniello was now the current curator of the Peggy Rockefeller Garden. He also recommended a Massachusetts rose nursery - Roseland - for the care they use in growing the roses they offer. I wonder if they are zone 6 or zone 7? They are in Achusnet which is near New Bedford, so further South from where I am, but it would be nice to have a recommended nursery locally instead of only mail order.

What Jeri said. Always try to get advice from someone who gardens near you, period. Climates vary seriously, even if they have the same numerical zone. Too many variables - humidity, soil, pests, etc. Many responsible local rose societies publish lists of roses they have found to do well in their area. Re the rootstock issue, some rose cultivars, in addition to some areas, do better with own root, or with being grafted - it is not a simple question.

Of course, the best info is what you have learned in your garden about how certain roses grow in your garden. In my garden, I have had such bad experiences dealing with annoying Dr. Huey rootstock trying to take over the scion of roses which were here when we moved in that I have never planted a rose myself unless it was on its own roots. No winter kill here in our mild climate, and I have decided that if a rose will grow more slowly and stay smaller on its own roots, that is a GOOD THING in my garden, where most of the roses are growing way larger than they are "supposed to".

Jackie

David Austin website sells a limited selection of grafted antiques. Most of my antique roses are own root, a few are grafted. I've grown own roots from bands but prefer one or two gallon when possible.

My experiences will be useless for you, since we haven't had anything close to freezing temperatures since global warning began to rear its head in my garden about five years ago. I instinctively use own-root roses since they're easy for me to obtain and it means I don't have to contend with the evil Dr. Huey rootstock. I have no idea, however, whether that is always the best solution and at this point I'm past caring because the rabbits don't care what they're eating and that is my biggest issue right now that supersedes everything else. If I lived in a cold climate I would probably use whatever works best for each rose category. I would imagine that rugosas, for instance, might work well own-root, although I don't know that for a fact. It would be trial and error for a while, and I would rely on what local experts recommend, although that may also be open to interpretation. In the final analysis only you will know better than anyone else what will thrive on your particular piece of land. There's never an easy answer, but in time you'll figure it out.

Jacqueline - That is the one thing I’ve picked up on the forums, to look for advice from someone growing roses near me. The problem seems to be that growing roses on the West Coast or in the higher zones, can almost be a year round activity, so there seems to be a lot more people posting from those areas. I don’t find a lot of people from my neck of the woods posting here. I do have to depend on anyone at least growing in my colder zone, like New York, Ohio or PA.

Yes, I’m pretty sure I sought out some of the local rose clubs, but I was not able to find anyone who grew organically in a no spray garden. So whatever list of roses they offer, would not really help me at all.

It can sound wonderful to be able to grow all year and for roses to grow a lot larger, but I’m sure it has it’s drawbacks. [g]. I really look forward to the winter months when I can put gardening on the back shelf for a few months.

The rugosas would work with own root. They are a casual and suckering plant though and I can only grow roses in the front in a mixed bed. I tried a rugosa - great fragrance. I had a Double de Courbet white. I don’t remember why I don’t have that one any more.

I am basically just doing trial and error. I don’t mind much. I try what I like with some effort put in to try to get something healthy and fragrant and enjoy it until it doesn’t work out and try another. :-)

Thanks Krista - I just heard about a local nursery in my state that sells 3 gallon sizes that I can drive to, so I am considering doing that in the spring. They have an Austin collection, but I don’t know yet if they are own root or not. I've tried 2 Austins that didn't work out, so hoping there is one more that is healthy enough for me to try it.

My local nurseries sell Austins in large green pots that I think are 3 gallon size pots... they are grafted. They are nice plants.

I grew mostly own root roses in Alaska for 33 years in z 3 and it worked well for the varieties that were hardy. Grafted roses were usually HTs that I wasn't as interested in, and they weren't hardy anyway. I mail ordered from Northland Rosarium, High Country Roses, Heirloom, Vintage, Corn Hill, Suzy Verrier, and Antique Rose Emporium.

Can one still order from Suzy Verrier?

Prairiemoon, determine what the zip code is for the nursery or garden you're questioning what zone they're in, then enter that zip in this interactive USDA zone map. It will tell you what you want to know.

Vapor, I last ordered in 2015. I have hope she might get the rose business going again.

Alaska for 33 years, Shelia? That had to be an adventure, and such a beautiful place. So, you just chose the hardiest roses in the catalog? And did you have to give them extra winter protection? Wasn’t it a shorter growing season?

Roseseek, are you saying buy from nurseries that are in a zone that is similar to mine?

Prairiemoon,

Mad Gallica's first two sentences in her response are right on target.

There are own root roses that can grow to their full potential in your/our cold climates if they have minimal winter die back, grow bigger year by year, and reach an acceptable mature size.

It is on a case by case basis in determining which roses have the fortitude to grow well own root in cold zones. Most hybrid tea types do far better grafted for us.

Planting the graft 4" below soil surface will help insure that the bud union survives.

I find winter mulching with medium pine bark inside a paper bag collar placed around the bush helps retain as much alive, green top growth as possible. The secret to effective mulch is it must be dry, non absorbing, and non compacting. Most leaves, particularly maple leaves, and soil mulch get too soggy over winter and actually are counterproductive, killing canes.

I grow a lot of own root hybrid teas, floribundas, and grandikids that would die to the ground every winter if not mulched. I don't get entire canes survive to their tips when mulched, but enough green, live growth to make for a thriving bush. The upper dead growth would be pruned away at spring pruning anyway, so their loss is of no consequence. These own root roses grown on root stocks, particularly multiflora (best for our cold climate, clay type soils), would certainly grow bigger and better than own root for me, but still need winterization. The root stock does not necessarily impute winter hardiness to the top, just a boost in vigor in spring to recover quickly and robustly from the hardness of the past winter.

As you said , the selection of own root varieties is vast compared to what Palatine and a few others offer grown on multiflora.

In conclusion my thoughts on this issue, and what I do are:

Own root roses can work for us, but the variety matters, and winterization is critical for the less winter hardy ones.

Moses

Roseland is a canner. They buy wholesale bareroots in Jan/Feb, pot them up, and grow them in greenhouses so they are nice and pretty for sale in May. So it doesn't really matter what zone they are in. They just buy what they think the customers will buy, not necessarily what will do well.

Hortico is still around and much of their stock is on R. multiflora. Also, Wisconsin Roses, but you have to be patient and really follow the instructions as they are newly budded bareroots.

No Prairiemoon, you had wondered what zone a nursery was in and this site can tell you that answer.

It does appear that it is not a simple answer, but that works for me. I’ve always enjoyed experimenting, so this kind of an answer, encourages me to do just that. [g]

If I get the idea, I need the grafted roses on the Multiflora stock, but, there are some own root roses, if they are naturally hardy enough, that might be worth trying. And there is always the option of giving winter protection.

I mean, if Sheila can do it in Alaska, I could try it in balmy zone 6. [g]

I will make an order from Palatine, and check out Hortico and Wisconsin Roses, but just for fun, I could look at Northland or High Country Roses, etc for one to experiment with.

Mad Gallica - thanks for the info on Roseland. Disappointing, it would have been nice to have a local nursery that was worthwhile.

Thank you all. :-)

Half of my roeses are ownroots. I really depend on the variety, at least here. It is a matter of natural vigor and winter hardiness of the rose. my second cinderrela fairytale was an ownroot. When I remove it after 5 years due to balling, the trunk is at the base is easily 10 inches in width. That thing was practically a small tree. My heritage is also an ownroot, 2 and a half feet tall and one feet across.

I suspect that some of the roses can give the doctor or multiflora a run for its money in terms of vigor and hardiness

Oh, I am pretty sure my rose midge problem started with own roots from either of the best own roots vendors in the South. If I can start over, I will not buy any potted plant from anywhere. Bareroot ownroots or grafted will be the way to go if I had a second garden

Farmerduck,

Rose Midge Fly is a real scourge, how well I know. It's a shame they can be introduced into a previously clean garden from potted roses that have live adults lurking in the foliage, live maggots on growing tips, or live pupae in/on the soil.

In my case, midge is a yearly reality. I cannot eradicate it from my garden no matter hard I try. Also, if I could eradicate it from my garden, midge from my neighbor's infested, uncared for roses will quickly fly through my fence and I am back in business, midge wise.

I have an idea for you that may work for potted roses, but probably best for liner size (little), ones.

First, If that special rose you want is only available potted, say from Chamblee's, Heirloom, or Roses Unlimited, ask the OWNER if their roses have a possibility of arriving midged. Tell them that your inquiry is just a friendly inquiry. A good response will tell you a lot. By no means is an owner's assertion that your purchase will be midge free, is gospel truth. You're just getting a feel for what the owner's attitude and responsibility level is.

Second, If you go ahead and buy a potted rose, do this. As soon as it arrives make a two gallon bucketful of the Bayer Advanced Complete Insect Killer, at 1 tablespoon per gallon of tepid water, about 75°F., not hot water.

Soak the rose(s) completely submerged, in their pots, top growth complete covered. Let them soak for 1 hour. Of course, handle everything with waterproof gloves or something like tongs. I think you can be pretty certain that such a treated rose will be midge free.

Moses

It's not a simple answer. I used to speak on this issue with more assurance than I do now. And while I now grow roses in zone 9 California, I used to grow roses in zone 6 Pennsylvania so I've experienced both.

Grafted roses have many advantages, including early vigor and the ability to avoid having suckering kinds of roses form an ever-spreading thicket. Gallicas and rugosas are the worst for this in my experience, but they are not the only ones. You also avoid the problem of having a clean scion pick up rose mosaic virus from an infected rootstock, usually Doctor Huey. However if the scion is already infected (many are) or if you are using seed-grown multiflora, this last is not a consideration.

Being grafted can make a huge difference in performance with some 20th century roses that were not selected for ability to grow well on their own roots. Some do fine on their own, some do not. Some really need to be grafted. Also, you must be on constant guard against the rootstock forming its own suckers and killing off the scion. This is not a trivial issue.

If a cold winter kills off a lot of the scion, a strong rootstock can help it come back. But, if a cold sinter kills off ALL of the scion, you will have a nice plant of multiflora, which if you are sensible you will promptly dig up and discard before it turns into a monster from Hades. Speaking from experience here.

If however, you have an own root rose, and it kills to the ground, and its own roots survive in the ground, they might indeed come back true to the variety you purchased. Still, if it is susceptible enough to die off that badly every year, and not just on during an unusually bad winter, you aren't going to get much value from that rose anyway.

As I said, it's complicated. Which is why people have been arguing passionately about it on this forum since the early 1990's.

I long ago decided that, for me, the ultimate answer was that I prefer many roses on their own roots, but a few budded.
And as I get older, I realize that while that some own-root plants WILL eventually be big and impressive -- I might very well be gardening in the hereafter before that is achieved.

Hi. Zone 6b here. I prefer own root, they perform better for me. As someone else said, I buy the largest available whenever possible. And that usual means I order from Antique Rose Emporium. They ship two gallon own root plants.

Moses, thanks for the great suggestion. Yes, rose midge is a real scourge

Roseland has a very good selection and they do offer plenty of roses that will do well in zone 6 (& 5), you just need to do your homework. Yes they just pot up bare roots and grow them in a greenhouse, but our growing season is so short that the jump start in the greenhouse can make a big difference..

I've had mixed luck with own root. It really depends on the rose, and unfortunately there is often limited advice out there for those of us in cold zones. I've learned to not try to grow own roots sold as bands.

I trust Northland Rosarium and High Country when they recommend a rose as suitable for zone 5. Just because a grower is not in a cold zone doesn't mean they don't offer hardy roses, but of course it's up to you to do your research regarding hardiness and vigor. I ordered from Rose Petals and Antique Rose Emporium for the first time this year and was impressed by the size of the roses received and the amount of first season growth. I've always been happy with roses purchased from Heirloom.

Palatine's roses are top notch, multiflora rootstock certainly seems to like my acidic soil, but I also find roses grafted on Dr Huey grow well and I have never had a rose on Dr Huey revert to rootstock.

Many of Ping Lim's Easy Elegance roses are hardy and are vigorous on their own roots, I often see them available at garden centers.

Happy rosing, enjoy the experimenting, it's all part of the adventure!

Sorry if a silly question, but can fortuniana rootstock successfully grow for you folks up north and out west?

I grow Fortuniana as an own root plant here, and it seems to do fine.

Fortuniana isn't very hardy as a rootstock and it's a gamble in cold zones at best (zone 5 and lower). Someone in a cold zone posted pictures of roses on fortuniana that survived in zone 5 or 4 (was it Kelly?), but that seems to be the exception rather than the rule. Basically I don't even look at catalogues of vendors that sell on fortuniana so I'm not tempted (and I buy a lot of roses). It's basically something we rule out in the midwest and eastern north.

Zone 8 Oregon is technically north too but a different thing BTW. Far as I know fortuniana does fine there.

Cynthia

Canina is the hardiest rootstock in Scandinavia but we now get lots of imported roses grafted on multiflora that seem to survive better and better because of global warming. But for the really cold zones in Sweden own root roses is the best option with roses grafted on canina the second best. I have begun to avoid own root roses because of their suckering tendencies. A pity because i've many pass along plants and foundlings but they are impossible in a garden with some semblance of order. My garden ideal is "gentle decay" but if you don't have acres you can have too much gentleness and far too much decay.

RDHeads - Thanks for another perspective on Roseland. I found it interesting that if they start out with bare root and then pot them up, I would assume in bagged potting soil, then you might get two benefits - one as you said a jump on the season, and two, you might avoid the ‘midge’ problem discussed here.

This is a good discussion of the ins and outs of own root vs grafted. Educational, thanks.

prariemoon, I'm not sure if houzz allows you to share urls, so google: Roseland Achushnet and you'll fine the site. They'll update their site in the early winter. They open April 1, I like to go there early. They have a good selection but popular roses do sell quickly. Even though the standard advice for our zone is to wait until May to plant potted roses, I've put mine in the ground in April or might shelter them in the shed if winter is really hanging on. It's unlikely that we'll get a hard frost at that point, and a even bit of snow doesn't bother them.