Not sure if this is what you're looking for (might help?):

[Acorns:[(https://www.houzz.com/discussions/buying-acorns-dsvw-vd~1736480?n=36)

[Storing acorns:[(https://www.houzz.com/discussions/best-way-to-store-and-best-time-to-plant-acorns-dsvw-vd~1723090?n=5)

It seems to me much easier just to plant them right away, protect from animals and leave outdoors over winter. Why go to the trouble of working out and providing the correct conditions for storing them when you could just do as nature does and sow in autumn?

At my nursery, we clean and float all our seed first, let it dry and store it at 36 degrees. Anything that has a radical emerging we plant immediately, but unbroken seed we've successfully stored for the winter under refrigeration.

How long do you dry it for? I'm worried about getting them too dry.

whats your goal in storing them ... ???

the obvious answer ... to me anyway.. lol.. fwtw ... lol ... is to be the squirrel ... plant some

and store some ... in a various number of ways.. and take copious notes ...

by drying them.. i presume he meant the exterior .. to avoid molds and mildews on the husks ....... rather than drying the inside ..

ken

I plant nuts in fall in pots topped with chicken wire to protect from critters. Then I surround the pots with mulch or leaves to reduce temperature swings over winter. Without specific equipment for storing, it just seems easiest to me.

Kyle,

Ken is correct, we only dry it in the sense that we want the exterior to be free of moisture. Some seed is dried to a certain internal moisture content (6-8%) but we don't concern ourselves with that when it comes to oaks. The way of the squirrel really is best here!

I understand that lol. How long do you let it dry for? A week? Two?

If you’re going to sow immediately you don’t need to dry at all. Just sow the darn things and forget them until next year.

I prefer storing and planting in root pruning containers in spring. You have more control, can cull the runts more easily, and protect from critters.

Store in a closed ziploc, as close to freezing as possible. Ideal temp is actually about 30F - they won’t freeze at this temp and also are less likely to sprout, although up to about 36F is usually ok.

I have stored them this way from early October, in the fridg, and had 90% germination in early April.

I'm glad you chimed in, Hair. I was thinking about messaging you; I know you have quite a bit of experience in this area.

How deep were the root pruning containers you first planted them in? I've read a couple different opinions on how deep it should be to account for the long tap root.

I’m actually camping at the moment, so I don’t have much battery life. But I will definitely get back to you tomorrow.

Awesome. Sounds good.

Kyle:

Carl Whitcomb has said there is a “4” rule” in that roots which are pruned only develop roots 4” back from the cut point.

I haven’t found this to be universally true, although it’s probably a fairly reasonable guideline. That said, I have tried different types of root pruning pots to start seeds, and had ultimately fairly similar results at the end of the day.

The main thing is, you have to make sure at least the taproot is pruned (which even an Anderson Band Pot will do if the bottom is exposed to air), and you get lateral roots as a result. It’s the taproot that is obviously the biggest concern.

The longer you keep them in the container, the more it’s an issue that you want to have those lateral roots pruned as well, as they too will eventually circle. I do like producing a nice dense, fibrous root system, so I do prefer to use actual root pruning pots that will prune those lateral roots.

Rootmaker pots work fairly well, and I like them, but I prefer Pioneer Pots. Stuewe and Sons sells them. While I think they still have some in stock, I believe they’ve actually been discontinued.

They come in a few sizes, but most sizes are deeper than rootmakers. They also have more holes on the side which produces a more well distributed lateral root system, and because they have a larger volume, the seedlings can stay in them for about a month or two longer. I haven’t found that the aforementioned “4 inch rule” applies, I have gotten nice, fibrous roots on all types of trees from these.

There are other brands as well, and I’ve experimented with a couple and they all seem to more or less work the same way. There is one called RediRoot (also sold by Stuewe and Sons) that looks promising.

Once they have outgrown the initial containers, then I might consider something like a fabric pot (Smart Pot). I don’t like Smart Pots for initial seed starting. They do work, but are overkill for a new seedling, and better suited for transplanting once the plant outgrows the initial cell.

Oaks have a reputation for slow growth, but alba is actually the only deciduous oak I’ve grown from seed for which that is really true. Most red oaks, and even most other oaks in the white group, (bur, Swamp white, swamp chestnut, chestnut oak) actually grow fast. Even alba isn’t THAT slow in good conditions.

You can, once they outgrow their initial rootpruning container, transplant directly to the ground as long as you are vigilant about watering until they’ve established roots into the surrounding soil. Just keeping in mind that those small containers dry out very quickly, As will the resulting root ball if you plant it directly in the ground. I just find that organized, grouped containers are easier to water than a few small trees scattered about the landscape. That said, you certainly can plant them directly in the ground after they outgrow the root pruning container.

Usually, the seedlings fill the initial root pruning container with about as much roots as it’s going to be able to, (including multiple air-pruning cycles densely filling the rootball) by approximately 60-100 days after germination. The one exception is that with a slower growing tree like a white oak, if you are vigilant about watering and using a liquid fertilizer like Foliage Pro, you *might* Be able to get it through a full growing season in a larger size (18 pack) Rootmaker or Pioneer Pot, but it’s not really ideal.

I generally prefer to pot them up to a smart pot or something similar, at least through the end of the first season. The one issue with the Pioneer Pots is they’re too deep to transplant to a 1-Fallon fabric pot, you have to go to a three gallon to get the needed depth.

Hey Hair,

In general, it was a very bad mast year for oaks in my immediate area, especially those in the white oak group, but after lots of searching (and driving) I finally got a fairly good collection.

I have several trays of 4" deep rootmaker trays. Do you think this is deep enough? I feel like maybe not based on your above comments.

Also, I believe you used a modified version of the 5-1-1 media for your seeds, correct? I had planned on just using perlite:peat at about a 2:1 ratio. Pinebark fines, for whatever reason, aren't carried anywhere super close to me, though I know I can get some in Knoxville, which is about an hour and a half away.

"Some seed is dried to a certain internal moisture content (6-8%) but we don't concern ourselves with that when it comes to oaks."

I hope it's more than just not concern(ing) (your)self with that! Drying acorns out is a good way to ensure you don't have oaks! Acorns are recalcitrant.

Kyle, I guess you have moved? Anyway, I was going to say that you can get bark fines (Nature's Helper) at Knoxville Seed, but I guess that may be where you were thinking about. That's what I grow most of my container plants in.

Never even heard of that place, Brandon. Is it a place worth visiting? I've gotten some at Stanley's greenhouse before

Kyle, interestingly it was a good mast year here in my area for white oaks.

The 4” deep rootmakers are great to start with, but you’ll need to transplant to something larger (or plant In the ground) sooner - probably by the time they are about 60-90 days old (meaning 60-90 days from the time of the first top growth showing).

When I used them, I seem to recall having to transplant sometime in June. I start them outdoors in the containers usually about March 20-April 1 depending on weather. With the realization that occasionally I’ll have to slide them into the garage on a freezing or frosty night a few times. While seedlings in nature could likely handle a bit of a frost, as you probably know, plants are generally a little more freeze sensitive in a container.

One other thing I’ve noticed, and perhaps I’m the only one this has happened to.

In the past I’ve attempted to start tree seedlings under grow lights, and then transition them out doors much like you would a vegetable plant. I have gotten a bit of a jumpstart by doing this with a lot of tree species, but oaks seem to be an exception.

It’s not that they don’t appreciate a longer growing season. Oaks in my experience tend to send out multiple flushes until the days start getting too short in late summer. I have started oaks outdoors in April, and had them 3 feet tall by the end of the season because they flush multiple times. Mostly michauxii, bicolor, and macrocarpa. Alba tends to be slower FYI, it does flush multiple times, but only makes it up to about a foot tall the first year in my experience.

However, I have tried oaks indoors in February, and for some reason the hardening off process completely halts their growth for the season. Root growth seems to continue, but they stop flushing on top, and I don’t know why.

I had one year where I started a bunch of michauxii and coccinea indoors in February, and more outdoors in April (same seed stock for both sets, same media, same containers).

The indoor ones flushed twice under the grow light, then I hardened them off and moved them out. They never got leaf burn or anything, they just completely stopped growing after that.

The ones I started in April actually ended up about twice the size of the indoor-started plants by the end of the season.

The following season they all grew normally, but there was something about that transition from indoors to out that just completely halted their growth, and I don’t know why.

Hey hair, any advice on keeping these guys sufficiently moist this winter? They seem to dry out incredibly quickly in the rootmaker trays. I used a 2:2:1 ratio of pine fines, perlite, and peat. Also, do I need to protect them from freezing right now? Or not till they have top growth in the spring?

I don’t attempt to put them in the rootmakers until spring. Over the winter, I keep them either in Ziploc bags in the refrigerator, or, if they’ve already tried to sprout roots, I will put them in a container of vermiculite or even just a cheap commercial potting mix, with the root (if it exists yet) pointed down.

Typically, if you keep the refrigerator as cold as possible, or stick them in the back of the fridge where it tends to run a bit colder, they won’t aprout early, but at slightly warmer temps, roots May grow a few inches, but not long enough to cause any real problems, and you can just stick them into the rootmakers in March or April. That’s how I do it. If by chance the root is actually longer than the bottom of the boot maker, it’s OK to cut an inch or so off as long as there’s no top growth, but I wouldn’t cut anymore than that.

Through some experimentation, I found that when storing acorns, if you can keep them between 29 and 33F, they won’t sprout in the fridge. I know my refrigerator runs around 36°, right at the back in the bottom corner it does tend to stay closer to 32.

You can’t let the acorns freeze, but since the moisture in them contains sugars, it won’t freeze right at 32F. I read a report a few years ago that acorns don’t actually start seeing freeze damage until around 27 or so, if I recall correctly.

Yikes. I’ve already put them in the rootmaker trays, and we’ve already had a few nights below 32. Just one night that was way below. Think they’re all toast?

Maybe, maybe not. How cold was it? I’d try to keep them maybe in a garage or something. That’s the most you can do.

Kyle, Knoxville Seed is a little hard to explain. It's somewhere between a retail store and and the crop side of a co-op business. They have agriculture seed, grass seed, commercial potting soil, pots and containers, and stuff like that. They also have some plants, mostly crop plants and annuals. Shopping there can be a little frustrating because they run out of stuff so often.

Mostly what I buy there is pots/containers (when I need quite a few but not a whole case/pallet), Nature's Helper, and some potting soil. If you ever need blueberry plants, their selection is superb!

Hair: I believe it got somewhere between 20-24 one night.

Honestly, I'd just plant them now.

The advice of commercial operations may not be the best for you. They have had lots of practice storing acorns and have gotten good at it, they may want to sell acorns, they may want to "assembly line" all their tree planting in the Spring.

Just planting them outide in the fall is much more "idiot proof".

See above comments; they’ve already been planted in rootmaker trays.

Not to mention, at least for me, the likelihood of an acorn making it outdoors to sprout in spring is low without barricading it like Fort Knox. So many critters to eat it...

I just put chicken wire over the tops and down the sides of my nut-planted pots, all clustered together and with a couple of bricks on the pot rims to hold everything in place.. It was completely undisturbed.