Thanks, dirtyg. I figured you might have some good info. Must have been the

birds that spread the seeds at my old homestead as they were popping up all along the fencing. Can't believe they were like weeds to me then and now

I want to grow just a few. They were so beautiful when they were in bloom

and fed the birds all winter with the berries.

I'd start about 3 times as many as you want to grow, because the germination rate isn't that great, so I read.

You are so right, dg. I only bought 15 seeds off ebay so if I get 3-5 plants

I'll be happy. Then I'll just propagate cuttings.

In reading about your suggested scarification using acid, I think I'll just

try using vinegar since it's ascetic acid and I have it on hand.

I looked up the digestive fluids in bird's stomachs and it's hydrochloric

acid, so I don't think the particular acid is crucial. Like you mentioned,

it's purpose is to soften-break down the hard seed wall. Thanks again,

for your ideas and helpful suggestions.

Are you starting them in pots or in the ground? I think starting in a potting mix might be more successful.

They do like moist ground. I always see plenty in marshy areas, drainage ditches and similar.

I have some in my yard here, in a shady, moist spot with rich soil.

P.S. I had lots of little seedlings come up in raised garden beds underneath the branches of an elderberry, presumably from the fallen berries.

carolb, I'll start them in some fortified leafy acidy soil from under my oak trees.

Unfortunately my soil here is ultra sandy and dry so if I hope to succeed w/

seeds, it'll have to be in pots initially.

You might try mixing some cheap clay cat litter to the areas, along with piling lots of compost on top.

mr1010 - that leaf mould would be great for starting them! They absolutely love sandy soil, so don't worry about that. It's a native plant, so it will grow well in our native soil.

You don't have your messaging turned on, so can you please PM me. If your seeds don't work, I will have rooted cuttings by spring. I'm going right now to take some cuttings from a nearby tree before it gets frozen back.

Dirtygardener, Sent you a pm, but I think it did NOT go through. Then I commented here about the pm and it's been deleted.

I will try again.

mr1010, I got it and replied.

A couple of the cuttings I put into water are already getting nubbies, so I'll definitely have some to share next year.

Yay!!!! Crossing my toes that some of my measly 15 seeds sprout.

We all know, dirtyg, you just have the magic touch.

Just read that elderberries are one of many berries that bluebirds eat to survive in the winter so

I will be putting extra effort into growing these. I have a bunch of Eastern bluebirds t that show up here every fall and spend 5-6 months here before they move north.

I plan to also order some dried mealworms to feed them. And some nijer seed for all the little

goldfinches that have arrived.

Any one else here spoil the birds?