m111675

BM Simply White walls with Super White trim

m111675
last year

Anyone use Benjamin Moore Simply White on the walls (in eggshell) with Benjamin Moore Super White on the trim (in semi-gloss)? If so, how does it look? Work well together? Or better to use same color on walls and trim but different sheens? Thanks!

Comments (69)

  • PRO
    Lori A. Sawaya
    last year
    last modified: last year

    This is how you figure out if any combination of whites will work.

    There has to be a difference of at least 0.20 in Chroma.

    And you have to feel that the colors look pretty together - does it look like the colors go together?

    Simply White has a Chroma of 0.50 and Super White has a Chroma of 0.21.

    That means, yes, they technically work together.

    Next step is pull chips and/or sample and see if you like how they look. Personally, I like the color relationship they have in terms of hue family. I think it's subtle yet enough to tell they are two different colors. It's a pretty combination. Keep it mind it's going to look slightly different compared to the chips because of the gloss levels you're using but the inherent color harmony is still there.



    Best Answer
  • PRO
    Lori A. Sawaya
    26 days ago

    Is it me or are the posts completely out of order making it impossible to follow this thread?

  • tryingtounderstand
    26 days ago

    @ Lori, it’s Houzz at their best. At times, it posts newest comments first then switches to oldest first, who knows.

  • PRO
    Lori A. Sawaya
    26 days ago

    I can't keep up! hahaha!

  • gettingnowhere
    26 days ago

    what about painting ceiling same colour as walls? I have this dilemma and started a new thread as I don’t want to hijack this one.

  • PRO
    Lori A. Sawaya
    26 days ago

    That's a solid strategy. Truly a matter of preference.

  • Griffin Marr
    25 days ago

    Lori! Thank you so much! We are doing this all remotely because of Covid so it’s so hard to tell! We are gonna try and do super white on all I guess and just use flat for the ceiling, semi gloss for the trim and egg shell for the walls. Fingers crossed it has enough difference but I really don’t have a clue about exposures in the house so this seemed like the safest bet!

  • victoria b
    21 days ago

    @m111675 Are you happy with the Simply White walls/Super White trim?


    @Lori A. Sawaya I've settled on Super White for my millwork and I'm torn between Simply White or Cloud White for walls. Counters are Carrara marble. Do you like one better than other with Super White?

  • PRO
    Lori A. Sawaya
    21 days ago

    They both work with Super White but I'm not sure about how they look with the Carrara marble.


    I tend to go for wall colors like White Wisp, Intense White or Horizon with Carrara.

  • Anne Rambo_Young
    13 days ago

    Hi Lori, may I ask you a question as well? We are looking to paint a 2 story foyer and I was thinking of Simply white walls with Super White or Oxford white trim. I am also wondering if we should go with more color in this space. Have you ever used Paper White? would it pair well with super white or Oxford white?

  • Gina S
    13 days ago
    last modified: 13 days ago

    For clarity, can I put simply white from BM on my trim in semi-gloss, walls in eggshell, and then do the ceiling in PPG's Delicate White?? If I understand correctly, you prefer delicate white for 99% of ceilings. I just want to make sure I understand. I am doing this remotely also.


    Edited: I just saw that you do not like simply white on the trim. My flooring has a little grey/beige so simply white having yellow probably wouldn't work.

  • PRO
    Lori A. Sawaya
    12 days ago
    last modified: 12 days ago

    Have you ever used Paper White? would it pair well with super white or Oxford white?

    All of the colors I've specified in the last 3 or so years are in The Colorography Lab but I don't remember all of them. (not as young as I used to be)

    Paper White is one of the colors I don't remember where or why.

    I was thinking of Simply white walls with Super White or Oxford white trim.

    Simply and Super work. Oxford might be "okay" with Simply but I'd want to test that combo thoroughly.

    Paper White? would it pair well with super white or Oxford white?

    No.

  • PRO
    Lori A. Sawaya
    12 days ago

    Edited: I just saw that you do not like simply white on the trim. My flooring has a little grey/beige so simply white having yellow probably wouldn't work.


    Simply White could be the right answer for trim. If I said I didn't like it, it might have been for some reasons or another.


    Definitely want to test it with your floor. I've seen Simpy White look just off-white and not particularly yellowish.

  • Anne Rambo_Young
    12 days ago

    Thank you so much for responding. Last question. You mentioned “Intense White” I picked up the chip and sample today and really like it for my walls. Which white is your “go to” for trim if using Intense White on the walls? And which finish/sheen?


  • victoria b
    12 days ago

    @Anne Rambo_Young we tested Paper White and it looks purple! It's not the subtle color I was expecting. I personally would do Super White trim over Oxford White if paired with Simply White walls. Oxford White is nice but a bit cool and almost dirty looking to me compared to Super White. It is soft though. We are leaning towards Simply White on our walls in spaces that need more warmth and Super White everywhere else.

  • Gina S
    12 days ago

    @Lori A. Sawaya you mentioned simply white in your video. You said simply white might be too much color on trim and you'd be "stuck" with it. Maybe I misunderstood?


    I'm leaning toward White Dove BM-OC-17. I'm still waiting for my samples and hope it will look ok with the flooring and warm wood.

  • PRO
    Lori A. Sawaya
    12 days ago

    Yeah, that sounds like something I'd say. I personally like endless flexibility of plain white boring trim/doors/cabinets.


    But a lot of people don't just prefer a warmer white, they need it. Either because of their intolerance to a clean white or because of the other colors in the space they have to work with.


    I might feel "stuck" with Simply White but it could be the cat's pajamas for someone else.

  • Alyssa M
    12 days ago

    Hi @Gina S we are STUCK with Simply White on everything...I was rushed to make paint decisions during a remodel and painted all our cabinetry, trim, doors, walls and ceiling in Simply White. I loved it in the kitchen and family room, but everywhere else it is very cream...dare I say...almost yellow. It’s something I regret! In my opinion a true white is best for trim, doors and cabinetry in bathrooms or rooms with little light.

  • PRO
    Lori A. Sawaya
    12 days ago

    You mentioned “Intense White” I picked up the chip and sample today and really like it for my walls. Which white is your “go to” for trim if using Intense White on the walls? And which finish/sheen?


    Just make sure it doesn't flash purple and I'd choose Extra White. Matte on walls, satin on trim.

  • Anne Rambo_Young
    12 days ago

    @victoria b thanks so much. I will steer clear of Paper White. I loathe purple undertones. I actually have BM Shoreline in my bathrooms, and it is my favorite color in my current home, beautiful and so clean! We are moving to a new house and I thought for sure Shoreline was the color! I put it up on my 2 story foyer walls and I hate it! All I see is purple and dingy. Crazy how much paints can vary.


    Reading online, Oxford White sounded great but I picked up the chip today and I actually felt the same as you just based off the chip. I‘m drawn towards crisp clean whites and sensitive to picking out any “dingy-ness”. Lol.


    Sounds like Super white is a good option. I’m also a fan of Chantilly Lace.

  • Gina S
    12 days ago

    Thank you, @Alyssa M for sharing that. It is such a big undertaking to paint trim and cabinets. Walls aren't a big deal but the rest is. I'm sorry you're having that issue. I was tempted to not use a true white. So, again, thank you!!


    Is Decorator's White a true white? White a chroma of .2, I think it is unless I don't understand how it works.


    Is Decorator's White (149) too far from White Dove (17) on the hue scale? I'm trying to keep the white warm so it will look good with the warm cabinets. If it is too far in hue I think Cloud White (130) will work with warm wood too and is closer in hue to Decorator's White.


    Is there a true white that pairs well with Dove White? I saw pictures of someone who painted everything in Dove White with different sheens. But, the chroma is even higher than simply white. I don't want to be stuck.


    Ceilings should always be Chantilly Lace, right??


  • victoria b
    10 days ago

    @Lori A. Sawaya do you recommend satin on millwork? I was going to do semi gloss for all of our millwork.

  • PRO
    Flo Mangan
    10 days ago

    We used to do semi-gloss for trim/millwork, but for around 10 years or so now, most have gone to a "satin" finish. The newer paint products are stronger and withstand knocks and bumps better hence the move to less shine on millwork. I specify "Satin" on most homes now.

  • Jennifer Hogan
    10 days ago

    @Gina S


    L - light - how light a color is vs how dark.


    C - Chroma shows how colorful or gray a color is. The lower the chroma the more perfectly neutral gray the color.


    H - Hue - the color that is reflected by an object - Red, Orange, Yellow, Green, Blue or Violet.


    There are many things to consider when choosing a white. Understanding how white works is important.


    True white is an equal balance of all light waves being completely reflected off a surface. True black is an equal balance of all light waves being completely absorbed by a surface. Between the two you have various shades of gray. True white, true black and true gray will all have a chroma of 0. To be a true white the Light level should be 100 and to be a true black the light level would be 0. At a chroma of 0 the hue does not matter - it is a perfect balance of all color.






    Here are examples of LCH dancing around the yellow hue family.


    Same picture - 4 different backgrounds - what is in your space will change how you perceive the color.








  • Jennifer Hogan
    10 days ago

    The website I used to produce the color samples is http://davidjohnstone.net/pages/lch-lab-colour-gradient-picker


  • PRO
    Lori A. Sawaya
    10 days ago

    @Lori A. Sawaya do you recommend satin on millwork? I was going to do semi gloss for all of our millwork.


    Depends on the product. Gloss levels are not equal across products. You need to see samples of both gloss levels and go with what you love.

  • PRO
    Lori A. Sawaya
    10 days ago

    Is Decorator's White a true white? White a chroma of .2, I think it is unless I don't understand how it works.


    "True White" doesn't mean anything specific but I can bring some clarity to the term by putting it context of Chroma.


    Decorator's white has a chroma value of 0.20 which mean it's not very colorful and it's very close to a true neutral white.



  • PRO
    Lori A. Sawaya
    10 days ago

    Is Decorator's White (149) too far from White Dove (17) on the hue scale?


    No.


    Is there a true white that pairs well with Dove White? I saw pictures of someone who painted everything in Dove White with different sheens. But, the chroma is even higher than simply white. I don't want to be stuck.


    Dove White or White Dove?


  • PRO
    Lori A. Sawaya
    10 days ago

    Ceilings should always be Chantilly Lace, right??


    I'd never put Chantilly Lace on the ceiling.

  • Gina S
    2 days ago

    @Lori A. Sawaya I really like this color but it is just a little too dark. In-person it looks good with the flooring, carpet, and cabinets but in pictures, the tones seem off.


    What white should I look at if I only want it lighter? This color but not as dark.


    I think the white is perfect on the trim and doors but I don't know what color it is.


    I'm going to get a few more samplize samples. I was going to paint it all BM white dove. Thank you for all the help you have given.






  • PRO
    Lori A. Sawaya
    2 days ago

    What's the color name and number you're asking about?

  • Gina S
    2 days ago

    Lori, I wish I knew. That would help me so much. I looked in the garage and utility room and didn't find any leftover paint. :(


    Thank you for checking in.

  • Carolae
    2 days ago

    Lori, why would you never put Chantilly Lace on a ceiling? What are some whites you like for a ceiling? I’m curious because I used Chantilly Lace on all my trim, doors, and ceilings. It’s not too bright for me, but we have 2700K lighting. (My husband says lighting higher than 3000K can interfere with restful sleep, and he often doesn’t sleep well.)

  • Gina S
    2 days ago
    last modified: 2 days ago

    Could the color be Stone Harbor Greige by PPG? In about 10 days I will be there for almost 3 weeks. I am looking so forward to it. Maybe one of the neighbors knows. I've noticed the other units for sale have the same color.

    Thanks for your help!

  • PRO
    Lori A. Sawaya
    2 days ago

    Lori, why would you never put Chantilly Lace on a ceiling?


    No other reason than I think there are prettier colors of white.


    All colors 'gray out' to a certain degree on the ceiling because of the angle you view it and how light hits it.


    If you choose whites from the green-yellow or green hue family, like Chantilly Lace, they're going to look white with moments of gray.


    If you choose a white from the yellow or yellow-red hue family, then the ceiling it's going to look slightly off-white, not as stark with moments of gray.


    I simply prefer the latter.

  • Jennifer Hogan
    yesterday

    I always pick my white after I know my where I am headed with color. It is like picking a white shirt to go with a suit. Do you need ecru, cream or bright white. You don't necessarily have to have everything nailed down, but you should know what direction you are headed.


    If you paint darker, muddy colors you probably would not want Chantilly Lace, it is a bright, clear white that is so perfectly neutral that it is often used to test the undertones of other whites. Will they read blue, green, yellow, pink or purple if set next to Chantilly Lace. Too me, it is too crisp next to something like Revere Pewter, where you may want to go with Cloud White or White Dove. But if you are painting the walls the cleaner, lighter Classic Gray, Chantilly Lace will be beautiful.


    During the builders beige and white decade and when Gay became the new Beige Chantilly Lace was most often too clean and crisp. We were using a lot of mid toned muted colors. As we are moving toward more pastels and white on white looks I am seeing Chantilly Lace being used more and more.

  • victoria b
    yesterday

    I want to follow up on this thread and share that we tried the Super White trim with Simply White walls and it looks awful. They do NOT work together. Simply White really reads yellow with a touch of green and Super White looks a touch violet. I also hate the super white in general and we are so disappointed. We painted all the millwork downstairs super white last week. My best advice to anyone is don't mix whites. My other piece of advice is don't use super white for trim. I am surprised this color is so widely recommended for trim. I did test these paint colors prior to our project but nothing can prepare you for painting so much of a space. This was an expensive mistake but I want to help anyone else from making the same one!

  • Gina S
    yesterday

    Oh no, @victoria b, I'm so sorry that happened. I know you really tried to do it right. It is so much better to admit our mistakes and fix them instead of trying to fool ourselves and live with it.


    What is our plan now? Are you doing simply white everywhere??


    Thank you for the advice. I was considering using two different colors.

  • Gina S
    yesterday

    Once I get in the space I will be able to have a better idea. But, I was considering white dove BM on the trim and dove wing BM on the walls.


    https://www.houzz.com/photos/milbank-townhomes-traditional-living-room-new-york-phvw-vp~1495492

  • victoria b
    yesterday

    We are going to shift gears and do Cloud White on everything in different sheens. I don't like Simply White in my space...too green.

  • Anne Rambo_Young
    yesterday

    has anyone used Paper white or Oxford White on the walls? Our plan was simply white walls with Chantilly lace trim but the samples on the wall read a little too much yellow. We do love the chantilly lace though (and have used it in our current home and have been happy with it for the past 6 years).

  • PRO
    Flo Mangan
    yesterday

    If you don’t want any yellow use Chantilly Lace in satin or semi-gloss for trim and matte or flat for walls and ceilings.

  • victoria b
    21 hours ago

    @Anne Rambo_Young Oxford White is very pretty. Soft with a touch of cool. I'd use that everywhere. I would not mix whites. You could mix CL with Paper White maybe but PW looked purple on my walls and it was not the subtle color I was expecting.

  • victoria b
    21 hours ago

    @Gina S White Dove and Dove Wing look beautiful together! I'm going to keep Dove Wing in my back pocket. Thank you for sharing that! We have White Dove on our exterior and it's beautiful, I do like Cloud White better for inside.

  • Jennifer Hogan
    9 hours ago

    Whites, like all other neutrals, have to work with your colors and in your space.


    It seems to me that too many of the whites end up being overly complex and shift from blue to purple to yellow to green.


    I have used the same white in my home for years and have specified it more often than any other white for use in other homes.


    The company who made the white I use was bought out by Valspar and discontinued by SW when they bought out BM, but the company was Devine Color and the White was named Icing.


    Benjamin Moore can create the color match for Devine Icing - it is in their computer.


    You may or may not know that every base is a slightly different color, so paint formulas are specific to the base that it is mixed in.


    The formula for 1 gallon of Devine Icing In Benjamin Moore Advance, Satin, Base 1 is:

    Y3 ( Oxide Yellow) 0 x 0.7500

    W1 (White) 0 x 31.2500


    In Benjamin Moore Regal Select, Eggshell. Base 1 it is:

    Y2 (Organic Yellow) 0 x 1.0000

    O1 (Orange) 0 x 0.2500

    W1 (White) 0 x 30.7500


    Oxide yellow is an orange yellow


    So essentially this is white paint with titanium white added to make it a true clean white with just the lightest touch of orange yellow to warm it up.


    I don't have a can of Simply White, but I believe that it is also a simple formula with just Yellow oxide and gray added to the white base. What happens when we desaturate or add gray to yellow? This is why some people see green undertones when they use Simply White.




  • Jennifer Hogan
    9 hours ago

    When I am testing whites or light neutrals I go big, often painting 1/2 a sheet of drywall or a single wall before I commit to the color. Why? Because you simply cannot see the subtle undertones in whites and light neutrals without a big sample.

  • Gina S
    8 hours ago

    Jennifer, thank you for your explanations. When you showed me my color on three different backgrounds I didn't understand what you were saying. Then with my search of white colors on Houzz I found another post where you explained it and it clicked. So, interesting how different these colors look and it explains why the same color looks so different for other people.

  • Anne Rambo_Young
    8 hours ago

    @Jennifer Hogan I agree, I think that is my best bet here and will give that a shot. We have decided to use the same white on both the walls and trim. Now just need to decide which white!

  • Jennifer Hogan
    8 hours ago

    Thank you Gina, it makes my day when I am able to help someone with color!

  • Gina S
    8 hours ago

    Anne, on BM's website they had chantilly lace with cloud white and it looked really soothing. Take a look at their inspiration pictures.

  • hu1967910
    8 hours ago

    Sorry to butt in, but I love discussions of white paint. We just bought a house and painted every room in SW Alabaster, on trim as well as walls (for ceilings, we just told painters to use "ceiling white," so have no idea if it has a name). We liked BM Simply White, but went with Alabaster at the last minute. It looks different in every room, but doesn't read green or pinky or blue anywhere. If anything, it leans warm, but I wouldn't go so far as to say yellow. I was worried at first about not accenting the trim with a whiter white, but now I love the effect of having the same color with slightly different sheen.