Jerrod, LGs Sanitize and Extra hot do get up to 158 as they advertise on there website. Mine actually read 160 the other day during a Heavy Duty Extra Hot cycle.

Toronto Veterinarian, yes, water level is a really interesting subject. On certain cycles, my new LG has absolutely zero extra water in the tub beyond was has been absorbed into the clothes. This is the type of cycle the Lorraine Furniture guy was running that removed ketchup the best. I guess it makes sense that detergent concentrated in such a small amount of water would have superior stain removing ability. I have found that such cycles do need a lot of rinses, however.

On the Speed Queen front load models suggested as a possible alternative by Littlegreeny and Sea Sea, there is a lot to like about the company's current residential frontload models, the FF7005 and 7002. These are pretty much the same as the SQ residential front loaders produced in 2015-18, so If you want to research them in prior posts here, have a look at these threads by sandiegosteve and Jeff Caban.

What's different is that the new models have added the allergy rinse and santitze-with-oxy option as Littegreeny mentioned. Near as I can tell, these options replaced the previous washers' option buttons for two and three extra rinses. ETA: Correction, the sanitize-with-oxy program replaced the rinse-and-spin program and the "allergy rinse" option replaced the former option for three extra rinses.

Also, the motor control boards are now the higher-quality ones that replaced the substandard ones that bedeviled units produced in 2017 and early 2018. (Those problems with the outsourced control board apparently were what generated most of the service calls noted for Speed Queen front loaders in the Yale Appliance Blog reports on washer reliablity. Near as I can tell, SQ replaced the older boards under warranty).

If you buy and take delivery before September 30, the washer (and dryer if you are buying one, as well) get a 10 year parts and labor in-home warranty.

Further up-thread, Annette mentioned her husband's concern about the SQ's load capacity. The FF and FR drums are mid-sized capacity (3.5 cu. ft/22 lbs.) That puts them about mid-way between the size of compact front load washer capacity (2 to 2.4 cu. ft., 12 to 17 lbs) and the 4.3 to 4.5 cu. ft. capacity that seems to be the major brands' current standard. I'm recalling but cannot find a thread we had here last winter about the practical capacity of the SQ front loaders. IIRC, it came down to something like this: the SQ front loaders can handle king size duvets and comforters which deflate when wetted but probably are not big enough for the thick, not-very-compressible polyester or cotton stuffed king size quilts that some foiks have.

As always, there are "buts."

* But the SQ FL models are $1900, almost as expensive as Miele's TOL W-1 model.

* But they do not have an onboard water heater.

* But, while the "hot" is as hot as arrives from your house's water heater, the ATC seems to only give "warm" at around 80°F.

* But, to get more control over the hot and warm settings, you need to do some jiggering such as by adding a small, 120v in-line water heater into the cold water feed line. Depending on where you set the heater temp when you engage it for laundry, you can produce washer temps anywhere from warmer warms up to 145°F hot fiills.

* But, that can be fiddly and adds another $150 to $200 to the cost.

* Also, many SQ dealers will charge extra for delivery and installation (at least, they all do in my area.).

So, getting one of the SQ front loaders is double or more the cost for the LG WM4370 and WM3900 models that you have been considering.

>>>Yes, the 3900 has superseded the 3770 in LG's line-up. Costco.com had it for $850 over the weekend but there may be a long wait on getting one...

If you need a washer sooner, you might want to look at the WM4370HWA or 4370HKA which are versions of the 3770 with different cosmetics and which still seem to be available<<<

I ordered a 3900 washer/electric dryer pair from Costco last Sunday 7/28/19 and it's already scheduled for delivery & installation this coming Tuesday. That's a 9-day turnaround which doesn't seem bad at all, especially for Costco. I'm in New Jersey which might make a difference though, since the warehouses are probably nearby.

Folks, once again, be aware that "sanitize" is a marketing term as a cycle. Also, again, regardless of what the setting on the washer might be, without an onboard heater there is no hotter temperature than the water heater setting. So even with 120F water heater setting, the wash is only "warm." A 120F wash is fine for most things. However, a true hot wash starts at 140F and, for that, an onboard heater is needed. Some allergen cycles guarantee washes in the 130 range, which is good. But the 158F referenced above is the best for stain removal, any type of true sanitizing, and for whitening if needed. As a reference -- an egg will start to set at 160F.

Speed Queen. Not the 2018 model , though, if any are still being sold. There’s also a Maytag commercial washer that comes highly recommended. Hang on, will return with lInk to a guys reviews I trust, He’s a former Speed Queen dealer who lost his dealership due to honest reviews. He loathed the 2018 model but says they reverted back to features of quality models in 2019

https://youtu.be/m-7rzT56Ut0

Here’s the take on the 2019 Speed Queen. Having a good transmission is a crucial factor. https://youtu.be/dk2P5_7g_jg

For clarity, J Corn is referring to Speed Queen's TR and TC top-loading washers while while Sea Sea, littlegreeny and I were discussing the FF and FR front load models.

I am glad to hear that the new Lg's deliver a good 158 F to 160 F temperature and it's good to know you can raise a temp if you need too. My concern with water levels is not in the wash portion of the cycle. In a front loader less water is probably better so that the wash action is not interfered with. My concern is in the rinses. I want enough water present so that it can adequately dilute the detergent concentration, and I want spins after each rinse to help with that.

I saw the 3700 video's on Lorraine's site. It did very well with the ketchup test, however the guy doesn't do any type of testing on how effectively a machine rinses. In fact CR or most other review sites don't either.

I found the LG 4370 to be a very good rinser, especially with turbowash enabled. It does multiple spray rinses during the interim and final spins and does one deep rinse. Other than the delicate and speed cycles, it does interim spins between the wash and rinses and between each rinse as well, unlike Electrolux, Maytag and Whirlpool front loaders. You can also add up to three additional rinses.

Thanks Littlegreeny. You mentioned spray rinses. Does the machine use the Turbo nozzles to do the spray rinses?

No, it has a dedicated spray rinse nozzle at the top of the door opening that it uses.

Here is a video of the wash/turbowash/spray rinse action of LG washers. The 4370 is one model higher than this washer but you'll get the idea. The new 2019 models (3500, 3700, 3900) seem to use use less water than the 4370 and are rougher on fabrics, that's why I don't recommend them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hagvrfgZuaY

Why would the new models be rougher on clothes? Has the agitation motion changed? Tub shape changed? Something to do with the turbowash 360 jets?

I haven't seen any professional reviews of the 3900 yet but I've seen good things about the 3500 and 3700 models. Both were given high praise and named Editor's Choice at Reviewed.com which made no mention of any rough handling of clothes. In fact, Reviewed says, " After a week of testing in our labs, the LG WM3700HWA emerged as an excellent washer, one of the best we’ve ever tested."

Please explain.

Consumer Reports tested all these models and the gentleness scores for the new LGs are lower than the older models. The 3500 and 3700 got a "good" score for gentleness. The 3900 only got a "fair" score. The older 4370 got an "excellent" gentleness score. They test washers using the normal wash/heavy soil setting.

Thanks. I don't have a subscription to Consumer Reports. Did they offer any comments on those scores or were they just shown on the ratings chart?

I attached their comments about the 3900. Actually, despite the 3900 having only a fair score for gentleness, it was the highest-rated front load washer with a score 87/100. The 4370 had a score of 85. The wash performance for the 4370 was very good instead of excellent, but it's gentler on clothes than the 3900.

Here are their comments about the 4370:

Thanks again. I'm hoping to seeing more 3900 reviews in the near future. Most of the professional review publications (except Cnet) seem to love LG laundry appliances in general, but there are usually differences in the details from one lab to the next so it will be interesting to see if the others have similar findings about the gentleness.

I just bought a 3900 with almost no reviews to go on because the model is so new. I took a leap of faith that the successor to the well-reviewed, but discontinued 3770 would be a great choice. Delivery is next week so I guess I'll see how I like it soon enough.

I think it makes sense that a machine that uses less water and cleans better might be less gentle. I recently purchased the 3700 and was disappointed to see that it no longer features the Water Plus option. It seems LG has phased that feature out of all of its washers. My son came downstairs yesterday wearing a newly washed shirt complaining that it felt scratchy. I figured I would just have to experiment more with spin speed and drying time/temp, but perhaps the low water level is causing pilling? Ugh.

Looking now to replace top of the line (at that time) LG largest capacity W & D, now six years old. Three repair calls on the washer in last three years (same repair twice). Down at least two weeks with each repair. Under warranty for first two, not under warranty for this last one (which appears to be a water pump issue). Works great when it works, when it doesn't service is beyond annoying. Local repair shops (with good reputations) won't touch them, probably because LG will not sell them parts. LG wants you to use their "Approved" LG repair centers, which are distant, even though we live within a 150,000 populated area. So repair appointments are at least one week distant, then waiting for parts, then another week to get back to fix...IF that does it, if not then more weeks waiting. To replace these beautiful (and they are) losers, not even looking at a brand unless it is manufactured in the US and has local repair available.

My plan is to head to Costco in the next few days. I will get prices on the 3770, 3900, and 4370. Whichever is available and at the best price is probably how I’ll go. The thing I like about the 3770 is that it is apparently easier to do diy repairs if need be, in that you can access the workings pretty easily. As we are now much farther out from the city, service is an issue, no matter the brand.

" Looking now to replace top of the line (at that time) LG largest capacity W & D, now six years old. Three repair calls on the washer in last three years "

Was that a front loading washer? I'm always surprised when I hear stories like that because I've had 2 sets of LG (front loader) machines without the need for service calls at all.......My first set, bought 16 years ago, was left behind after 4 years when I moved, and I immediately bought my next set which lasted over 11 years without a hitch - and I think if I hadn't used too much liquid detergent, it would have lasted even longer. I'm not saying your story is wrong, only that it's surprisingly different from my own experience.

And I won't buy US made appliances if I can help it, but that's a different story......

>>>" My plan is to head to Costco in the next few days. I will get prices on the 3770, 3900, and 4370. Whichever is available ..."<<<

AFAIK, the LG washers are on-line only at Costco.com and are not stocked in the warehouse stores. Your local Costco might be different, but might be advisible to check with the front desk to avoid disappointment.

Hafamily, sounds like there might be detergent residue in your laundry. I suggest using no more than 2 Tbsp of detergent per load and add an extra rinse to all cycles.

Rachel, LGs are easy to repair yourself. Many videos on YouTube and parts are readily available online. A washer should last at least 10 years so I’d opt to repair instead of replace.

Good advice to call first, to make sure Costco has them at the store.

We are on week four of a nightmare with our whirlpool washing machine drum cracking in half. Even though it is out of warranty, they agreed to fix it...but on their own timeline...two weeks for someone to look at it, two weeks for the part to arrive, And another week before it is being fixed. We are in the middle of another reno, so I don’t want to buy new machines right now if I can help it, but if anything happens again, I am going right to my local appliance store for speed queen washers and dryers. I am done with this mass produced plastic crap, it’s just not built to last and life is too busy to deal with this nonsense.

re "rougher on fabric" --

Seeing that nobody has responded to the rhe questions, I'll take a shot.

Maybe it is not a big deal for a normal cycle because of the inherent limitations of the gentleness testing and that may be why Consumer Reports still gives highest ratings to the WM3900 despite scoring only fair on the "gentleness" test.

The product evaluators' "gentleness" ratings are a handy way for an objective comparison but it can be hard to know how much weight to give the results. Basically, the "gentleness" tests used by Consumer Reports, Reviewed and CNET check for how much additional fraying you get on some standardized, pre-frayed, rather delicate cloths added to a load of cotton towels, pillowcases and bedsheets per standardized test protocols published by the Association of Home Appliance Manufacturers (AHAM). The load is then washed on a machine's "most aggressive normal cycle." (Quoted from CR.)

There is a pretty good plain language explanation of the testing protocol, with photos, at CNET which you can find at this link. (I've seen similar explanations by CR and Reviewed, but can't find the links at the moment.)

Years ago I saw some threads here in which some long-time laundry-phile forum members gave advice that I recall as follows. The wear test mostly tells you about machine design tradeoffs. It is not as though the test identifies machines likely to shred clothing in normal washes. It is much more refined, giving an indication that over the long term (years), some machines' normal cycles may cause more wear than others. To reduce worries about wear, don't wash delicate fabrics with the towels, separate towels from sheets and jeans from shirts, etc. The machine design tradeoff seems to be that the more gentle you make normal cycles the longer those cycles have to run to get similar cleaning results. Anyway, don't we want "the most aggressive normal cycle" to be . . . well, aggressive when we need it?

Here is another LG that uses the old but gentle wash action and is still available. I forgot about the interesting rinse action on the normal cycle with turbowash enabled. This machine is a whopper too with a 5.2 cubic foot capacity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQ6bHE3wNZg

My LG 3900 washer & dryer arrived. The washer replaces a 30-year old Kenmore top loader that lasted forever until the transmission finally failed. It was completely old-school, so I'm learning a different way to do laundry with this LG set. The old agitator machine was known to shred our sheets and towels at times so compared to that, I'm sure the LG 3900 is gentler despite its CR "Fair" gentleness rating.

Before I started, I downloaded the LG SmartThinQ app to my phone, connected the machines to WiFi and then enabled the Alexa skill. As soon as I connected the washer to WiFi, it downloaded a firmware update.

This made me wonder, how long does LG intend to support these products with firmware updates and app support? Most manufacturers seem to feel entitled to stop supporting their web-connected products after a couple of years which is annoying enough it it's a TV or smartphone, but would be really frustrating with a major appliance that I expect to last a long time. LG advertises a 10-year warranty on the tub and motor, so if that's the advertised lifetime will they still be pushing firmware and app updates 10 years from now? Somehow I doubt it. In fact, will the SmartThinQ app even still exist or will LG have moved on to a different one?

As for Alexa, the skill does not announce when the laundry cycle is finished!!! How useless is that? Hopefully LG plans to improve on that.

Anyway, web connectivity isn't really required to do laundry, I hope. I decided to try LG's default settings first before adding any cycle modifications, so I used default Towels and Normal settings for my initial loads. I'll probably add an extra rinse to a load of towels next time though, as they seemed to retain a stronger scent of softener than I'm used to. Otherwise the laundry came out clean, and the "Normal" cycle took under half an hour. Great!

The machines look nice. I worry about the longevity and repairability of the touch control panel, though. When the rotary dial on my old Kenmore broke I bought a replacement on ebay for $30. I feel like if the electronic control fails on a machine like the LG, the cost of repairs could exceed the value of the machine. But other than worries about the future, I like the LG set. I'm pretty sure once I learn how the cycles behave, and know when to add modifiers like extra rinses, they'll do a great job. Would I recommend them? Well I don't have much to compare them to but yes, so far I would.

As for Alexa, I guess I'll just ask her myself to set a reminder to unload the laundry in XX minutes, just like I did with the old non-connected '80s Kenmore.

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><md>Carnivore- I’ll be really interested to hear your continued evaluation of the 3900. My 3700 cleans great too (but takes much looonger of course), but the rinsing with such little water is totally inadequate. I’m curious to see if the 3900 uses more water during rinses.

Incidentally, the 3900 came out days after we purchased the 3700.

littlegreeny, yes, I’m sure rinsing is an issue. Funny thing is, I’m having a terrible time with rinsing even when there isn’t a ton of suds in the wash. It seems that there comes a point where I keep rinsing and rinsing but suds level doesn’t decrease.

Here’s an example (pardon the pink shirt in with lights, that was a mistake). I often cannot get beyond this level of suds:

I just found out your are only supposed to used two teaspoons of laundry detergent in the front load, high Efficiency washers. I was shocked by that info, but it could be why you are experiencing over sudsing.

I have a history of getting detergent rashes, so I always add an extra rinse, or use a cycle that defaults to three rinses. I just think that three rinses will do much better than two. Yes it adds time, but so what? I think It is better to rinse away as much of the detergent as possible. If people are coming from a top loader I've heard that they should wash several loads without detergent in the beginning, to make sure any residue that might have been left over in the clothes gets removed.

I think the two teaspoon suggestion is fine for moderate soil, but for heavily soiled items I like to use 1 tablespoon of detergent. Whites like underwear get two tablespoons plus 1 teaspoon. I don't think there is any standard for dosing because the amount of detergent depends on the soil present in each load. For some loads I might even use 1 teaspoon if there is no visible soil. Then there is load size. I use more for large loads, and less fo small loads.

I've seen a variety of these sorts of recommendations on the internet.

Spruce recommends 2 tsp.

Cnet uses 59 grams (about 2 fl oz) for their controlled front loader tests.

I remember reading somewhere else, use around 1 fl oz and never more than 2 fl oz in a front loader.

LG says follow the detergent manufacturer's directions and use the detergent manufacturer's measuring device. With Tide HE, that's about 1 fl oz for the cap's "1" line recommended for regular loads, nearly 2 fl oz to the "3" line for large loads, and nearly 4 fl oz to the "5" line the Tide recommends for "full-size he loads". That seems excessive compared to the recommendations from other places.

I was also wondering if a powdered detergent is better or worse in a front loader. There are lots of glowing reviews about the Persil powder imported from Germany that you can buy on Amazon. I wonder why it would be so much better than detergents you can buy in North America? Does the German stuff contain phosphates or something?

Carnivore, congrats on the new washer! Let us know how you like it.

Hafamily, most folks do use too much detergent in front load washers which leads to poorly rinsed laundry and stinky washer syndrome.

You can get your clothes clean using no more than 2 tablespoons of detergent or one pod per load. Don’t trust the detergent manufacturers recommendations as they are in the business of selling you more detergent. If you measure out the minimum recommended amount of detergent on the bottle, it’s likely around 4 tablespoons, which is way too much.

What detergent and how much were you using?

Powder vs Liquid:

The user manual for my washer says that the combination of liquid detergent and cool wash temperatures contribute to mold and odors in the machine. If I continuously use a temperature of 105 F or what my washer calls warm, or use cold washes, the machine will display a message telling me to run a clean machine cycle, or a very hot wash of at least 140 F.

I can usually stop the message by running the extra white cycle which only uses 140 F or another cycle that uses 140 F. After that, the message will stop being displayed. I don’t know if using liquid causes a problem but it seems like using low temperatures in combination with liquid detergents might.

I think liquid has a place. It is good for heat sensitive fabrics like gym clothes, lingerie and other delicate items. I think it is even good for greasy stains. I generally use a combination of powder and liquid on laundry days just in case. I use liquid to pre-treat heavily soiled items too.

I use the German Persil powder. It is very good for whites, since it contains a lot of oxygen bleach. It has a built in water softener but not phosphates. The detergent for colors is not for whites, but It is good for colors because it contains an ingredient that prevents dyes in the water from redepositing on fabrics, I like this powder because it rinses easier than liquids will. When using powder is when I will use the dosages I mentioned above. One box lasts me about over a year, but I am not washing for a family of 6 or anything like that.

Something else to bear in mind when using HE liquid detergents is that more and more of them are concentrated at 2x and higher over what they used to be.

@hafamily5: in addition to adding extra rinses, you might try re-washing in warm or hot water and no detergent. Repeat until you are not seeing rinse cycles like the one in the photo you posted above. Some posters here have reported needing five or more detergent-less washes before the suds go away.

Aso, if you have not already done so, it might be helpful to first run a tub clean cycle and check for suds at the end of that., too.

hafamily5 - " Funny thing is, I’m having a terrible time with rinsing even when there isn’t a ton of suds in the wash. It seems that there comes a point where I keep rinsing and rinsing but suds level doesn’t decrease."

Try putting one piece of worn clothing into that same load you showed above and run another cycle. Whatever dirt will attach itself to the suds, or visa versa, and they'll be gone. That is not a horrendous amount of suds in a rinse cycle, and that's what I do.

When there is way more suds in a rinse cycle, and usually the 2nd rinse is worse when this happens, I remove the finished load of laundry, run a quick/express cycle to flush out all the excess suds, then I add one or two pieces of dirty laundry to it and the remaining detergent in the load of wash attach to THAT dirt, and it all goes away. Often I will do *that* wash cycle on an express cycle setting. That's what works best and fastest for me, instead of a bazillion rinses.

Everyone is offering excellent advice. I second the suggestion to rewash your laundry with no detergent. Your prior washer likely left detergent residue in all your laundry and it's going to take one or more cycles in your new machine to remove the built up residue.

One aspect of which to be aware is that some detergents are formulated for the fabric to retain some residual surfactants, possibly related to scent retention, which can cause some "sudsing" in the rinse. IMO if the rinse water is a bit bubbly but does not feel slippery to the fingers, then there's no cause for concern.
If the photo hafamily5 shows above is the final rinse, then that does appear to be a problem being that the water looks cloudy and sudsy moreso than just aerated/bubbly.

Excess sudsing of course is not a good thing ... but UNDERdosing
detergent is also bad and can contribute to musty/smutzy washers due to
laundry soils not being sequestered in the wash water and drained away,
adhering instead to the interior of the outer tub, exterior of the inner
drum, etc. Also build-up of mineral deposits in hard water situations,
which can lead to worn seals (due to mineral residue accumulating at
the interface between the seal and rotating shaft when residual water dries), which in turn leads
to bearing failure when water breaches the seal.

The warnings I hear about "suds getting into the bearings" is nonsense. Water doesn't get into the bearings (unless the seals are compromised) so why would suds? Suds is just super-bubbly wash water.

Regards to powder vs. liquid. Liquids are thick and sticky and have preservatives in the formula, present more "chemical" formulation challenges for manufacture than powders. Contrary to popular belief they don't mix instantly into the water, they need to "dissolve" into it. Much of this can be avoided by washing the majority of loads in hot water (if using the designated Normal cycle which is the most-restricted on temperature where hot may be 95°F ... but pay attention to the characteristics of your machine to learn its quirks), or warm (and hot when appropriate) on other more-aggressive cycles, and regular/recurring use of the Heavy or Sanitary or Allergen cycle to get a temperature more toward actual hot. If you run 7 loads per week for a family, that doesn't mean wash 5 in cold, one in warm, and one in hot. It means wash 1 in cold, 1 or 2 in warm and the rest in some version of hot. IMO.

Wow, so much information! Apologies to the op for derailing this thread a bit, though the rinsing capabilities of the new LGs are probably pertinent to your decision. Thank you for all the rinsing advise. I'll say, I've been doing about 5+ rinses per load thus far, lol, so you are all probably right about detergent residue from my former machine in the clothes or excessive detergent use. I have re-run some warm loads without detergent when regular rinsing didn't seem to be doing its job and couldn't tell if it helped at the time, but will try again and pay closer attention.

There seems to be such a fine line between too little and too much detergent. I've been using Cheer powder, Tide PureClean, and Kirkland pods. I think it was the tide in the above photo, which I understand can be a real pain when it comes to rinsing. I believe I poured halfway to line one, so not a lot, but threw some OxiClean in there too, which can also be hard to rinse. The water was definitely still cloudy, which could have been the oxiclean.

What an interesting idea to throw dirty item into a sudsy wash to capture the excess detergent! I will definitely try that!

Adding a bit of cooking oil (to the wash) or liquid fabric softener (to the wash or rinse) also kills oversudsing.

hafamily5, this is 14 shirts in my current HE toploader (running in HE mode, it also has deep-fill cycles), with six tbsp of Cheer powder (and 2 tbsp of STPP). Some mild sudsing during the pretreatment period (that's concentrated wash water showering over the load) and essentially no suds in the agitated wash (forward to 10 mins) other than some bubbles from aeration that quickly dissipate.

Dadoes, thanks. I guess I had been trying to dose so as to see a little bit of suds in the water, but perhaps I am wrong in doing that. I bought some fabric softener yesterday to try to help with rinsing too.

You mentioned you've used Cheer powder. It's very low-sudsing in my experience. I have hard water (private well, no mechanical/household softener) but I add STPP to *every* load which functions as a water softener (among other things). I get more sudsing from liquids such as Persil ProClean 2-in-1. Dosing liquids is more tricky on small loads due to the higher product concentration vs. powders. The worst oversudsing I get is washing pillows with liquids but there's a lot of aeration involved with foam and fiber-fill pillows. I've never used Tide liquids. Tide powder, yes, it generates more suds than Cheer but not excessive. Liquids tend to be harder to rinse than powders.

I am also on well water, moderately hard. I’ve been trying both liquid and powder, but am not sure I can see much of a difference yet. Sadly, I seem to be sensitive to the fragrance in cheer (and most else), so from here on out I’m going to be choosing from the fragrance free options out there.

Have you tried the All stainlifters Free Clear powder? I get ours at Walmart. It does not get sudsy in our moderately hard water, rinses out well, and does a good job of cleaning, IMHO. We don't have kids playing in dirt ... long past that stage in life ... so everyone's needs differ.

Cavimum, All is definitely on my list of detergents to try, though I have a coupon for a free P&G product so will probably try Tide Free first. We also don't have very dirty washes anymore, though I'm clumsy and still seem to get my fair share of food stains.

I have had good luck with Whirlpool FL machine. Have had it for about 2 years now so it's relatively a new one. It has the sanitize feature (which I felt I had to have, but I don't think I have used it)