Too expensive for just a condenser and coil (even Infinity)!

Mike, last quote item is “run new refrigerant lines”.

OP, replace the furnace, saving it will be a very false economy, especially when you have to replace it later.

It is nice equipment but pricey. The prices include the $325 Carrier rebates. The price seems high for central PA. Have you gotten other quotes?

What is the model number of your Bryant furnace? If it is only a single stage, then buying an Infinity 2-stage condenser and controller is a waste of money in my opinion. You don't know the SEER unless the dealer can determine what the equivalent Carrier furnace to your current Bryant furnace model.

If your Bryant furnace is 15 years old, then you should consider replacing it also. Depending on the model the $175 rebate increase to $600.

Will the line set be replaced? At these prices it should be.

I have an appointment next week with another Carrier dealer.

I missed the refrigerant line item.

You should should also consider the Carrier Performance series. Not as expensive as the Infinity. The Bryant equipment is the same and usually less money.

Update: I have a second Carrier dealer out next week for a second proposal.

Question: Why can’t I just replace the compressor? It seems the traditional response is: “You may as well replace the whole system”. WHY? Purchasing a new system is 10-times the cost of replacing just he compressor.

What quote have you received for replacing “just the compressor”? There are several theory’s and factors regarding repair vs replace on home climate control equipment.

1) How reliable do you want your system to be? Since the average system is worn out in between 12 and 20 years, you are in that range. Do you drive cars beyond 7-10 years old, cause that a similar calculation. You can fix it piecemeal, but you will end up with a somewhat brand new system that’s 15 years out of date with regard to performance and efficiency.

2) What type of coolant does your system use? They are phasing out older coolants, and they will become increasing costly to service, if/when you get a leak.

3) How efficient is your old system versus what you are considering? This impacts your running costs over time.

4) Can you get the compressor/is it a reliable replacement or a cheap copy/will it exactly match the previous specs and let the system work at peak efficiency? A lot of replacement parts are being made overseas, often in China, with less quality control than the originals. The lifespan of a cheap, knockoff compressor might be 5 years versus 15 years for the original.

5) When replacing a home climate control system, matching of equipment is vital to get the promised performance. As is noted above, the new, high-efficiency A/C they quote will NOT achieve the promised efficiency with a 15 year-old, single speed furnace...especially in an area with moderate or greater heating demand.

Very informative... Thank you. My local HVAC guy quoted $1,000 to replace the compressor.

With a Bryant compressor, or a generic “equivalent”?

I have to assume a generic.

Here's the reality, you see that "17 SEER" and "16 SEER" that's plastered on that proposal...it ain't valid with your old heater. To get that actual result, you need a numbers matching system that's been shown to perform like that. An AHRI number for a system allows you to look that up and validate the performance, a non-numbers matching system may work just fine, or it may be less (or more) efficient. Systems are built to work with certain airflows and pressures, and even a perfectly matched system can be let down by a poor install too.

As has been mentioned, if you elect to keep the old heater, buy a single speed system...and expect to pay more to replace the heater later than now. Question, do you use more heating or cooling?

Again... I can not say enough how I appreciate this information. Also I wanted to state that this is not about the money, just getting my monies worth.

I use "heat" very little, but cooling all year round. Cooling has a device added to keep the AC unit(s) from freezing-up in the winter (Central PA)... I don't remember the name of the device. .

I have in-fact requested quotes to include replacing the furnace. And AHRI for all. So, I will be back with this information for review.

Coolant is Puron.

Honestly, I'd just replace the compressor. That should get you another 3-5 years, by which time the entire system can be replaced with a high efficiency, matched system. In any event, if you go the replacement route, get at least 3 more bids as your original bid was just too high.

If your current system is Puron/R410 versus R-22, then service costs would be reasonable, so a compressor fix might work, as sktn77a suggests. But I would want to know why the compressor failed. Dis they provide a reason for its failure (not always determinable)?.

I am curious how you are able to run the AC during the winter in Central PA. Perhaps the compressor failure has something to do with winter operation.

Additional information.

Well, the good news is that It is indeed a R-410 unit, so compressor replacement would be a possibility without inordinate possible costs if it goes wrong.

I am curious how you are able to run the AC during the winter in Central PA. Perhaps the compressor failure has something to do with winter operation.

If properly controlled, no. The key aspects of failure due to winter operation is slugging the compressor with refrigerant. This can be easily controlled and assisted with crankcase heater and condenser fan cycling control.

Most residential systems don't have commercial type controls, but if you know controls --- you too could become a 'control freak'.

If controlled properly it's subjected to less failure than running in the summer, because heat is more known to kill an AC than cold weather... provided of course you know what you are doing. --- that is always a killer in cold weather or hot weather.

As you know Mike, curiosity is what killed the cat. So imagine what that could do to your poor AC, improperly controlled.

I used to work somewhere (over 20 years ago) in which we ran air conditioner's for data room's climate control in wind chill temps of -40 below zero. These kinds of things are a specialty. You know you're worth your salt if you can do that....

To the OP: Given this type of application I would replace the condenser minimally. Because you use this system all year long you get a 10 year part warranty on new condenser (properly registered) where as if you only replace the compressor it's only 1 year.

I service the Katy, Texas area.

I use the AC all-year-round for a medical condition. I do have a "device" on the outside unit that I am told is more often used in commercial situations where AC is used all-year-round.

Still absorbing and pondering this information. While I wait for the Carrier/Bryant quotes... And given the high level of expertise here... What compressor can my local HVAC guy purchase to install?

This/these appear to be me:

Bryant Two Speed Plus Model 598B w/Puron 598BN036-A 13.0 16.5
Bryant Two Speed Plus Model 598B w/Puron 598BN036-A 15.0 15.0

1. I have decided not to go the route of just replacing the Compressor
   2) Per the excellent feedback I have received, I have decided for a complete replacement/upgraded solutions.

Carrier and Bryant re-proposals attached:

FYI: A second Carrier proposal from another dealership is Pending.

So far I see the Bryant quote reuses the refrigerant lines and electrical, while the Carrier replaces the refrigerant lines and adds some new electrical while reusing some. Just something to keep in mind when comparing, the other, more knowledgeable posters can comment on the way to safely reuse the lines/electrical.

I don't understand why the Bryant quote would not include the same installation stuff as the Carrier quote. Thanks for pointing this out.

Refrigerant lines and electrical.... much of this comes down to experience. Some companies doing those things might be just doing them to stand out as doing more to potentially prevent a problem.

Maybe they discovered a sizing problem in the current refrigerant lines? Maybe the compressor failure is scaring them because of how this system is operated.

Maybe the electrical lines are more of an aesthetic issue? are these exterior whips from disconnect to condenser or what? What type of disconnect is used? Maybe it's a code change in the area.... the reasons can sometimes run the gamut.

I typically only replace refrigerant lines when there are sizing issues (either too big or too small.) Compressor failures can happen due to old age, so this doesn't necessarily point to anything substantial given the OP posted the info off the current AC condenser. 2004 puts it right at 15 years which is the national average life of an AC unit.

Electrical: as long as it's copper wire and sized properly for the load attached to it... new or old isn't going to matter.

Curve-Ball: Not a Bryant or Carrier?

Since I am considering a complete system purchase... What other manufacture(s) should I consider? I have a zoned set-up. Thanks all!

Depends who sells what around you. Worth multiple quotes and then comparison.

Two reputable companies selling Lennox and American-Standard; Each have Zoning option(s). Requested quotes... Stay tuned!

I may have not responding individually to all your questions... But be assured, they were used in making my decisions. Thank you.

1) I have eliminated Bryant as a choice

2) The second Carrier quote is still pending. It has been a week since they did an on-site survey; Was hoping to have this back by now

3) No response as yet from either from Lennox and American-Standard local dealerships

4) Attached is the updated Carrier quote from my current HVAC provider - These are the folks I have my maintenance contract with

Okay. I will take a read of the Performance System again.

One thing you haven’t addressed, did your previous system perform in a good manner? Did it have any issues, like not dehumidifying enough, being too noisy or expensive to run!

These are all good reasons to get a high end system...but if it was doing fine till it started pushing up the daisies, then you have to compare the savings from an advanced Infinity system to the additional cost. If you look at a 16 SEER Performance System, you may find a better value for you, depending on your circumstance.

I don't see anything about allowing winter operation of the AC.

Freeze-Stat and Low-Ambient-Kit is part of the proposal. But since is not clear... I have asked to have it noted on the proposal. Thanks!

One thing you haven’t addressed, did your previous system perform in a good manner? Did it have any issues, like not dehumidifying enough, being too noisy or expensive to run!

These are all good reasons to get a high end system...but if it was doing fine till it started pushing up the daisies, then you have to compare the savings from an advanced Infinity system to the additional cost. If you look at a 16 SEER Performance System, you may find a better value for you, depending on your circumstance.

>>> The main issue is that the AC compressor died :-) Otherwise, no major issues. I can't accurately speak to cost-to-operate, and humidification; Because of the Air-handler and Central 2-zone Dehumidifier also installed.

Since last I posted... I have spoke to both American-Standard and Lennox dealers... I am not impressed! So I am removing them as options.

Second Carrier proposal received. The pricing is more attractive. 2-year labor included, instead of a 1-year with the first Carrier proposal.

Although the dealer/company will be new to me, they have been referred to me by my local HVAC guy; Who does my plumbing and other HVAC stuff on my other properties. So...

If the previous system did fine by you, the choice of a single speed system is an option to keep in mind. Less costly, the experts would have to weigh in on relative efficiency vs cost savings...

Here is the current proposal I am considering:

Folks,

As the last proposal may be the final proposal... Please scrutinize it using your expertise.

Thanks!

I believe I read about "two-stage" and "modulating". If the AC is two-stage, need thoughts on a two-stage or modulation furnace?

Sure, you can pair a two stage condenser with a modulating furnace. The furnace quoted above is a 2 stage furnace.

I would add a whole house pleated filter media cabinet. New refrigerant lineset?...fresh puron, not recycled...on the 80 K 2 stage Infinity furnace, I suspect you will run on low stage 90% of time....what size furnace are you replacing? Ask dealer for a thorough inspection of your ductwork....

TD

Can you post the prices on the second quote?

Posting...

As far any reuse of stuff... I have been a customer of the above folks for 10-years; As a result I have a good relationship with the maintenance/install manager. I spoke to him, and he assures me nothing will be reused. He said they want nothing old that would compromise their installation.

You might have noticed the two new proposals are not from the previous company. The previous went lost in the wind for over a week. I did finally here from them... But by then I had lost my confidence in them.

If the "modulating" furnace is compatible with the "two-state" AC... I believe I will choose it. If I have not mentioned it before, I have a medical condition that makes me sensitive to heat. With my current system, I am sensitive to the temperature change(s) in the winter. Never thought there was a solution for it. I believe the modulating function will help with the abrupt temperature swings.

A modulating furnace is a higher end furnace that has additional efficiency when it comes to producing heat. These are a more high end, high efficiency when it comes to heating, but this doesn't do anything for you in cooling mode that a two stage variable speed 80% efficient furnace wouldn't do.

So you understand the difference a two stage variable speed furnace efficiency starts at 80% efficiency. The modulating furnaces are typically 90% to 97% efficiency.

But those efficiencies only pertain to the furnace in heating mode, not AC mode.

Once you get to the 97% efficiency of a gas furnace there is an extra heat exchanger down stream of the main one, where the flue gases are cooled even lower to use as much heat as possible. The majority of the waste by this point is mostly condensate water vapor.

If your concern is mostly along the lines of cooling only, the modulating furnace is probably more than what you truly need.