I would strongly suggest you have two HVAC systems - one for each floor. It gets very hot where you live and you will want to sleep at a lower temp than is comfortable to watch TV. It's the same year 'round. I could not live without mine.

I have York systems. It's what my local HVAC dealer sells. He has had excellent luck with them and says he cannot sell any system that will end up with a lot of warranty repairs. I've been very please with my York units and they were THOUSANDS less than Carrier. York does no retail advertising, has no big multi-level sales force. Carrier does.

Nearly all big hvac brand's are about the same, may be except Goodman but again not by much. Compare similar units feature for feature and go with what you need.

Well, you need calculated HVAC requirements to make any real headway. Assuming you know all the details, including insulation, windows and doors (size and type), facings, etc, your contractors should be able to calculate the necessary size of the heating and cooling units. Now, many will want to use a rule of thumb, but this could be especially bad for you if you are building a well-insulated home, as it would badly oversized the system and ruin performance/comfort.

The company installing your unit(s) is how you decide they brand to use. You want a company to use a brand they trust and find works well for their clients. Different companies have differing preferences, and different experiences. You want them installing a system they have experience with for the best possible installation outcome.

For instance, I prefer Carrier, as does my preferred HVAC company, but I have owned homes with a Carrier, a Goodman, a Comfortmaker and a Trane system. They all functioned, but the Goodman and Comfortmaker systems died at the 12-15 year mark, where the Carrier and Trane systems are still running strong at 18 and 14 years old. The Trane was installed by a builder and had a little bit of an issue until my favored company spent a few hours fixing some shortcuts taken on the install...again proving that a company you know and trust is worth a pile of gold!

Thank you all for the comments.

North Texas, this seems like sage advice...finding a reputable contractor and seeing what brands they prefer to work with.

I'm wondering for my situation if hybrid heat would be recommended? I suppose I will now focus on finding a few reputable companies and getting their inputs on calculations and preferred systems.

In the meantime any other comments on recommended types of systems and features would be welcomed.

Mike O, I'm in Southern Oklahoma and we are on our second a/c heat pump unit in 15 years. the first one was a Goodman and the current one is a York with a better sear rating. All manufacturers make different levels of quality a/C's and it depends on what you want to spend. The Amanna a/c has been running a 10 year parts and labor warranty through Hunter heat and air.

You need to hire a 3rd party expert to do a blower door test(I'm across the bridge in Belmont) to determine how much tonnage you 'actually' need. Shouldn't cost that much. Most HVAC companies will install units that are 'very' oversized to cover their (Y^**&()......You 'might 'only' need a 3 ton on one floor but they install a 5 ton!!!!!! Happens ALL the time!!!!!!! It's 'all' about their ^$^#%^* and profit!!!

As you can see from the responses there is much more to HVAC than merely selecting a brand. If only it was that simple.

When people say this brand broke, versus another system you can only take these kinds of comments with a grain of salt.

Why: because nearly all manufacturer's make more than one model. So people run around and say this brand is inferior when it was probably a particular model that may have had trouble or maybe the installer did something improper during installation? You just don't know.

I have installed roughly 7-8 different brands over the past 11 years that I have owned and operating my HVAC service company in Katy, Texas.

My failure rates, regardless of brand is anywhere from 1.5% to 3% per year. (It's very low considering the nature of this business.)

I have a lot of low end Goodman models within that mix... so this talk of Goodman being somehow inferior --- How is it that I can make this brand work in a hot climate that requires AC for upwards of 10 months out of the year?

With that said, I am not a Goodman only dealer. I work on and fix all brands. I sell more than just Goodman brands. Brand doesn't matter to me, because I know how to fix them. When's the last time you heard a builder say he fixed something as opposed to building something new? (PS: That's the point.)



The comment about Carrier, Trane etc. You have to take these things with a grain of salt. It all depends on what the problem is.

I have repaired older Tranes, just as much as older Carriers with little to no fanfare. In fact I just recently repaired a 17 year old Carrier that had Freon leaks in the evaporator.

I repaired it by replacing the indoor evap coil. All units break. This particular Carrier unit is running yet again. (It's an R22 machine)

I currently have 2 dead York units in the junk pile. York is not some how immune to problems. One failed due to R22 Freon leak and wasn't worth trying to save it. The other one failed with a locked up compressor.

All brands break, it's what they do. The reasons to replace often times come down to how you've cared for them over the years AND who has done that work.

In terms of new builds: A builder builds and then moves onto the next build. Builders are not known for service. (I don't do new construction, I fix those kinds of problems associated with such.)

I service the Katy, Texas area.

Austin’s point is right on, builders use builder grade units (the Goodman I had was such, as was the Trane), and their performance is according related. A custom build (probably) allows to choose an installer of your choice and equipment of your choice, within limits, unless you are the GC.

If you are the GC and asking this question, you are out of your depth and need help yesterday. If you are not, what does your builder say?

Are you sure about the gas rate, it seems high.

Here are the cost numbers for 100K BTU of heat:

Gas furnace AFUE 95%: $10.49

Heat pump @ COP 2.5: $10.06

Heat pump @ COP 3.0: $8.38

Electric heat: $25.15

If your gas rates are as high as you posted, then you there is not much savings having a gas furnace.

I suggest not installing any HVAC equipment in the attic or crawl space. Build a utility closet on one of the floors to house a system for each floor. Whoever installs your HVAC equipment needs to do a load calculation. Get a copy and review it. Get model numbers of all equipment prior to installation.

I think you're math is off with a moving decimal point.

At 3 COP (1=3400 BTUs) you'd get ~10K BTUs for 1 kwh. To get 100K BTUs would take 10 of those, at 8.5 cents would be 85 cents

At 2.5 COP, 11.7 kwh at 8.5 cents equals 99.5 cents

1 therm of gas equals 100K BTU. Simplified numbers to get 100K BTUs would take 1.05 therms. call it $1.05.

99.7 cents for a therm of gas may be high but that's relative. On my last PG+E utility bill I paid $1.27 per for part of the period, and $1.22 for the remainder.

Oops, you are correct. My spreadsheet is for a million BTUs. I have edited the numbers.

I tried to edit my earlier post, but for some reason it is not working. Here are the corrected numbers based on:

Natural Gas at $0.997 / therm.
Electric rate at $.08581/kWh.

The cost numbers for 100K BTU of heat:

Gas furnace AFUE 95%: $1.05

Heat pump @ COP 2.5: $1.06

Heat pump @ COP 3.0: $.084

Electric heat: $2.52

who is your electric utility supplier? You should recheck your electric rate and nat gas rate. Crawlspace or basement?...i still would go with nat gas for heat, cooktop...for your second floor, you want excellent building qualities and insulation for attic area. Two systems properly sized for main and second floor. No builder grade systems for custom built home.

IMO

Just checked Duke Energy rates.

With electric heat and hot water, the winter rate (after 350 kwh) is 7.6 cents.

The base is 8.5 cents for the first 350kwh.

So get a heatpump hot water heater and I just saved you 10% in the winter. Your welcome...

The 8.7 cents is for conventional rates (ie not electric heat/hot water).

And then if you don't care to have a gas fireplace or gas cooking, you save an additional $150 a year in connection (plus probably $500 in initial gas line install cost).

The national average for replacing AC systems is around 15 years or so. They don't break this down into builder grade or non-builder grade.

I can tell you from a repair perspective builder grade units aren't any more prone to breakage or replacement than non-builder grade unit. If I was going to classify something as builder grade I would merely say 'entry level' system.... with no bells and whistles.

That means 13 / 14 SEER in the North and 14 SEER in the South. The name on the side of the unit matters little. I've repaired all brands in this realm just as much as I've replaced them.

What's different about my area is 'use'. I live in a hot climate, so if anything is going to fail prematurely it was going to do it regardless of the name on the side of the unit. Running something 10 months out of the year in comparison to a climate that might use it 3 or 4 months (not that this is the case of the OP) --- just so you know there is much more to think about other than the name on the side of the unit.

If you jump up out of the builder grade closet, your install cost is going to go up. A builder 'may' not be that well suited installing something other than 'a builder grade unit'.

Why? Because a builder typically doesn't have the experience of doing this sort of thing correctly. It's like the added bells and whistles of zone systems. --- Most of these I come across in new builds are generally garbage, don't work right and due to 'design' of them there's no way they could work right.

You have to realize a builder has a small skill set, because they are always working with something that is 'new' out of the box from the store. They rarely see a broken system... whether it's builder grade or not. Most builders in the HVAC realm 99% do not run HVAC service. They simply are not built for it.

Definition of HVAC service is: 7am - 7pm Sunday Thru Saturday. Not 8-5 Mon-Fri.
Not leave a message at the beep, not we'll get back to you within 72 hours, etc.
With that said some claim to offer service in this regard, but fall considerably short. Maybe you need it, maybe you don't. In a hot climate like mine? Don't kid yourself.

Remember a builder builds. So if they tell you they don't have problems with xyz brand it's probably that it doesn't have problems with in the year or two that they are on the hook to fix it.

There are plenty of builder horror stories on this board to prove what I say is accurate. So to say the answer is to install better than builder grade system, you better hope they have the skill set to install it properly or it's sure to give you even more trouble. There is no warranty coverage for improper installation, builder's go out of business all the time, so keep that in mind as well.

25% of the knowledge needed to install an AC system. The other 75% is knowing what not to do.

I am in upstate SC and also a Duke Customer. my rate is approx $0.1150/ KWH. This is for Sept and includes a $8.00 load control credit. I heat with nat gas including cooktop and hot water heater.

TD

Duke has rates all over the place. Mine is higher than Charlotte also. Not sure why they vary so much. Mine is Duke Progress area but also about 11.5 cents.

PO updated the HVAC in 1987. Two obsolete Heil ng furnaces still running nicely. Fingers and toes crossed for the next four months.

What is the "best valued" HVAC system? That depends on your criteria and you really haven't stated any. Is the best value system defined as one with the least initial cost, the least operating cost, the least total cost, the greatest comfort, the most reliable, the greatest flexibility, the greatest life expectancy, etc.?

You will be well served to have your system sized by a qualified HERS rater and to get their recommendations about which provides the best value based on the criteria you define.