We need photos

Here is a pic of the swatch vs a piece of the panel. Hard to capture on photo but you get the idea. Looks worse in person

We also took our door to a local Sherwin Williams to test it with their spectrometer and they said nope, this is not 7006. This was before we found out they use a different base on the professional level. Had they told us this I would have asked to see a their sample colours using that base and chosen from there. I feel we really got taken advantage of and there was zero transparency.

This is a personal response.

I believe the buck stops with the cabinet maker. He is the professional and how many cabinets has he painted in his career? He knows that the paint used on cabinets will have a different base than interior paint and 7006 would have a yellow undertone in application.

I understand your disappointment, but I do understand the contractor’s refusal to remove cabs to be repainted

IMO, the cabinet maker should be paying your contractor to help correct the problem.

Yes Judy, I see your point. The cabinet maker is stating “we painted it 7006”. But then he goes on to say that it’s not the retail version of 7006 as they have a different base. How stupid is that!! Our contractor and this cabinet manufacturer have been working together for 20 years so they both should have known this. I see the contractor as equally responsible if not more so for advocating for his clients

*not advocating

The cabinets maker is also stating that if we weren’t happy with the colour then we shouldn’t have let the contractor install them. But as you can see from my post above, we were never asked to sign off or had anything to compare it to.

You signed off when you gave him the check after inspecting the cabinets.

Paying the contractor and allowing the install says you approved of what was delivered. Installation constitutes acceptance.

What can be done now is to pick a backsplash and wall paint to tie things together.

The contract stated deposit due upon delivery so we gave it to him. The swatch was never given to me to approve.

You own the cabinets. It doesn’t matter that he didn’t give you a sample to approve. You legally approved of the work when you paid him. and let the cabinets be installed. If the work delivered didn’t meet your approval, it should have never come out of the trailer. Nor should you have given him a dime.

That’s water under the bridge. Unless you want to pay someone else to spray a 2K poly in your home, the color is what it is.

Show the cabinets with the counters. There’s a fix. The color isn’t bad. Warm whites are a better long term choice anyway as cold and gray is dying on the vine. It’s going to be fine, and better than intended.

So where is the accountability on their part to provide what I ordered?? Or to tell me that the paint they use is not the same as the Sherwin Williams retail paint and therefore the colour swatches wouldn’t match? I was mislead by both parties involved and we caught the mistake and was told twice it was just the lighting.

The accountability was you demanding a sample BEFORE a 50% deposit is made to produce the cabinets. No, it’s not professional for them to not offer to do that. But you didn’t demand that professionalism. If things don’t meet your standards, up front is when to register that. And you didn’t demand the actual cabinet production specifications, if you didn’t understand that no one uses consumer paint on cabinets. You still don’t know what brand and type of coating that they used, do you? Or understand the basic pluses and minuses of the different professional coatings systems. Do you even know what material was used under the paint?

This renovation is one of the bigger purchases in a lifetime, and it wasn’t studied and specified and inspected as much as a new car would have been. Cabinets costs as much as a new car, or they should if you use the right cabinet maker, so why wasnt more about them known and understood? And this cabinet maker rejected?

The second accountability step is not writing that other check at delivery, and refusing delivery. Did you unwrap and inspect all of them as they were delivered, with your sample of paint and door style in hand? The person ordering has the say in quality control. You have to inspect all of your ordered materials at delivery. With your GC. Jointly. If it isn’t what you ordered, that’s the time to handle that. You don’t install cabinets, tile, wood, paint, or anything else, and then get buyers remorse.

The guys you hired aren’t at the top level, no doubt. Demanding to be better informed and more involved would have meant that you wouldn’t have used them in the first place. You didn’t do adequate due diligence, and didn’t understand your purchase. They used that lack of knowledge and lack of assertiveness to browbeat you. That’s on them. They’re jerks, and maybe hacks too. Why’d you pick them??

But then you paid them, and accepted the product. And installed it. That’s on you. That was the last bit of control you had in the situation. That’s gone. You have to deal with them as is.

Figure out a new color to tie things together. Or pay a different cabinet finisher to respray them some time next year,

You followed their instructions to a T. They failed. They need to fix. They sent you to SW for the pick. That's your sample. They didn't match.

Unless they provided you another sample to sign off I would expect an exact match of the SW color.

Sometimes mistakes are made and the pros need to suck it up. I'm guessing your contractor also was misinformed by the cabinet maker. The cabinet maker needs to cover the reinstall costs also.

Custom or factory cabinets?

This is part of why it’s best to work with a Kitchen Designer. They are your advocate, and represent your interests. This can be really important when you haven’t done projects like this before. They have recommendations for quality contractors. And those previous relationships ensure a smoother project. When you are uncomfortable standing up and representing your own interests in dealing with the contractors, someone has to step up and do it.

I suggest you contact a local Kitchen Designer to help you pull things together and make the existing cabinet color work. It’s going to be much better with that cabinet color. Extra White is a very cold color. It’s difficult to work with in most homes that aren’t starkly modern and virtually unadorned with anything showing signs of life. The right backsplash and paint color will work. You just need some professional help to get there.

I think live_wire_oak has hit it on the head.

You didn't actually HAVE an advocate, whose job it was to look out for your interest. Your contractor is not your advocate, especially when it comes to things that are going to cost him something to correct.

The space between what you didn't know about things like paint formulations and what a professional would have known can be filled either with extensive research or a person who IS paid to know them for you.

I agree that your best option at this point is probably to work with your cabinet color as it is. Respraying them is likely both going to be on your dime, and may not result in as good a finish as the shop-applied one you already have. It's harder to get good results in the field.

It isn't off by much, and I think you can still have a lovely kitchen if you move forward with the intent to incorporate the new shade.

I think what livewireoak is proposing is the way to go, but to those saying the OP didn't have an advocate, shouldn't the GC be the advocate? It seems all these threads end up the same way: you need another level because you cannot trust trade people to do the right thing . Really?

Not trying to be a pain. I am trying to understand the rational here. We have a small project to renovate our kitchen (not very small as if it was the case we would do it DIY, but small compared to large kitchens that are completely changed). We have decided to get a GC because we are not confident in our ability to get decent tradesmen on our job in a timely manner without a GC. This is already a hit on our budget, but if we need somebody to deal with the GC, this may put our project out of range).

Define "right thing" here. I'd bet the contractor feels the OP is being ridiculously fussy and got what she asked for, even if it's not what she wanted.

No one said the OP didn't have a contractor. And this is not a matter of the contractor not being honest. It's a matter of the OP and the contractor, effectively, speaking different "languages."

A contractor is NOT your advocate. He's a project manager you hire to get a specific job done, who coordinates those various parts. But he's going to do it in a way that fulfills his contract and still makes his life as simple as he can make it.

So, again, you either have to do enough research to know what to ask and what to define in a contract so that what you ask for IS what you want and you have made it clear in a way that everybody understands - or you hire a professional who can navigate that for you.

The contractor fulfilled the contract. The OP accepted his work when he was paid. Knowing that avoiding the current situation ought to have involved A. asking for strike-off doors to approve before the cabinets were made, B. approving colors prior to painting, and C. inspecting the product prior to acceptance is something that one learns either through research, experience, or the advice of a KD. But arguing that the contractor ought to have been the one to provide that education... is probably overstepping.

Now, you could make a fair argument that the cabinet maker ought to have known about the color issue and educated the OP. However, the counter argument to that is that the OP ought to have asked for a sample door.

I doubt very much that the OP is going to be offered any significant remedy. So it's probably time to move on from that, and work on picking other elements that will blend the cabinets into the rest of the kitchen.

This happened to a new construction builder I once worked with. He ordered the cabinets the same color as the trim he was using throughout the home. The cabinets were delivered at least a few shades off, just like yours. And they told him the same thing...their paint formula for cabinets is different. They ended up painting the trim in just the kitchen to match the cabinets and working with it.

This next piece of advice won't help you but might help anyone else reading this. NEVER approve a cabinet color with a paint color name or swatch only. ALWAYS get a sample door made. They may complain about it or tell you it will take a long time, but absent an actual sample door in the color you want, you may end up with the wrong color on your cabinets too.

I have lived in my home for 26 years with SW Pure White on all interior doors, baseboards, crown, wainscoting and an entire paneled family room fireplace wall which is open to the kitchen. When we ordered our kitchen cabinets in 2017 we spec'd SW Pure White for our cabinetry. They are as close to a perfect match as I could have ever expected. In fact the crown over the cabinets meets up with the crown in the rest of the kitchen and family room and you can't really tell that the crown above the cabinets came from the cabinet company and that the rest of the crown was sprayed on site by our painters. I am wondering if your cabinet maker actually used SW or if he went rogue and tried to do a color match with another product. Before accepting this and trying to 'work' with it, I would contact SW directly and run this discrepancy past their technical support people.

https://oem.sherwin-williams.com/kitchencabinetry/

Hi...sorry about your kitchen...do you have a picture? I personally love the look of mixing shades of white so it may just need some tweaking.

Color me Happy Blog did a post on this very thing last year. I'll link it below. Basically, the catalyzed finishes always come up creamier than the latex equivalent even though it is listed as the same color. She says you have to actually pick the color from the samples in each finish to match them up. i.e. chantilly lace catalyzed finish will match another white in latex...you can't order the same color and expect a match.

It really amazes me that the cabinet maker wouldn't offer this information though. If this housewife DIYer from NJ knows this about paint, they should as well.

Color me Happy Blog Post on this subjject

@Holly Stockey,

I agree that at this point there is nothing to do but to move on. This said, doing the right thing would have been saying : " Careful, the color the cabinet maker has will not be the same the one than the one you see at the SW store". Or, "ask for a sample door." You said s/he is the project manager. Shouldn't part of his/her job make sure the projects goes according to customer's expectation, and, as I expect he knew the problem with colors, hence my point.

But c' est la vie. Nothing dramatic and I am sure that the OP will eventually be happy with the color.

@cloe

It really amazes me that the cabinet maker wouldn't offer this information though. If this housewife DIYer from NJ knows this about paint, they should as well.

I agree, this was my point. Particularly a kitchen contractor.

Also, wanted to add that not too long ago on here, someone had a similar problem with creamy and white countertops and cabinets. Their solution was to tie it together to look intentional with the backlash in both white and ivory shades. There were some stunning examples of backsplashes that may tie it all together for you if you can find the post.

Found the post about same thing creamy cabinets and white countertops POST

Hi Cleo, that might have been my suggestion on Lena D’s post.

Diana, “off white” and white can work together if you want them to, however you are at the stage where other solutions may work better. You can still get cabinets in the color that you want by having them sprayed on site - you’ve already gotten advice on this from people more knowledgeable on the subject. Here’s what mismatched whites can do together if you decide to go that route. Maria Killam wrote piece in 2014 on making color mismatches look more purposeful, that might be helpful. As Cleo points out, the bs is key....

A GC isn’t a KD. GC’s don’t design. He doesn’t interpret anything with a design result in mind. He interprets things with construction in mind. They both work for you, but have different mentalities and responsibilities.

A GC has the responsibility to his company to move the project forward and keep his subs in sequence with minimal delays impacting his profit margins. His responsibility to you is to create something that is substantially similar to the physical plans that your designer created and documented. Substantially similar substitutions are allowed in the construction world. This lumber for that lumber. This paint Brand for that paint brand. This shingle for that shingle. A cabinet conversion varnish interpretation of a color vs a latex version of a color. Etc. It’s substantially similar.

Not so in the design world. Designers have a greater attention to detail. They insist on in person samples of all actual products to be used. They put all those samples together to avoid color and pattern clashes. They check what is custom created or delivered against their samples. If there is a discrepancy, they already have a mental plan to punt and shift to another choice to make things work. Or to insist that the work be redone. Before anyone gets paid. A designer driven job is a different level of contracting work, and a different attitude contractor. It also costs more, because things take longer and everyone is pickier.

Designers also understand that no design rests on the shoulders of “One Perfect Choice” There are a lot of Right Choices, including the cabinets that were installed in your kitchen. A designer has a non emotional attachment to the whole Design Plan, and understands that nothing in that plan is a make or break. A Design Plan can be set in stone and be fluid all at the same time. It can all come together, with their skills and ability to shift to a different Right Choice.

When a homeowner acts as the Designer, they assume all of that responsibility. They are expected to have the same knowledge base that a professional KD would have. To have done their research. To have created the diagrams and documents that communicate the design details to the GC. Including a sample library. And they have to assume a level of supervision and forcefulness too.

When the homeowner doesn’t step up to that level of knowledge, documentation, and supervision, the results will likely not meet their mental image. They didn’t know what they didn’t know. But they have to move past that issue if the job is going to be completed and get to the spirit and intent of the hoped for design. That is why it’s time to hire the pro designer here. This can still be a success. Remember that the big picture is the constant. It’s the individual details that are always fluid.

First, paying for the cabinets is not approval. This is just a B.S. urban legend. When something is wrong, it is wrong, regardless of whether you paid for it or didn't. There are certain times when accepting a payment is seen as a settlement and other times when it isn't. Paying a cabinet maker is not a settlement and thus it is not acceptance of an "as is" disclaimer.

Next, I don't buy what your cabinet maker is selling. Every base is different for every product and different color formulas are used based on the product you are coloring. Bases are tinted to the color swatch and some bases will never get to some colors, but the color doesn't change just because the base does.

Sherwin Williams Extra White is the same color on every product that they carry, some products can't really get to extra white because the base itself is darker than that. Additionally, a lot of things can happen between the can and the cabinet that change the color a bit but that doesn't make it OK. If you are using a lacquer in humidity and laying down a retarder between coats then you have to know the retarder is going to warm the color a bit and you are going to have to either inform the customer you can't get to their desired result or cool it down some.

I suggest you call the Sherwin Williams that mixes your industrial coatings (not all SW will mix the industrial coatings, my local mixer is 90 minutes away even though there are at least a dozen SW closer than that).

As for remedy, trust your attorney. I suspect that your attorney will be able to find a favorable outcome for you in this matter.

As for my opinion... You gave a specific requirement in the contract. I would argue that by doing so you created a duty for him to verify the color before installation. Take one door to Sherwin Williams and ask them if it is 7006. When they say not ask for an explanation on why the contractor failed to verify it was the color you specified. When he says something about professional bases having different colors explain that you will need that verified in writing by Sherwin Williams.

Thanks, live_wire_oak, this is important and useful information.

All I ll say is, based on many decades of painting and choosing colors for my place is that colors out of the can and on the wall can look way, way, way different than the printed paper samples. And further complicating the issue is that the color can look different mixed in different sheens and different bases - such as the cheaper SW paints vs. the top of the line Emerald. I dont even bother with the little pint SW paint samples anymore, cos the color generally does not match what it will look like in real paint. All those are good for imho is to get a general idea. and they will at least help you narrow down your choices.

Right now Im struggling with what I thought was a nice rich Benjamin Moore green with gold-brown undertones that in eggshell seems to have a distinctly blackish tinge that iI dont like and that it didnt have in the flat paint sample..

Probably most people dont care or not in tune enough with color to really see the differences. Unfortunately we who are color- sensitive really do need to bite the bullet and get an actual quart or gallon of the exact paint you want before you get an accurate look at it.

It's too bad the people you were working with blew off your concerns.

The chemical composition and tints used in a professional conversion varnish vs a consumer grade paint will never yield 100% matching results in “the same” color. This is well known in design and contractor circles. If closely matching your trim and cabinets is important to you, you don’t go from the paper consumer color chip to try to match the professional product color to it. You do it the other way around. With physical samples.

You have the professional product samples created, and applied on that sample door. Once the color is approved by you and your designer, the door is cut in half, and the cabinet maker uses that approved professional formula on your cabinets in their shop. Then the approved professional sample half door is taken to the consumer paint store to be color matched for the standard paint to be used by your paint contractor in the home.

I‘m sorry that you are disappointed here. You can still have a great knockout kitchen! Work with a local Kitchen Designer to make that happen.

There are seven colors that are visible to humans and they are Red, Orange, Yellow, Green, Blue, Indigo, and Violet. These colors run from about 400nm to 700nm wavelength. Every color we see is based on the absorption, reflection and reemission of those seven colors (waves).

When Sherwin Williams develops their paint colors they choose some material for which their paint is most likely to be used and apply the paint to that surface, let it cure for a certain time and then measure it with a 62 step interference filter on a spectrophotometer. On that material, it will absorb, reflect and reemit the same color as any other paint on the product chosen as most likely to be used on to 5nm. Extra white is extra white in every product they sell, it doesn't matter what the base is because the definition of a color is that it absorbs, reflects and reemits waves on the 400nm to 700nm spectrum the same way. If changing the base changed those things it would be a different color by definition.

Having said that different materials absorb and react with different paint differently, which changes the color. This is why good paint manufacturers will offer wood and metal coatings that are the same product with different part numbers because the formulas are color matched on that material. That is of limited use because there are so many varieties of wood but it is still helpful.

Industrial coatings are often measured on metal and will look different on wood, but anyone who knows paint should know that the color swatches don't match. Which brings us to the important point for the OP. Did you pick the color you want your cabinets to be or the formula you wanted him to use? My bet is that you chose the color that you wanted the cabinets and they are not that color.

This isn't complicated.

Both the GC and the cabinet guy chose to use the Sherwin-Williams color collection as their color atlas.

Once you chose Extra White, that became the standard - the target to match.

He didn't match it.

You didn't get the product your ordered. You realized it and notified him within an extremely reasonable amount of time.

They didn't deliver your cabinets. Because yours are supposed to be a reasonable match to Extra White.

What you need to find out is how much of a difference there is between the color on the cabinets and Extra White.

Take your sample back to the store and have them measure it again but ask them what the Delta E is.

It should be less than 1.0. If it's under 1.0, that's hard to argue because most people aren't going to be able to tell the difference between your cabinets and the standard (Extra White)

If it's over 1.0, you have all the data you need to pursue it legally.

Sometimes attorneys will ask for certification from a color lab and that's easy enough to get. Costs about $150.

Can argue subjective color judgments and lighting all day long but it's hard to argue with data.

shouldn't the GC be the advocate?

He got that responsibility as soon as he specified SW as the color standard. Whether he realized it or not, wanted or not.

What's unfortunate is every cabinet-finish-doesn't-match-the-paint-chip situation is totally avoidable at the shop level for the price of a $300 Spectro 1 device and the free app that goes with it.

It's common sense that he should get all the paint for the project from the same store. That's what I learnt in first week of reno'ing. It really should lie on him to execute in this manner as he advertises himself as an entire kitchen contractor.

Of course, he'll weasel out of it and there's no way to hold him accountable, but the devil is always in the detail and you don't really get the brightest bunch going into certain professions.

Cabinets don’t use paint is the first assumptive error here. You don’t buy commercial coatings from your local house paint store. A base and pigment system that produces paint won’t produce a commercial conversion varnish. It’s a different base. It’s a different system. It’s different tints.

It’s like trying to get apple cinnamon oatmeal when all you have is cream of wheat on hand. The recipes don’t start in the same place or use the same ingredients. They can be similar. But they will never ever match 100%.

No matter what gadget someone has. Because that gadget is focused on producing a paint tint. You might as well ask it to produce a specialty colored mortar for a brick install. It’s not the same base. It’s not the same tints. It’s never going to match a paper paint chip.

You want to paint your motorcycle Extra White? That won’t happen either. Automotive paint is another completely different chemical makeup from wall paint, or conversion varnish. You can get close. But the pigments are different. The base is different. Close is as good as it gets.

Close is as good as it gets for any chemical recipe other than the original manufacturer acrylic paint formulas for house paint.

Since Extra White is almost pure titanium dioxide colorant with clear acrylic resins, and with almost no lamp black or yellow oxide or other tint, it’s not ever really reproducible except in certain SW consumer formulations. Any SW store will tell you this. No other paint brand or base can really reproduce it, because the catalyzed resins needed in a CV will never be “100% water clear”. The white based tints that have more added tints to them are easier to produce, because they are already “off white”.

All I have to add is that my experience with my cabinet maker was -- he offered his "stock" colors, they weren't what I wanted, so he told me that he could color match. I chose a color, which would have been in a latex paint, and he matched it exactly in the conversion varnish. So it is very possible to do.

Somehow he understood that it was the color that I chose that he needed to match. I don't understand why the OP's cabinetmaker or GC didn't, couldn't, or wouldn't. And, he did send me a sample piece of the paint for my approval before painting the whole order - without my asking for it.

And, since 1) the GC took delivery and started installing without confirming that the color was correct, and 2) the issue was raised by the OP more than once, but the GC blew it off, by blaming the lighting -- I do think he has some responsibility here. I would be inclined to tell him that I am going to hire someone else to uninstall/reinstall the cabs so that they can be repainted and that the cost will come out of his final check.

OP, make sure that you start documenting every conversation that you have about this with the GC, the cabinet company, and SW.

Cabinets don’t use paint is the first assumptive error here.

No, it's not.

Doesn't matter what product is used the colorimetry is the same. If you're going to identify a color standard, which in this case is Extra White, then you're saying your methods and materials can successfully meet that standard within reasonable tolerance.

If you can't, then don't identify a color standard.

Because that gadget is focused on producing a paint tint.

No, it's not. Spectrophotometers like Spectro 1 measure color. Simply put, they capture a color's original color DNA. Has nothing to do with formulation, tints, bases, etc. The only thing that matters is what the color looks like when it's dry.

Resulting color data values are especially useful for comparing color and identifying how well they match - or don't match.

Which is the first thing that should be determined. Exactly how "off" is the color on the cabinet from the standard (Extra White).

If it's within a reasonable Delta E range, then there's nothing to talk about and you know - for sure - instead of wondering.

If it is grossly out of spec, then you have data vs. subjective opinions whether it's close enough or not.

And that's the way the professional world of color rolls. Which he/they stepped in the minute they identified Sherwin-Williams colors as their color reference. Which is essentially an atlas of well-measured and documented color standards.

I feel like I really lucked out. I gave my cabinet maker the sample of BM Snowfall White I had made for my walls, and he said he could match it. As it turned out, it was not quite a match, but I like my cabinet color *better* than the paint sample. It matches my Glacier White Corian and my white tile better than the Snowfall sample. We may repaint the walls (would like a finish I could scrub better) and if we do, we will go for the slightly cooler color of my cabs. Reading all of this, I realize I am VERY lucky, as I did not ask for a sample door.