First you will need to remove those bookcases and get rid of the heaters under them Then IMO toe kicks work well in most cases. I am not sure about energy efficiency.

i thought toe kick heaters were for under cabinets. why would i have to remove the bookcases?

Do those vents at the bottom of the bookcases have fans?

now there isn't a toe kick heater installed. The grills hide a baseboard heater and that absolutely wasn't a good idea (even with all surfaces around it insulated).....so now i will remove the baseboard heater and install toe kick heaters (and modify the fretwork grill accordingly)....the fins of the heater will be exposed. And the toe kick heaters have built in fans. That is IF I go with toe kick ....I am trying to figure out how noisy they are....Only one company (which makes hydronic heaters...which I cannot use) publishes Db at 33-28 depending on fan speed) my other option is a built in wall heater....which has the same fan issue.

You will not be able to do that without moving the bookcases IMHO. You need to hace access to the old baseboard heaters and access for hook up of the new ones, I think I would try to open those covers on the front and see it they are just blocking too much from the baseboard heaters BTW what are your baseboard heaters hot water or electric.

Electric The covers are open grills But your idea of removing them to see if they are blocking heat is a good idea Thanks

I would uncover those heaters before you have a fire for sure.Hot water might have worked but electric no way

A baseboard heats as cold air is drawn into the heater and electrically heated coils warm the air. Once heated, the air rises to the top of the unit where it attracts cooler air from the room into the heater, and the cycle repeats.

In order for your heater to function properly, it is important that nothing be placed in front of the heater to block the flow of air. In fact, you should place furniture at least 6 inches away from the heater to avoid obstructing its air intake.

My question becomes: Who said blocking an electric baseboard heater with wood was a good idea? And why would foil insulation be "good enough" for electric baseboard heaters with zero clearance?

Who looked into the clearance of flammable materials mounted above electric baseboard heaters? Who signed off on this renovation?

As Patricia points out, hot water would have been OK because it has a natural limit...100 C is normally the max before it turns to steam (and then that is SUPER HOT). Most water systems do NOT run their heating that hot. That means a smaller clearance is allowed with water...but NEVER electric.

Electric is different. It will heat as high as the MELTING point of the metal carrying the electricity. And that can be hundreds of degrees Celsius. Electric heat is KNOWN for its tremendous heat out put. And it is known for it tendency to 'overheat' if things are kept too close to it.

A situation such as yours runs the risk of adding too much thermal insulation which could lead to melting of metal components = electrical short = fire risk.

And the other reason is: the wood is soaking up the heat. The thermometer (which dictates when the coils turn on) is being tricked into thinking it is "too cold" in the room (because the wood is EATING UP all that heat...yet the room is still below the set point) and it continues with the heat output. That means the wood gets HOTTER. The more heat the wood soaks up, the hotter the coils run. The hotter they run, the greater the risk of damage to the metal in the system and the greater the risk of fire.

Wood WILL SPONTANEOUSLY COMBUST when overheated for too long. Once the water content is reduced to nil, the wood will catch fire once it's smoking point has been reached. The drier the wood the lower the temperature it needs to catch fire.

That's why you need to remove the wooden book cases. The fire risk (electrical short OR spontaneous combustion of the wood) is getting higher every day you heat your home.

Thanks SJ that was what I was trying to say but not well . I just wonder where some of these contractors got trained .

Whether or not wood burns has to do with a multitude of factors... what was it treated with and what temperature are we talking about. (How hot is hot?)

If it's just regular wood it would have to be at around 451 degrees Fahrenheit for several hours to 'spontaneously' catch fire.

With that said, it's not a good idea to put wood near electrical resistance type heating. If there is metal housing around the electrical resistance heating, it is not likely to get hot enough to 'catch fire' under 'normal conditions' --- no linseed oil rags lying around etc.

Could have avoided the complete problem with wall mounted bookcases from IKEA Besta system. With or without doors in a variety of finishes.

Those are also very attractive.

From Inspectopedia:

Do not recess heater in wall or install heater inside any type enclosure as this will cause heater to overheat and could create a hazard.

Electric Baseboard Heat Clearance Distances

• Un-obstructed front distance: 1-foot (or more) - 300 mm
• Un-obstructed side distance: 6 inches 150 mm
• Un-obstructed clearance above the heater: 12 inches

https://inspectapedia.com/heat/Electric-Heater-Locations-Clearances.php

What you have is essentially a heater deeply recessed in the wall and a big pile of kindling sitting on top of it. And a lot of thermal mass/ insulation (books) which is blocking the heat from dissipating. Add in the too little known fact that the prolonged exposure to heat lowers the combustion point of wood.

I would not be comfortable with even the wall hung bookcases posted above. Particularly the picture of the installed bookcase which is installed too close to the floor to be safe with a heater below it. (Minimum 12" above the heater, (translating to at least 16" or more above the floor.)

This is a dangerous situation. Removing the grills isn't good enough. This needs to be dealt with, not ASAP, not next week. Today.

6" above heater per King Electric who made the baseboard. But thank you

Yes, Inspectapedia acknowledges that the minimum clearances varies by mfg. (Inspectapedia is geared as a resource for home inspectors and the 12" clearance is a guideline. If an inspector sees a heater installed with less clearance, then a flag goes up until it is confirmed that the mfg's specs allow less than 12"...)

I don't want to belabor the subject but I'm not sure you understand that you have baseboard heaters buried in a wall. I'm not talking about the wall behind the bookcases but the effective new wall that the bookcases have made. The heaters are now recessed & in the installation notes, King says "DO NOT Recess Heater." Figure 2 at the link: https://king-electric.com/wp-content/uploads/kel_product_files/K-CB_INSTALL.pdf

So, you would (maybe) be OK if the heaters were mounted to the front of bookcases. (Double check if it OK for them to be mounted directly to wood.) And they wouldn't look too, too bad if painted a color to match the color of the bookcases. That may end up being your best option because toe kick heaters are usually intended to be supplemental heat sources, not a main heat source. You may need to install more than one & that will compound the noise level.

I hope I'm not coming across as argumentative. I am is concerned because you have a dangerous installation that could have drastic consequences.

I agree. The heaters are now "recessed" into the bookcase. And I would argue there is NOT a 6" clearance INSIDE that hollow the GENERAL CONTRACTOR made. I'm sorry but this is a redo...and you should be able to argue the GC MUST correct it at his/her expense.

But that assumes YOU did NOT insist on this format. If you insisted the book case look like this, and the GC made you sign a waiver, then you are the one who must pay to correct it.

RAISE the bookcases that 6" to add whatever duct/vents, etc. beneath them that you need to protect the wood. Set them in the middle of the room, if need be, until you can get this done right -- even if that means raising your tv a couple of inches to make it fit underneath it -- better to not have all those wires showing anyway.

Ended up using a cove heater....worked BEAUTIFULLY .....did not have to remove or modify bookcases....