@User Thanks for the info.

I am not doing any grille pattern in my windows. Just casements and a transom in master shower. I am also doing a gliding window in kitchen and a double wide sliding door.

The only reason I'm pausing is I wanted bronze interiors but to save money opted for pine. I'm sure we'll be happy with them.

thanks for tip regarding bathroom.

What happened to Mike?

Thanks RES. We’ll go look at Elevate and Essential in person again. It seemed like the frame and sash profiles weren’t that different but that could have been due to the framing.

We prefer Essential’s narrow profile but the interior fiberglass from Marvin feels like vinyl. Andersen and Milgard feel a lot more sturdier/rigid in comparison.

Elevate is actually slightly cheaper than Essential because we’re getting bare pine and plan to stain it to match our interior.

The divided lites are a good point - it reminded me that part of the reason we chose all ultrex was also ease of maintenance (and not a traditional aesthetic). Good luck with your decision; visiting the show room definitely helped us, and it truly is subjective and personal so you can’t go wrong :)

The Elevate is a bit nicer IMO. I agree with the other thoughts comparing the Essentials to a vinyl window. Frankly, you could get much better performance as well as SDL's, a better warranty, lower cost, etc from a good vinyl window over the Essentials if you were going to go that route.

That said, if you go Elevate throughout, using the Essentials in areas of the home that traditionally have higher moisture like the bathroom is not a bad idea either. Just not many compelling reasons to use that window throughout.

following : )

@KarenCornella, we decided to stick with our plan of Elevate for all windows except for bathrooms, where we are going with Essential.

Marvin’s fiberglass interior is on par with cheap vinyl, in my opinion. Other manufacturers (Milgard, Andersen) have more rigid fiberglass material, which I prefer.

Andersen's Fibrex is "composed of 40-percent recycled Ponderosa pine wood fibers and 60-percent polyvinylchloride"

Thanks for the input Mike!

Trying to decide between Marvin Elevate or Anderson Woodwright ? Any suggestions , we are doing double hung SDL in the middle

To change the subject its best to start a new thread. I think there's a current one comparing Marvin Elevate to Andersen Woodwright.

@Trish Walter and @kristin E. have your windows been installed and you pleased with them? Visiting Marvin Gallery this week.

Yep! We’ve been in about 3 months and the insulation is amazing. We rarely have to use central ac, even when it’s high 90s out. Love the look as well. Let me know if you want to know anything specific!

Which collection did you end up selecting and do you recall which glass option? I’m looking at the premium glass for the sound reduction properties.

@amcmacken615 - fwiw, I read somewhere that sound reduction from windows glass options isn’t enough to warrant the extra expense. It is more important for the contractor to seal the windows properly. If you are looking for addition reduction, consider asking your contractor to double up drywall in those areas.

Offset glazing is a cheap option and absolutely does translate into additional sound blocking.

While it's vital to ensure that the window is correctly installed and tightly sealed, sound blocking windows/glass options are a real thing and can make a significant difference in how much noise is getting through that hole in your wall.

I’m sure it has some impact. The question is of value for the money.

Proper sealing, insulation, and double drywall go a really long way.

Sound is transmitted via vibrations through the air and the most cost-effective way to reduce noise is to properly seal the windows and any other spaces.

As the guys above mentioned, offset glazing is fairly inexpensive and worthwhile. Laminated glass will get a little bit more pricey, although probably still makes more sense than doubling drywall in a window replacement application.

An air-tight installation is certainly important as well although that should be a given. One thing not yet mentioned along the same lines is the tightness of the window itself, and in a bit of irony, the products being discussed are not strong in that area.

In theory a more air tight window would produce a lower STC rating , but if you look at the numbers for those that actually provide them you will see little to no difference regardless of the air infiltration ratings..

@toddinmn, my understanding of the STC testing is that the unit is tested between two rooms with the same temperature and humidity levels on each side and negligible air movement (no added "wind-speed"). This would mitigate that variable (impact of air leakage) in large part for the purposes of the that test/rating.

so You are saying the STC ratings are irrelevant!?

@toddinmn, not saying that at all. Just commenting on the relation between STC and air leakage. In my opinion both are relevant considerations when sound mitigation is a high priority. OITC should probably be considered as well depending on the type of sound that one is trying to control

Typically I find the OITC ratings to fall in line with the STC ratings . Either one of these numbers do not seem to fluctuate between brands with higher and lower number air infiltration ratings. It would make sense that a a window with a lower air infiltration number would have a lower STC/ OITC rating but the testing data I have seen does not correspond with this. I would imagine at some point when a window exceeds AAMA minimum air specifications this would come into play But when is anyone’s guess without data., The irony is I Doubt you have any current data on the windows being t about and no suggestions. On what they should be.

Element lab in west St Paul performs the STC test. The set up for STC testing is pretty impressive. Small room or big box with a hole in the side. The inside of the box is lined with acoustic tiles from floor to ceiling and along the ceiling. There are microphones set up in several places inside the box.

It takes some time to get a window installed for testing, but once installed there is zero air leakage allowed around the edges of the window.

Air leakage through the window frame/sash is important in determining window STC, but sound infiltration due to installation is a separate, but no less important, issue.

Obviously there are many other labs around the country that also do STC testing, I mention this particular Element lab only because I had the opportunity to witness STC testing there one time, although I had visited the lab on several occasions over the years.

And despite what some people may suggest, glass composition and configuration used does make a significant difference in overall window performance.

So if one is saying the tightness of the window , which is in reflected in the air infiltration rating would have some impact upon STC rating. When comparing STC ratings amongst different brands of same operating types and glass packages the STC rating doe not change, or 1 point at most. Part of the problem to make accurate comparisons is that know one knows the air leakage rate of the Marvins being talked about here. My conclusion is that air infiltration rates play a small role until maybe a window out side of AAMA limits is used which would be a mute point in any window I know. Typically know one knows what the air infiltration ratings of windows are. Many windows with claimed low air infiltration ratings don’t have STC numbers, many windows with STC numbers don’t claim air numbers , just shoe that passed AAMA testing.

@toddinmn, I explained why the STC rating does not follow air infiltration rating congruently in my previous post. AI is tested at 25mph wind speed. I’ve not witnessed an STC test, but in reviewing the procedures, it doesn’t appear that there is any added air movement introduced. I think we can agree that sound moves through air flow, therefore greater airflow would amplify the movement of sound as well. What you are suggesting is sound (pun intended) in concept, but to yield the resulting relationship that you expect (at least to the level where the numbers follow), the STC test would also need to be tested at a 25mph wind speed. More airflow= more sound transmission, so the needle should move as you are suggesting In that case.

Much like an air infiltration test would yield a minimal difference between a tight window and a leaky one if the wind speed was insignificant, the same holds true for the STC test.

What if we all agree that air leakage is bad so best to avoid it?

Ok, but one should know the air rating of a window window before they dismiss it and bring it into the equation.

Agreed on both points above.

@Mike Smith @Kirsten E. @Trish Walter How are your windows holding up? Did they arrive free of defects and scratches etc? Any maintenance or unforeseen issues? Thanks

I cannot determine whether the essential or elevate lines of casement windows has lower air infiltration numbers. Also in the Bay Area and aiming to seal out wildfire smoke.

We are leaning Essential for the narrower look and no wood maintenance. But must go with Elevate for sliding doors due to 8 foot size.

We ended up getting Elevate windows and we increased our window size. The windows are amazing. We live in the DC area and we have had no problems. We also decided to increase our door size and put in a provia signet door. So glad we ended up using Marvin and Provia . Great products and amazing customer service .

@Kristin Levay Do you have any Elevate sliders - if so how are they?

@Mike Smith @Todd I found the same as @Kirsten E. in that the Essential seems to cost the same or even more than Elevate. This appears mostly due to the jamb extenions. The Essential will need more Jamb extensions than the Elevate due to its thinner make up.

@Kirsten E. How do you feel about the Essentials you installed now?

@User thanks for those cross-sectional sketches.

I would just prefer not to deal with wood in the interior, but if the Essential is flimsy or "cheap feeling" then I may consider the Elevate. I am finding zero pricing difference (in 6" wall the Essentials cost more with the larger jamb extensions).

Dmann33, are you pricing standard sizes or custom sizes? I found that even though the windows can be made to any dimension, there seems to be quite an upcharge for custom sizes, I think due to non-stock glass. The standard sizes in Essential are more limiting than Elevate.

@Seabornman These are standard sizes, double hung finished black inside and out. I suspect if you compared a custom essential to standard elevate then the elevate would be MUCH less.

@dman33 I absolutely love them. With cats who sit in the jamb extensions, a propensity to just set down drinks or watering cans, and lots of plants, not having to worry about wood is a game changer. With respect to the windows themselves, the insulation is fantastic. We often don’t have to turn on the heat in the winter (located in the Midwest)

@Kirsten E. Thanks for sharing. Do you have them in a 4" or 6" stud wall? Also, what material are the Jamb extensions anyway?

I purchased Elevate casement windows with the premium glass for additinal sound attenuation. As @oberon476 mentioned, installation is very important.. $28k later and i have more drafts than the original, base grade, Jeld Wen windows, and the sound transmision was not improved. Aesthetically, the windows are nice but please be sure to find a contractor that stands behind their work.

If they are leaking air, doesn't matter was the glass is. They will leak sound like a sieve as well. What is the issue? Casements, should be, tight as a drum. Have you addressed this with the contractor?

@dman33 you’re welcome :) 6” stud wall and the jamb extensions are their proprietary material called Ultrex.

@Windows on Washington Ltd. The company i purchased theough were fully aware of the sub par work of fhe first conttsctor. They sent their ”top” guy out to finish the project and i think i was equally disappointed. I can still feel drafts througout the house. I sent videos of the candle smoke test and the explanation was that I had blinds covering half of fhe window so it created some sort of vacuum or movement of the air which is why the smoke feom a freshly blown out candle would blow away from the window. They couldnt explain why the air was ice cold. Caulk install was bad and as you can see the finishing trim they used didnt cover the area of where the previous trim was installed. This was the second set of trim by this company as they beought out painted trim that looked horrible. Also, they didn't fill any of the nail holes. Additionally, i think the pressure on the gun was too high as you can see indentations parallel to each nail hole. When they returned to the house to fill the nail holes, only after a complaint, they brought white nail filler and black paint/stain to go over it. This might be commom proactice but after all the other issues I started to question everything. Based on their previous work, i asked them to not move forward with it and to leave the house.

i would like to have the leaks and trim addressed but I have no idea who to contact for the repair. ive spent $28k already and afraid if i contact another ”reputable” company, they'll charge me an arm and a leg. I know there are still great companies that complete great work, but I can’t financially afford trial and error method. Im located in southeast michigan and open to suggestions and referrals.

pics showing examples of the ”finished job”

So I still haven't heard confirmation if this is a "window" issue (i.e. the Elevate window not working), but it appears that there were some contractor issues. If for no other reason, the fact they sent someone else out is indicative there was an issue.

There isn't black covered nail hole filler. That trim was going to require paint (touch up or full) after being installed. Gun pressure, mitre saw blade, and general quality of the trim install is NOT indicative of good things.

You need to know where and how the air is coming in. If its leaking between the window and the opening, mostly points towards the installation of the window (not always as air can be moving in the wall from outside sources unconnected to the installation). If the window is leaking air, the fitment of the sash requires adjustment here.

@Windows on Washington Ltd In your opinion, what’s the best method of determining where the cold air is coming from? General contractor? I’m not experienced in this area. Your comments and recommendations are appreciated.

It was mentioned 2-years ago that there are some vinyl options that are more efficient (and presumably aesthetically pleasing) than Marvin Elevate / Essential...what are some examples of those alternatives?

OKNA, Softlite, Sunrise are the commonly named brands. Other can be area dependent.

Thanks. FWIIW i'm looking for new construction windows.

Just ask for them with flanges.

@amcmacken615

Proper window installer with a deeper understanding of efficiency and air barriers.