It's time to stop guessing - actually, it was time to stop guessing a few repairs back.

The repair person needs to run the bath and use a thermometer on the pipes to understand what's happening. In other words, start at the tub when it gets cold, and trace it back to the control that isn't working properly.

When they have made the repair, then they need to test it before they leave to prove the diagnosis was correct an the problem has been fixed.

This is basic troubleshooting. It astounds me that trades don't approach things more methodically.

Thanks so much for your feedback. I don’t think they know how to solve it ( and believe it or not this is a well regarded company in this community)so now I think they are resorting to the this lady is a nut theory. I just sent them an email to let them know I am now seeking help online. If I ever hear from them I’ll relay your message. I was very patient with them but now that I feel I am being treated shabbily that has changed. Thanks again.

You might also contact tech or customer support from the manufacturer of the furnace. If you speak with them on the phone, follow up with e-mails so that you have a written log. Document the names of the people you speak with, dates & times and ask for either employee numbers or reference numbers relating to your communications or file with them. If you're not satisfied, speak with supervisors.

Your domestic hot water should be the heating priority, otherwise you cannot take a bath or shower. This might be a control issue.

It's NOT acceptablehow you're being treated. 'Somebody' has to figure this out!

IMPO

SR

Thanks very much. I was starting to wonder if this was a plumbing issue or a heating issue. The furnace company does not call itself plumbing and heating. But I did have continuous hot water prior to having the furnace replaced. And I did have a separate plumbing company replace the part behind the bath tub tap so I guess I am back to the furnace. I didn’t think of calling the furnace manufacturer so thank you for that and your other suggestions. Funny the older man that owns the company came to the house when we called about putting in a new furnace. When I have called about the issue with the hot water I eventually asked if I could speak with him. They refuse that request each time.

I believe you have a boiler and not a furnace. Are you saying the coil does not connect to any tank outside of the boiler? Is this a combination boiler? Can you find the model number of your boiler? That will help determine what you have.

You stated a part would be added to comply with the safety code. Do you know what part was added and how it regulates the water temperature?

It turns cold when the tub has about 2-3 inches of water. If you turn the tap off and back on again the water will return to hot.

When you turn off the faucet and turn it back on again, how long does the water flow until it turn cold again? Have tried doing this a second and third time and if so what happened?

If you call the boiler manufacturer they are likely to say you need to discuss the problem with the installer. This likely to be an installation problem which the installer either does not know or want to fix. Did the installer give you a warranty?

Oh man! I sympathize with missing having a hot bath! I think mike_home has hit the nail on the head.

I snagged this from online:
With hot water baseboard heating, a boiler heats water and sends it through pipes from heater to heater. Each unit takes a small amount of heat from the water and sends it on to the next heater. With a low end installation, this means the units that are further away from the boiler get less heat. Installing flow control valves will stabilize the heat in each room by forcing the earlier units to use less water, conserving heat for later in the system. These valves are also adjusted so smaller rooms and receive less heat than larger rooms. Talk to a contractor about these safety features and the possibility of their failure or disrepair.

The new boiler should have been plumbed in with a ‘Primary/Secondary’ piping configuration with zoning (zone valves, or circulators and controls) and DHW as the priority.

It’s not rocket science; any competent hydronic installer should have gotten this right from the start.

Post a pic(s) of the system, if you can.

IMPO

SR

Thanks for all of the input. In follow up the furnace guy came on yesterday. A very nice guy but when I started to relay the suggestions I received here I was told he was in the business 30 years and he knew what he was doing. I reminded him that it has been a year and the problem isn’t solved.
So he spent quite a bit of time here. He timed the rate of water flow. No issue there. Then he tested water in basement bathtub. That seemed OK and I had done that before anyway. From this he concluded that it was a plumbing issue not a furnace issue. As I see it the two are intertwined in this case.
Then he went upstairs and tested ( put his hand under running water ) water in tub. It seemed OK but I think we didn’t wait long enough for it to turn cold. Anyway he turned up the thing that controls water temperature both on the upper end and the lower end.
So this morning I had a bath. It was better but by the time I got to rinsing my hair( tub was about half full) I could put my hand directly under the running water with the hot water set on the hottest setting (tap over as far as it could go) and while the water was not as cold as it would have been previously it was just barely warm. So the problem has not been solved but at least it is now manageable.

It makes perfect sense to me to start at the tub and work backwards to solve the problem but he wouldn’t hear of it. He said that the only way to go about it is to start at the source which is the furnace. I still don’t buy it but what can I do?

Thanks again all of you I truly appreciate the help.

If he knew what he was doing he wouldn't have made you spend the money on changing the mixing valve in the bath tub faucet.

Don't wait - call him right back.

When he catches on that he can't walk away from the problem, he will fix it.

I hope they aren't charging you for this.

I don't care how he troubleshoots it- but guessing isn't acceptable.

When I am up against something like this, I come up with a reasonable theory, then test it. I also work either forwards or backwards to isolate a problem. Sometimes, if it's an intermittent problem, I have to use my recording meter so I can see how something behaves over time.

I let him know that it still isn’t working the way it should. I am also a bit concerned about the temperature being raised (to try to solve the problem) in the water because I’m wondering if that will just burn more oil unnecessarily?

I heard back from him ( again very nice guy) he said he was going to return to put in a bigger nozzle? but to be honest I have no faith in this heating system anymore. Now I find that the basement is not as warm as it was since the furnace was fiddled with yesterday even though the thermostat hasn’t been altered.

I will attach a picture of the furnace.

Raising the temperature and installing larger nozzles will burn more oil. It doesn’t look like much of anything was done to increase efficiency. The furnace looks more than a year old. I see what might be 3-zones but no circulators or zone valves.

Did you have natural gas available?

Ask what the percentage efficiency of this system is, what temperature the Leaving Hot Water is and whether there is an ‘Outdoor Temperature Reset’ incorporated into this design.

How hot are the flue gases exiting next to the expanded foam insulation?

Doesn’t look like a very good job to me – at all!

IMPO

SR

The furnace was replaced one year ago. Why do you think it looks older?
I think I heard him say the high end of temperature was 180 and I believe the low end set at 140. Does that make sense?
We do have 3 zones, one for each level.
Thanks for supplying good questions re efficiency to ask him.

We live on east coast of Canada. As far as I know no one heats their homes with gas although some people do have gas kitchen stoves.

I am not an expert but that vent is wrong and probably dangerous. I don't think that flex piping is rated to work with an oil fired boiler. In addition it needs a damper in order to allow proper up draft.

Is the vent connected to a chimney going up through the roof? What is that second small flexible vent pipe? I hope it is not connected to your clothes dryer!

I guess permits are not required where you live. If they were this installation would have never passed inspection.

Ok, it makes sense that you have an oil-fired boiler as you live in the Maritimes. How many square feet is your home, how many litres of oil per year and at what cost per litre? What does it cost per year to heat your home?

What type of radiators do you have, cast iron or aluminum fin?

Your furnace just looks like it might have been installed years ago.

SR

Not sure of square footage. I will try to find it on documents from when we bought the house. I think the dimensions are about 24 x24 , three finished floors.
Again not sure how many litres of oil , we paid $2300 in oil last year.
Baseboard radiator.
The furnace is new but the rest of the pipes are the same as were there when we bought the house.

The vent is not connected to a chimney.
I don’t know what the second flexible vent is but I don’t think it is the dryer. The dryer is vented out at the back of the house. The furnace at the side.

I'm not a plumber or a heating expert but something you said sparked my interest. You say that you have two bathtubs and the one in the basement gets plenty of hot water? I would suggest that you run the water upstairs and, when that water gets cold, go to the basement and see if that's also cold (leave the upstairs water on while you do this). If the basement tub water is hot, then there is nothing wrong with the boiler, except that perhaps there are multiple zones and there is an installation problem. I had a boiler installed in an outbuilding. The installer put in three zones, two for heating and one for DHW (Domestic Hot Water). Each zone has its own set of controls.

Re: mike­_home Et al

In the case of the PO the average cost to run a 5-ton Waterfurnace Series 7 in all but the most brutal conditions would probably be ~51¢/hr. That’s hardly more to heat the whole house and to heat most of their DHW than the cost to run one 2kW baseboard heater in a studio apartment!

Over capacity for cooling is no longer an issue as these systems are fully variable speed, blowers, compressors, flow centres and EEV’s. You can either size for cooling or full capacity heating without compromising effective cooling and dehumidification.

The colder the climate, the more of a Big Deal defrost cycles become.

Re: OP

I’m not confident the proposed Mitsubishi HP will integrate well with your existing oil boiler hydronic system. This sounds more like a good solution for the installer, perhaps not so much for you.

BTW: The proposed 3-ton Mitsubishi system has an EER rating of 12.5 and has an output of slightly more than 2-ton at 17˚F. This configuration might save some money but you will still be burning a lot of oil at a very low rate of efficiency if you don’t get to the meat of tackling your situation.

By contrast, the Waterfurnace Series 7 has an EER rating of as high as 53.2.

I still advise getting rid of the oil system completely, perhaps going completely all forced air and installing the most efficient system you can due to your high energy costs. Otherwise you’ll cringe for years to come opening your utility bills.

‘Buy once; cry once’!

IMPO

SR

Fsq4cw,

You said:

the average cost to run a 5-ton Waterfurnace Series 7 in all but the most brutal conditions would probably be ~51¢/hr.

Can you show how you calculate this operating cost?

The smaller flex pipe on the left is a fresh air inlet for combustion air. The bigger is the exhaust. I'm guessing the thing they are connected to is a double-walled pipe that provides both intake and exhaust. I see them around here for gas appliances. The flex pipe is most likely not aluminum (like a dryer vent) but stainless. And perhaps double-walled.