gardener123wewantsophie

Snowbirds: Are you staying or going?

Are you staying put or heading back north? Now? Later? Driving? Flying? Sheltering in place?

Comments (66)

  • Annie Deighnaugh

    Heard from my uncle last night...he's 91. He winters in Costa Rica and they are shutting down all international flights, so he will be there for the duration.

  • 3katz4me

    I just talked to some friends in FL. They are staying put in spite of their disgust that people are still partying even in their neighborhood. Big pool party at the community pool last night.

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  • mtnrdredux_gw

    OMG, I read this WAPO article about how year-rounders feel about people coming to live in their second homes. As I mentioned before, we thought about moving to our Maine house but I don't really think it makes any sense (we are on 10 acres here anyway). If I lived in NYC, though, you can bet i'd go to my Maine house.


    This sentence nearly made me scream "While those from out of town feel they have the right to use property that they own and pay taxes on, year-round residents worry that the new arrivals could be carrying the disease, and that local hospitals aren’t equipped to handle an outbreak


    Umm, yeah. SIlly us, we do feel that owning a home, and paying property taxes and excise tax and sales tax etc gives us a right to use it. Silly us! If you don't think it does, then how bout we only pay property tax when we are on site, ok? Let's be real, in many resort communities the year round real estate is, on average, paying far less in taxes than the second home real estate. Without second homes, many of these communities would be insolvent.


    Yes, you'd rather have empty homes and less people, but so would people stuck in NYC.

    When its nicer, we will probably head up to Maine, just like we would any other year. We will take the same precautions we do now. And so should anyone else.

  • lakeaffect

    We live in an area with many seasonal homes (we call them "camps"), and while it's still too cold to open up and live in a truly seasonal camp, if it's even half ass winterized, you can do it, and a few people are, a number I expect to jump as soon as spring gets rolling here in NNY. The summer people are wealthier and much more likely to get take out, use a lawn service, pay to have their camp opened, boat serviced, etc., we need them. I hope they follow all precautions and don't think that because we don't have confirmed cases here, that we don't have Covid-19, of course we do, we just aren't testing like they are in NYC.

  • maddielee

    I’m wondering if @beaglesdoitbetter was able to get home?

  • czarinalex

    Our permanent residence in northeast PA started out as a weekend home when we lived in NYC's northern suburbs. There are many, many weekend homes in our county. It is sad to see the vitriol aimed at weekenders on facebook. People are furious that people are using their second homes. "They are just coming here to buy our food and toilet paper", "hospitals should refuse to treat them". It's very sad.

  • mtnrdredux_gw

    Maddie I was wondering about Beagles too, don't think I've seen her post.


    There is always tension between year round and seasonal folks, because they share a town but have different needs and priorities. And both sides can be insensitive to the other. When we both worked in NYC and lived just outside the city in an urban area, one of the reasons we bought a NY state lake house was, in the back of our mind more than anything, to have it as an option if need be.


    Of course, with quarantine powers, government can do what it chooses I suppose. I'd imagine some city dwellers in say Rome did not have access to Lake District properties.

  • 3katz4me

    I was thinking as we left our lake place on Monday about whether or not we might get such a restrictive lockdown that we couldn't go back up there. I perused the food and other inventory there and wondered if I should bring any of it home. I decided not to. As long as we are allowed, and aren't sick, we will probably go every couple weeks for the change of scenery. If DH's company completely shuts down then we'd stay longer. He thinks golf is going to be allowed - he's a member of a club up there. I'm not so sure about that though it is easy to stay six feet apart and you're only touching your own stuff other than a cart which can easily be wiped down. As it is carts are now restricted to one rider at least in some areas. I heard a golf course some where raised the cup so no one reached in to get their ball - just hit the raised cup and call it done. We live on a PGA owned course and they are now out on the course getting it ready though I still have a small pile of snow in my yard.

  • ngcurt

    You know, I thought about reacting to this post earlier today and didn’t. But now I will. I live on cape cod but not on the islands. We love our tourists/second home owners. But...many of the second home owners on Nantucket are from the NYC or Boston area. If you live in NYC or go there for work, you have almost definitely been exposed, even if you’ve been careful and you aren’t showing symptoms. Nantucket’s hospital has 12 beds and 3 ventilators. No way can they take care of you. If you are there, please self quarantine. The ferries can’t get you to cape cod hospital, they are hardly running. And btw, the hospital is getting busier everyday.
    If you are thinking about going to other areas, think about what you may take with you and whether they can care for you or their own population. This isn’t about whether you pay taxes there, folks. It’s about being sensible and caring for your fellow man.

  • 3katz4me

    Dr Fauci and Dr Brix said anyone who has left NY must self quarantine for two weeks. They are alarmed at the potential virus spread by people leaving NY. All well and good but if they do end up critically ill in your area they will be in deep trouble.

  • mtnrdredux_gw

    We love our tourists/second home owners. But...many of the second home owners on Nantucket are from the NYC or Boston area. But...many of the second home owners on Nantucket are from the NYC or Boston area. If you live in NYC or go there for work, you have almost definitely been exposed, even if you’ve been careful and you aren’t showing symptoms. Nantucket’s hospital has 12 beds and 3 ventilators. No way can they take care of you. If you are there, please self quarantine. The ferries can’t get you to cape cod hospital, they are hardly running. And btw, the hospital is getting busier everyday.
    If you are thinking about going to other areas, think about what you may take with you and whether they can care for you or their own population. This isn’t about whether you pay taxes there, folks. It’s about being sensible and caring for your fellow man.


    I don't think we are asking to be loved. I think property rights are taken very, very seriously as they should be. Homeowners all have equal rights to their homes, period. People who complain about homeowners using their own homes; where does that stop? My house in CT is my primary home. The house behind me are snowbirds, they came home from Florida a few days ago. The people across the street from us live in NYC and come out on weekends. It never even occurred to me to think anything of their peregrinations or "right to be here" and how it might impact me. Come to think of it, I know a lot of NY'ers with second homes in Westchester County and Fairfield County; we are pretty much at the confluence of both. Next up, should I complain about various neighbors who work in NYC, and suggest they should stay in a hotel and not come home? Is that "caring for my fellow man" or just the ultimate NIMBY?


    Insofar as being sensible, I think the better word is strategic. I am not sure why people would go to Nantucket per se ... unless they bring their own ventilator over with them. But they sure have a right to do so at this time. By the same token, I would probably not move to my Maine house seeing as how I think beds per capita is higher here. But that is a choice, and a choice people have a right to make. Until and unless health authorities deem otherwise.


  • ngcurt

    Mtnrdredux_gw,
    I’m am not saying people don’t have the right to be there. Of course they do. And I don’t think you should complain. I’m just saying they should be cognizant/educated of the community they are going to, realistic about how much they’ve actually been able to protect themselves, and to consider others. I live near Boston, but I know a lot of people who live in areas of the country that, thankfully, have not been significantly impacted...yet. I also know people at high risk, my kids and grandkids were exposed before anyone was really paying attention.
    I ask that everyone conduct their lives as if you’ve been exposed, because reality is, you don’t know..and do you want to find out by being sick or making someone else sick?
    I applaud your decision re your Maine house. We’ve made the same about a northern Vermont house. I would stay away from your NYC neighbors tho.

  • mtnrdredux_gw

    We are staying away from all of neighbors. 100%. I don't care if they come from Manhattan or Montana! And I'm glad you don't think I should complain about my neighbors' whereabouts, LOL! I was being facetious.


    It's all on the same continuum. If Mainers can say "no summer people" why can't i say "no commuters!" or "no nurses and doctors!"


    It's that whole slippery slope thing.




  • ngcurt

    I agree. I have a niece who’s a phlebotomist who has to go to work. She has five kids. Another niece works for amazon, considered an essential service, she has two kids. Both single parents, both with no childcare right now. Piecing it together and making it work so the rest of us get what we need. I’m certainly thankful for them. I’m talking about people who have choices. Common sense really helpful now

  • mtnrdredux_gw

    No childcare - that's awful. It was awful in March of 2019, too, but we can really see how it's awful today.


    I just hope that people now see how interconnected we all are. I'm a proud card-carrying capitalist -- of the most reviled stripe -- and yet even I can see that you cannot have a civilization that is simply "survival of the fittest and tough luck if that ain't you." Argue the philosophy and ethics all you want, but it just makes us *all* too vulnerable when there are no real safety nets for our fellow Americans. Oh and it's the right thing to do. And apparently. when we need to, we can scare up $2trn from under a rock with a few days notice.

  • Kswl 2

    One of the best arguments I know for a decent social safety net that appeals to unrepentant capitalists (present company excepted) is that it allows those capitalists to live their lives without armed guards and sequestered in compounds with walls topped by razor wire. The wider the gap between haves and have nots the more firepower is needed to secure the safety (and property) of persons with means. This “bailout” will hopefully keep the fabric of our society intact through the pandemic. It is unquestionably the right thing to do, but it is also the most pragmatic.


    The question of standing on property rights wrt seasonal homes in medically underserved communities probably loses its appeal when the angry mob of locals shows up at the door. The veneer of civilization wears thin in times like these.

  • runninginplace

    I truly see both sides of this issue-I'm a former second home owner who now lives FT in my 'vacation' house.

    Of course an owner certainly has the *right* to use a property on which s/he pays taxes etc. However there is the meta issue of being a citizen of the greater community in this unique situation.

    For example, let me share the situation with the second home owners down the block from me who live in New Jersey, work in NYC and own this place in Florida, which they have not visited in 7+ years. The family travels a lot and has college age children who also travel extensively; one daughter returned 10 days ago from an abbreviated spring break trip to Spain.

    This week the whole family appeared and according to the man's mother (who does come down for spring getaways) they plan to stay here as long as possible, away from the dire situation where they live.

    Like many other vacation areas, the Florida Keys has no capacity to handle serious medical problems, so people are transported routinely to the mainland. And that's not even considering an overwhelming number of seriously ill people--23% of the 70,000 residents of this county are over 65 YO.

    So this family has come from the epicenter of contagion bringing along a member who just traveled from another epicenter. For them to possibly put everyone they come into contact with at risk in order to get away themselves...it's legal but it doesn't feel like it's a compassionate or caring attitude to take toward everyone else.

    Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

  • 3katz4me

    That's a good example running. Now of all times it would be good if people took time to stop to assess the big picture. However I think they're even less likely to do so right now. I think some people feel desperate and may make bad decisions in the name of self preservation.

    I hope the people who flee the NY epicenter will self quarantine or we are soon going to have new epicenters. I'm deeply concerned for FL - both because of the NY influx but also because steps weren't taken early on to shut things down to reduce the spread and I believe there is probably a larger population of higher risk people there. I have three good friends who live there - two year round and one six months only. My snowbird friends said they were staying "for now" a while back. I suspect that has something to do with their strategy to avoid paying MN income tax which could become the least of their concerns.

  • maddielee

    I’m glad that I don’t have to make that decision (to flee an area with so many cases). Because I can not say that I would not do everything possible to protect my family.


    eta: I would certainly self quarantine

  • mtnrdredux_gw

    I don't disagree that I would hope individuals would make sound decisions for themselves, and others. Without question that includes following all medical advice, including the 14-day quarantine now recommended for people leaving hotspots (not sure if that is just NYC or not)!

    Keep in mind, as I said, while I don't live in a resort community, several of my neighbors are not primary residents and of those that are, more than a few work in NYC. So I am on both sides of this, as a person who has an incremental increase in risk because of neighbors, and a person who will probably want to spend time in my second home in the next few months (for the same reasons I always spend time there.)

    What people are saying is, I don't want people around me who I believe have a higher likelihood of carrying COVID, because I don't want to get it and I also don't want them using up "my" hospital capacity. So let's be clear, the desire to keep second home owners out of a neighborhood is understandable, but it is motivated by selfishness, no? And yet we are wagging our finger at these second home owners and shaming them, saying they must think of the community, and not be selfish by removing themselves from a hotspot and decamping to a second home. (seems like a double standard in re selfishness to me). Also, is that really "your" hospital capacity? Aren't the town's amenities for all homeowners?

    I just always come back to the "slippery slope" concept. If we think the concept of limiting homeowners rights to protect ourselves is okay, then why can't I try to get the ER doctor who work in Bronxville off my street? Shouldn't he live elsewhere for the time being? And the Manhattan family across the way, who for 10 years has been here a few weekends a month and lives here most of the summer, you really begrudge them their home? Frankly, I am happy that so many NYC'ers I know have someplace to go ... I was even thinking of offering up my Maine house to any coworker who might need it.

    I understand ans appreciate that spreading virus is not good for anyone. But if I had to guess, the 2nd homeowner family, as a group, is probably more compliant with health directives than the average bear.


    PS I read the Obit yesterday for the playwright Terence O'Malley, who was gay. The obit talked about his experiences in the time of AIDS. There are difference of course, but just thinking back to all the shameful behavior of shunning gays and all they touched when AIDS transmission was not yet understood.

  • cmm1964

    I live in Florida and I’m not sure now true it is people are fleeing here. Certainly people can read the news and see there are numerous cases here as well so it is not a safe zone either. I have also heard New Yorkers are fleeing to the Catskills area. Don’t know whether this is true or not either. i Would think people would look at a map and flee to a place that is more remote with less infection rate.

  • 3katz4me

    From what I understand people are heading to their second/vacation homes wherever they may be. And at the moment anywhere would appear to be better than NY.

  • gardener123wewantsophie

    It's very interesting—and a little frightening—to see the evolution of this thread go from "staying put" to "fleeing"...

  • mtnrdredux_gw

    I think the "fleeing" is very much a NYC phenomenon. It does have a very high infection rate. The irony of course is that if you flee to somewhere with low population density, you are also feeling to somewhere with less beds. Which ends up being more important is a gamble.

  • cmm1964

    I would think one would put themselves at greater risk in the fleeing process be it driving or by plane. I’m not sure anyone wants to shelter in place for 14 days but it seems to me it would be safer. Everything is closed near me in FL besides the grocery stores and there is an uproar from most FL residents to reduce more non essential businesses. Beaches are closed and restaurants are only doing take out but every day a few more stop as it’s probably not been worth it. Our local government has asked residents to not offer their homes or co dos for rent at this time. I’m hoping the almighty buck doesn’t win on this issue.

  • 3katz4me

    Well we now have shelter in place order so we'll be sticking around the city home. If I had to pick I'd rather be here.

  • runninginplace

    Mtn, obviously this pandemic has caused a great deal of worry, panic and as someone else observed, brought out both the best and worst of society.

    I think there is also a slippery slope when the guiding principle is that because someone has enough resources to take actions to help themselves, it is ok regardless of how it affects the larger community. While understandable, is it a gesture of selfishness, as well as self-protection, during a pandemic involving a highly contagious and virulent disease to go from a place with (at this writing) 30,000 reported cases (NY) to a place with 2,000 cases (FL)?. Especially if that option is only available to those with enough resources to 1) travel easily and 2) own a place to which they can decamp? In other words if doing so can help, shouldn't everyone in NY be able to go to Florida to avoid getting sick? Or just folks who can afford to do so? That's another slippery slope for sure.

    Then too Governor Cuomo put a stay at home order in place in New York on March 20. So anyone departing after that is not in compliance anyway. Here's what he said about this exact topic recently: "This is not a war that can be won alone, which is why New York is partnering with our neighboring states to implement a uniform standard that not only keeps our people safe but also prevents 'state shopping' where residents of one state travel to another and vice versa," .

    While there are always tensions between locals and out-of-towners, I don't believe there's any implication that there should be a permanent policy to restrict anyone's ability to enjoy their properties. Once life settles down, Florida and other tourism-driven states will be throwing out the welcome mat again. Tourists keep this state functional, as demonstrated by our Republican governor's zeal to ignore health officials warnings to issue stay at home orders here. As a side note, even he is becoming alarmed and the dynamics in this state, and others, are clear enough that the New York Times has taken note.

    As for comparing the early days of the AIDS epidemic to asking people not to bop on down to their vacay homes to get out of corona-infected hot spots, again I'm not sure that is at all a valid comparison. The pandemic has certainly demonstrated how the virus spreads via person to person methods of transmission in the various epicenters through which it has traveled.

  • 3katz4me

    This morning in MN one of the counties that has a bunch of second homes (we call them cabins no matter how grand they may be) has issued a PSA asking that people not leave the metro to come north to their cabin. They only have a couple cases so far and they have limited hospital facilities - same story as many other areas. They also have a larger elderly population. I guess this came out today because tomorrow our shelter in place order takes effect and the local folks don't want the metro cabin owners sheltering in place at their lake cabins.

    If the ice and snow were gone I'd probably like to be at my lake cabin (in a different county). As it is I'm happy to be in the metro area. I'm filled with joy that the pond in our back yard is now ice free and the waterfowl have returned.

  • mtnrdredux_gw

    Running, I just don't think we going to come to agreement on this, which is ok. I am not a NY'er about to arrive down your block, so it's all pretty theoretical. : ) I feel strongly about this, but I get the controversy.


    First, I've said, and totally agree, that anything anyone does should be in compliance with health dept. directives, absolutely and unequivocally; totally agree on that point.

    I think there is also a slippery slope when the guiding principle is that because someone has enough resources to take actions to help themselves, it is ok regardless of how it affects the larger community. The amount of resources one has impacts their ability to help themselves ...always, in all situations. That is what the word "resources" means, in essence (and it's not just monetary, it's also influence, skills, networks). That is the system we live in, pandemic or no. Look at who gets tested if you want to get irate about resources! Also, there are plenty of people of quite modest means who decamp to modest Florida trailer homes by car ... is that ok? Is there a difference ?

    You can see where I stand on this by the comments I've already made ... which is that this epidemic lays bare how badly we need a better safety net in this country. Forget decamping ... what about the mere fact that people cannot afford treatment? That medical expenses are the single largest contributor to individual bankruptcy? What about the obliviousness of media saying "just work from home" when that is surely a class delimiter. Or "let's close the schools!" without providing daycare. What about the many people without sick pay? The provision of healthcare in this country is unconscionably inequitable in my view (and I think my track record on this is very clear here). If we want to talk about how wealth inequality shapes virus risk, we could write a tome. In that tome, the fact that some people own 2 homes and can benefit from that probably isn’t worth a footnote. To say that one is against people occupying their homes solely because the inequity strikes me as a red herring; since there are approx 1 zillion more significant inequities at play in this crisis that impact for more people.

    While understandable, is it a gesture of selfishness, as well as self-protection,

    But this very phrasing *also* describes the people who don't want their neighbors to show up to; don't you see, they are decrying selfishness when they are practicing "selfishness, as well as self-protection." Year rounders don't want neighbors to come if they perceive that those neighbors pose added risk to them and a strain on "their" healthcare system. That is selfish.

    I don't believe there's any implication that there should be a permanent policy to restrict anyone's ability to enjoy their properties. Well I would think not, since I think that would be against the Constitution.

    Once life settles down, Florida and other tourism-driven states will be throwing out the welcome mat again.

    Can you imagine someone telling you, "hey, once things settle down, you are allowed in your home." What would you say? Even the phrase "throwing out the welcome mat" implies that it is up to "you" to welcome "us;" the very phraseology is jarring. I don't need a welcome... I'm not a visitor, it is my home. If someone lives half time in one location and half in another, where is their home? Where are they interlopers?

    Tourists keep this state functional,

    Homeowners are not mere "tourists"! BTW, your hotels are still open, yes?

    As for comparing the early days of the AIDS epidemic Maybe I wasn't clear enough ... I came across the discussion in a COVID obit, and I thought it was interesting to remember all that. Obv it’s different as I said but I'd forgotten all about (or was too young to fully appreciate) a prior health panic, and it was interesting ... that's all.

  • Zalco/bring back Sophie!

    Well said, Mtn.

  • Feathers11

    As a Chicagoan, one thing I've learned quickly is the value of large urban areas in times like these, with leaders capable of getting the word out and demanding attention much more effectively than those in smaller areas. Our hotels are being set up as secondary places of quarantine, and our state national guard is here working toward this. We have greatly increased testing sites, and some of those are devoted strictly to our first responders and healthcare workers to ensure they remain safe. The mayor has taken swift action in terms of enforcing social distancing. When schools and healthcare workers say they need something, businesses react swiftly and creatively. Each day I turn on my local news, and companies are joining the fight to get much needed supplies to those who need them. More importantly, our governor has the ear of federal lawmakers.

    From what I'm following about Cuomo and de Blasio, similar things are happening in NYC.

    If an outbreak occurs on Nantucket or down in the Keys, I don't suspect resources and funding would make their way there so quickly. There's a reason those folks are fearful of outsiders coming in. Do you really think if an outbreak occurs in Nantucket and its 12-bed hospital becomes overrun with patients, that it will be able to withstand what a major urban hospital can do even with thousands more patients? Consider where Nantucket falls in the line-up of consideration for ventilators, for example. What local business and resources can shift manufacturing to help fill in the gaps? Does the mayor of Nantucket have a direct line to President Trump and the CDC?

    Just some thoughts for consideration.

  • runninginplace

    As often happens, people who express disagreement about one issue can find themselves in total harmony about many others. Mtn, this crisis absolutely exposes how shaky so much of our societal structures are, and indeed how steep the dividing lines often are for the Haves and the Have Nots...or Have Not Enoughs. Medical care, child care, housing, job security and so much more are far too linked to how much money you have or earn, not to mention if you hold a position of power or celebrity (special testing anyone?).


    As for being a homeowner v tourist, yes the hotels are now closed here. As for individual rights of course anyone has the right to go to a house they own, I"ll just repeat my previous thought; just because you can doesn't mean you should.


    And that's because as Feathers just expressed eloquently, selfishness isn't necessarily the term I'd use for a rural community (and believe it or not that is what Monroe county is classed as) desperately worried about the effect of a pandemic on a place with very limited medical resources, a single road in/out and a very high number of elderly residents.


  • 3katz4me

    I think it's safe to say that just about everyone right now - have, have not or have not enough - is deeply concerned for their safety and well being and will do what they think best to preserve it. Self preservation - it's human instinct. I don't think self preservation has ever been (or ever will be) a fair and equitable proposition.

  • mtnrdredux_gw

    Agreed. (ETA; Agreed, Running. I was replying to you when The Kat slid in before my post hit)

    Quick question; are Florida's hotels closed? Because in looking through our state's very long list of "essential businesses," under the category "infrastructure," I noted that our state listed "hotels." I had to think about it, but I suppose many of us think of hotels and think about vacations primarily, or even business travel, but hotels also include, alas, welfare hotels ... and hotels may be needed if groups of workers need to relocate (healthcare or pharma or whatever). It's just interesting to look at how each state defines things,

    PS Agree with you too, Katz. That is why, in normal times, leaders should appeal to our better angels to create a civilization that is, in fact, civilized. I'm wondering how border towns are going to handle allocating ventilators to undocumented workers, for example. I shudder to think.

  • Kswl 2

    If we owned a second home in Montana or Wyoming we would definitely be on our way there now but would have no illusions we’d be greeted with open arms by the natives. Discussions like these may be foreshadowing real life situations playing out over the next few months. I would be making as many provisions for personal security as for food security. The only thing I fear more than an unseen virus is an angry mob.

  • ngcurt

    I’ve kept quiet for a couple of days. In no way shape or form am I suggesting that “natives” would not love to have you there. We wish you could be, you drive our economy for sure. In some situations it’s not the best decision if you care about your fellow man. Stay home, wherever you are. You can be safe where you are unless you’ve already been exposed. If you choose to go, self isolate until the experts tell you it is safe to go out...and that includes grocery stores, where no matter what you do, it’s almost impossible to stay six feet apart. All the capitalist concerns, none of which am I discounting, will have to be dealt with later. But just because Lowe’s is open for essential services doesn’t mean you should go there to order new garage doors, which someone we know in a high incidence state recently did.

  • nekotish

    This post is scaring me. We only have a primary residence, and we are on acreage, so feel safe and are able to enjoy the outdoors. The subject of traveling from your primary residence brings up a lot of issues. If you are comfortable and provided for in your primary residence, please stay there. Just because you pay taxes and "have the right" to inhabit your vacation home does not negate the fact, that moving from place to place can spread the virus. Even if your state or province has not yet evoked "shelter in place", think about it, look to Italy, it is the sensible thing to do. We need to start thinking globally. Please.

  • jmm1837

    I live in Australia, but we do have snowbirds of a sort - people who live in the big city an hour away, but who have second homes where we are. Ours is an attractive area, and has always been a tourist destination, but also has a substantial resident population of around 170,000 spread along a stretch of coast. Inland is rural - farms, wineries, horse paddocks while the coast is a stretch of adjoining towns.

    To our surprise and dismay, we have just become a hotspot for Covid 19. The source? Some of our own Aussie snowbirds, who went on skiing holidays in Aspen, picked up the virus, were told to self isolate at home on their return but came down here and, in some cases, flouted self isolation instructions. So, the local population, many of them elderly, are now facing a heightened risk because of the mindless behaviour of people unconcerned about contributing, quite substantially it would seem, to the geographic spread of the virus.

    Anyone who at serious risk of having been exposed to the disease should be fighting it out where they are, not spreading it further. That is socially responsible behaviour.

  • mtnrdredux_gw

    I don't think you should be scared, at least on account of this group.


    It's a long thread and I could have missed it but I don't think anyone here is planning on decamping from a hotbed. It's really a theoretical discussion, impassioned though we may be about it.


    By the way, to be clear, people do not "have the right" to do anything that is contrary to health dept edicts, we all agree on that.



  • Feathers11

    Jmm1837, I hope you and your loved ones stay safe and healthy. The situation you describe is similar to what Runninginplace described above about the family who lived in NJ, worked in NYC, had a daughter come back from Spain... and traveled down to Florida to shelter there. Based on these details alone, they'ved blatantly violated CDC quarantine guidelines for overseas travelers--unless the daughter flew right into Florida and went directly to their second home.

    Perhaps the family, like others, believes it's doing what's best for themselves. But actions like that without considering public health and the greater good have far-reaching results.

    Because a few dismiss guidelines and believe they're the exceptions to the rules, we will be forced to have stricter rules in place with much stricter consequences in our future.

  • lynartist

    It’s impossible to expect that 330 million people will act responsibly and adhere to the regulations set forth. When fear takes over a good segment of the population will overreact; they are the ones sitting at home surrounded by tp and paper towels waiting for the world to end. We can only control our own actions. We are quite comfortable here in Fla; the weather is just beautiful and as long as we keep a safe distance we wave to the neighbors walking by. There are not too many cases in our city as yet but I’m sure that could change quickly. Everyone seems pretty calm and most people are just staying in. Wouldn’t even think of going to our vacation home in RI( yikes it’s March!) I remember March in RI😂‼️

  • mtnrdredux_gw

    JMM, Question ... what if you went on a ski holiday and fell ill? Would it be ok for you to come home?


    (PS as always agree that no one should violate health dept edicts)

  • Feathers11

    Mtn, not to butt in or answer for another, but I didn't interpret Jmm's explanation of what occurred as a statement of belief that people shouldn't be allowed to come home from holiday. I took it as, they should come home and follow the self-isolation guidelines. Not arrive at one home, pack up and leave, and travel to a second home. The act of traveling between homes violates the quarantine guidelines.

  • mtnrdredux_gw

    No, I didn't either. It's a separate question, of the "slippery slope" variety.

  • jmm1837

    I think that, if I were diagnosed with the virus away from home, I'd do a Tom Hanks and rely on local hospitals/self isolation until I was cleared.

  • jmm1837

    Sorry, I should probably apologize for my vehemence, but the way so many people are taking this situation so casually with not a thought of the real consequences to others is getting my goat. When did we become so uncaring?

  • arcy_gw

    Just remember these discussions are EXACTLY why China bolted people inside their homes!! We in the colder climates live this same sort of selfish decisions every-time there is a blizzard warning. Everyone decided they are free to interpret the request to HUNKER DOWN in their own way..and in the end ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS some rescue worker has to put their life on the line to fix what should never have been broken. That is the #1 lesson I hope we learn about each other. WE have become a nation of selfish DO WHAT I WANT ALL THE TIME people. It's not working for us!!!

  • lynartist

    Hmmm... bolting people in their homes is not what we as a country are about😓

  • btydrvn

    Not having read other opinions we are in palms springs for the winter ..our home is in a northern california location that can be reached in one days long drive.....we have elected to stay in place an extra month ..as our home is rural...and access to everything is less convenient than where we are...plus any unforeseen complications on the return trip are worth avoiding ....

  • mtnrdredux_gw

    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/29/world/europe/rich-coronavirus-second-homes.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage


    Not to poke a sleeping dog, but when i saw this article, I had to post it here to round out our discussion. The same the world over. Except they manage to make Parisians sound even worse than New Yorkers.

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